Greasing rear wheels

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Emmo213
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Greasing rear wheels

Post by Emmo213 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:08 pm

Hi all. About 3 weeks ago a bought a 1919 touring, my first T (also my first old car) so I've been trying to learn the ropes on driving and maintenance. I was recently watching Mitch Taylor's video on lubrication and figured that since I don't know how often the previous owner lubricated everything (although it seems pretty often) that I should just go through and lube everything. Took off the front hubcaps, everything looked as I expected with plenty of grease so I moved to the rear. Took those hubcaps off and was met with the below picture. Is there something I should be lubricating here?

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by twrenn » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:13 pm

You will find a grease cup at the ends of the rear axle near each wheel for greasing those bearings. It may take quite a bit..who knows!
I prefer to put on a grease zerc and pump grease in with a modern grease gun, also jack each wheel up and spin them while greasing, for better grease distribution. I find about 6 -8 pumps should do it. You dont want to over grease and push grease out the outer seals.

They also sell grease cups with built in zercs.which I highly recommend. Good luck and congrats on your new T.

Lots of people will be chiming in with all sorts of advice here too!

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by twrenn » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:16 pm

One thing I failed to mention...if you're not aware of it you will need a special rear wheel hub puller in order to get the rear wheels off. You may have a model T friend nearby with one or I would advise just buying one from any vendor, as you will need it more than you think!

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by twrenn » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:17 pm

Good grief I see you're practically a neighbor! Im about a 40 minute drive west of you! Ill drop you an email. I shoulda looked at your profile first!

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:32 pm

Hi Brian, about the same distance the other way from me. :D
As Tim said, no grease under rear hubcaps. That's a taper/keyed axle to hub connection. Needs to be "good n tight". About an inch or so from the backing plates is the grease cup.
My car however has sealed bearings and the cups are not there and capped off.
Hope to see you around fellow Buckeye, Dave

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by George House » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:50 pm

You’ll be dealing with the Model T vendors a lot. I’d recommend you order a Model T Lubrication Chart. Driving a 100 year old Ford is super fun but, lubrication wise, they’re maintenance significant. Many a ‘newby’ has exploded a U joint by lack of attention to it. Yeah; congrats on buying a T !!
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:54 pm

Brian

welcome to the affliction!

Simply looking at the cotter pin leads me to believe the previous owner cared for his car and was careful in it's assembly. Hopefully you'll find the rest of the car as lovingly well maintained.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Emmo213 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:52 am

Thanks for the responses guys! I've seen a few charts and have been using the one below but maybe I'll start using a different one.

@George House - my u joint already has a zerk on it which is nice. I put about 150 pumps in but the grease didn't squeeze out yet so I'll keep filling it until it does.


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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:00 pm

On that chart posted by Emmo, I don't see any reference to the rear wheel bearings!
After assembly they should be completely filled with grease. I think about every 500 miles you should put in a grease cup or two or a couple squirts of you have zerk, but don't over pack or you will get grease on the brakes.
Norm

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by George House » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:35 pm

Just finished greasing the rear axle bearings on my ‘14 and ‘19. Been using zerks for a long time but, thanks to Tim’s tip, I jacked up each axle and spun it while pumping in 5 pumps.
Now back to that rear axle nut: many a National Tour and annual vacation has been ruined by a broken axle. And most, not all, broken axles occur at the tapered keyway. After putting some miles on a rebuilt rear end or when purchasing a Model T; it’s a good idea to check the tightness of that axle nut. Some folks even know a good torque value for it. A few years ago I was preparing a T for an annual tour and to my astonishment gained 4 ‘castellations’ by tightening that nut. Tighten the snot out of it !!
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Original Smith » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:55 am

There is no place on the rear wheels for lubrication. You should have felts on the inside of the hub to keep grease out!


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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by jab35 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:31 pm

A recent post recommended rear axle hub nut torque of 70 ft-lb and 'pulling to next castellation' for the cotter key. I'd also recheck the torque after you drive a few hundred miles. FWIW, jb


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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:08 pm

I never grease the rear wheels, it makes the dust stick to them :| . Ill be here all week folks! :D

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Oldav8tor » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Depending upon what was done the last time your rear wheels were off, you either have a metal cap over a felt washer on the end of the axle tube or a more modern neoprene seal. In either event, there is also a felt washer that goes between the wheel hub and the cap. Without pulling the hyatt bearing out you won't know whether the inner seal is the original leather or the more modern neoprene. When I rebuilt my rear end I went with modern seals all around.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:21 pm

...you won't know whether the inner seal is the original leather or the more modern neoprene.

