Radiator /water pump

[Oldrusty26]

Not to open a fresh can of worms on an old subject ( I’m going to anyhow ) I’ve ordered a new flat tube radiator for my roadster pick up from brass works , my engine currently has a water pump , question is , will the water pump restrict the cooling capabilities of the new radiator and should I remove it , or would it be ok to just leave it on ? I realize that they are not needed , but will it hurt anything to be left alone ?
Thanks in advance !!

[AndyClary]

If you have a good radiator you won’t need the water pump any more.


Andy

[speedytinc]

Maybe. Depends on the water pump. I would remove the pump. My bias.
I might suggest you install the new radiator & run it with the pump. If you have a hint of not cooling as it should, remove the pump out of necessity.

[TRDxB2]

I seriously doubt if your water pump would restrict flow, after all they were supposed to help. So did yours help or is it the reason to get a new radiator? If you don't need it consider it as a possible point of failure, broken belt would cause some restriction. Model T design > "keep it simple"

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

If the pump is in good shape and doing its job, it probably wouldn't hurt to leave it on. I have found that they're a good "ice breaker" and a great way to start conversations with new people.

Some may suggest adding a thermostat, which I personally would never do. But, that's just me...

[TXGOAT2]

The pump is not needed with a good radiator. If you choose to keep using it, be sure the packing does not leak air in when the engine is running at higher speeds. Water pumps are capable of leaking air into the coolant when the engine is running, yet not leak when it is stopped. Aerated coolant can lead to rapid corrosion,steam pockets, and false boilovers. A water pump needs good bearings and good packing running on a good shaft to work properly. I'd want a thermostat on any T running a waterpump. Over cooling is bad for engines. If you don't choose to run the water pump, sell it, don't throw it away. They are a useful accessory for some applications.

[TXGOAT2]

A water pump defeats the temperature regulation inherent with a thermosyphon system. Overcooling can result, which causes a number of issues. A properly fitted thermostat used with a water pump will prevent overcooling, cavitation, coolant aeration, and coolant loss at the overflow pipe. Overcooling contributes to carbon formation, sludge formation, plug fouling, and poor fuel economy.

[Oldrusty26]

Went through several radiators in my hoard , they all leaked in one way or another , my recently deceased father was insistent that we put a water pump on , so he rebuilt it ( he was a machinist and mechanic ) and installed it on the vehicle . Never really drove it any length of time , so once I started putting it back together , I left the pump on , just ordered a new radiator and will take it off if it will hurt anything , but would like to leave it on because my dad had rebuilt it , if that makes any sense ,

[Norman Kling]

If your block, head and radiator are clean of rust and other dirt, you do not need a water pump. Where we live we have hard water which leaves deposits. So I use 50 50 antifreeze all year around and if I need to add some, I use distilled water. Of course, that depends on where you live and the temperature. You might need more anti freeze. I use the green stuff.Anyway, if everything is clean If all else is in good condition, a water pump is just something which can leak and drain your cooling system.
Norm

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

... but would like to leave it on because my dad had rebuilt it , if that makes any sense ,

That makes complete sense, my friend. I leave mine on as well...

[TXGOAT2]

To sum up, a water pump in good condition will do no harm. I would use a 180F thermostat with a 1/8" bypass hole. Another consideration: A water pump would allow use of a hot water heater, provided you have a generator and battery.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Travis,
Makes all the sense in the world if your dad rebuilt it and insisted it be on by all means run it for that reason. Most water pumps for Ts are no
more than a water circulators & should not impair cooling. If it circulates water to fast as in pushes water out the overflow just cut the impeller
down. Keep in mind the packing needs to be watched & adjusted from time to time as with greasing the bushing/s. I think honoring your dad is
is way more important than Henry Ford wishes.
Craig.

[TXGOAT2]

Henry Ford used water pumps whenever there was a practical need. Starting with the 1928 Model A, every Ford had a water pump. In 1932, Ford introduced a V8, and every one of them had TWO water pumps! All Ford V8s through 1953 had two water pumps.

[TXGOAT2]

A comparison of specific HP output:

Model T: 0.11 hp per cubic inch displacement (No water pump)
Model A: 0.20 HP per cubic inch displacement (Water pump)
1938 V8: 0.38 HP per cubic inch displacement (Dual water pumps)

Ford, and most everyone else, installed water pumps as specific output increased.
In the case of some tractor engines, where size and weight weren't so important, water pumps were not used, and the designers relied on large radiators, fans, and high capacity water jackets to control heat. Some early tractors, like the Farmall Regular and 2 cylinder John Deeres, used an overhead valve engine. OHV engines generally put less heat into the head and block than do comparable L head designs of similar displacement and output. Many early tractors were designed to burn kerosene, and it was advantageous to have the engine run as close to the boiling point as was practical.

[Les Schubert]

Please note that the Ford N R S all had water pumps!!

[Wayne Sheldon]

A couple points of clarification.
MOST water pumps intended for use in a model T won't hurt the function in any significant sense, as long as it is in good condition, functioning properly, and doesn't leak.

However, some poorly designed pumps can restrict flow badly enough that even with the best radiator you can get the car will not cool adequately. I have a couple that are so restrictive I would NEVER consider using them. A few were made to leave room on the side of the engine for things like magnetos or early after-market starter/generators. Some of those are also too restrictive. Some of the ones that mount on the front of the head don't work well, but may or may not restrict water flow.

If it is one of the typical common types that mounts on the left side of the block going straight into the water inlet on the side of the block? It is "probably" okay to use.

With a caveat.

The thermosyphon cooling is an amazing, and simple, efficient, system. The wonderous thing about it, is that the more cooling that is needed? The faster the water flows.
What almost any added water pump can do, is restrict the water flow when the engine needs the cooling the most.
Consider this. Driving a heavily loaded model T, maybe on a tour or by yourself. It is a hot day, you are doing under 25 mph going up a steady climb a couple miles long.
The engine is turning slow, which means the water pump is turning slow. The load and the ambient temperature has the engine working hard and generating a lot of heat. Without a water pump, the thermosyphon would have the water flowing as fast as the cooling system's restrictions can allow! However, the slow turning water pump restricts the faster flowing of the water just when you need it the most.

Just something to think about.

[love2T's]

Not to open a fresh can of worms on an old subject ( I’m going to anyhow ) I’ve ordered a new flat tube radiator for my roadster pick up from brass works , my engine currently has a water pump , question is , will the water pump restrict the cooling capabilities of the new radiator and should I remove it , or would it be ok to just leave it on ? I realize that they are not needed , but will it hurt anything to be left alone ?
Thanks in advance !!

Get rid of it. You will NOT need it. Only possible potential problem would be if the little water passages in the block and/or head are plugged up. You can get an idea of the condition of the head at least by peeking down the outlet while the radiator is off. Flat tube rads are extremely efficient. My '26 Fordor still even has