In my book, Tim did exactly the right thing. The old seals had steel fingers to push the leather against the axle shaft. Those fingers have been known to cut into a shaft and cause it to break. When that happens it's very disappointing.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Emmo213 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:22 am

Sounds like I should probably pull the wheels and see what's under there. That may be a winter project though.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by twrenn » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:59 am

Brian, it's not that hard of a project really. I don't think I'd wait til winter. Granted, sometimes the old leather seals are a pain to get out, but it can be done usually in less than an hour. The modern Neoprene seals are the way to go. Make sure the "lip" inside the tube is nice and clean..I use copious amounts of lacqer thinner spritzed in there, wipe down, wipe again with a rag soaked in L. thinner, then on the outer lip of the seal run a bead of black oil resistant RTV seal also. Push it in, put your now freshly grease packed bearing(s) in, leave overnight for the RTV to cure.

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Oldav8tor » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:37 am

Don't forget the rear axle sleeves have to come out which usually require a special puller - I bet your "neighbors" have one. Check the sleeve's condition and replace if needed. Clean up the hyatts and give them a good looking over. Check the diameter of the rollers to be sure they're not too worn. There is a lot of information on the process if you do a google search....this has all been discussed many times before.

I'm a newbie and went thru all this not long ago. It truly isn't that big a deal unless there is a part shortage. I've learned that by calling around you can usually find what you need. Just always remember to ask whether a particular item is in stock before you place an order :D
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Emmo213 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:09 pm

Tim, well you did recommend I get a wheel puller. Looks like I might as well get one earlier rather than later, and add in a sleeve puller at the same time. Before you know it I'm going to put the kids from Lang's through college, lol.

In the meantime I did email the previous owner to see if he knew what kind of seals were used and I've lubed everything hopefully correctly. There's a small 3 mile parade this weekend I'm hoping to participate in.

Edit: the seals are leather and were replaced about 10 years ago.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Altair » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:54 pm

Rear end assemblies have come through the times with many opinions as to "how I do it"
I reviewed about 6 manuals, lubrication charts, Clymers and Dykes and it is hard to find two the same. I could not find any reference to the rear bearing grease cups nor any maintenance schedule for them.
One manual says the housing is to be filled with 1.5 lbs of grease, another says 2 lbs. One chart says
re-fill the housing every 1000 miles while another says every 600 miles, however the original amount was only 1.5 - 2 lbs of #2 grease?
All the parts book appear to be consistent with the required parts, axle, axle sleeve, roller bearing, washer, felt and cap.

Over the years many members have changed over to various grades and weights of oils and have modified the means to retain the oil, some were successful and some were not as many still leak.

With the factory components assembled at the outer rear axles, oil will leak out therefore many have modified the assemblies with various seals and procedures. There is always some that have "never had a problem".
My opinion with the rear axle outer bearings is to moderately coat with grease at assembly and turn the grease cup one turn about two times a year or a predetermined mileage and refill the grease cup as required. The grease will not get consumed or run out therefore minimal maintenance is required.


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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by It's Bill » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:06 am

Hi Brian, I am coming back to Amherst in August for my 50th anniversary Marion L. Steele High School class reunion. I may have an extra sleeve puller to give you if I can find it. PM me with your contact info and I will look.

I agree that with the modern seals maintenance is cut to a minimum. I rebuilt my car's rear end with new axles, hubs, modern seals, sleeves, NOS bearings, and the rest, sealed it up with Ultra Black, and it has not leaked a single drop yet. You can easily burst a seal if you force more grease into a full bearing!

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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Oldav8tor » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:38 am

I second what "it's Bill" had to say about over filling the rear outer bearing cavity. I installed new neoprene inner and outer seals and greased the hyatts really well before putting them in. I then replaced the twisty cup greaser temporarily with a zerk and pumped more grease in while turning the axle. The wheel wasn't on and as I watched, the outer seal cup moved out a bit with each pump. I took the zerk out and grease came out the hole like a squeezed toothpaste tube! Using a rubber mallet I tapped the seal cup back in place and let the excess grease squeeze out. With modern seals it's almost like having a sealed bearing as the seals are so good the excess grease can't easily escape. My advice - [1] be careful not to add too much grease when servicing and [2] if the grease starts looking dark, it may be a good time to pull the wheels and repack the hyatt bearings. Perhaps forum members with more experience can suggest a good mileage interval at which to repack.
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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by DickC » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:09 am

I think it is great to address the wheel bearings but with every "new T" I've bought, I inspect the rear end "pumpkin". I didn't once and realized that the thrust washers were not replaced and the babbit was broken and about ready to leave. Always inspect the pumpkin unless you know who had the car and exactly what had been done. Just my 2 cents.


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Re: Greasing rear wheels

Post by Emmo213 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:27 am

Thankfully the previous owner changed the thrust washer to bronze.
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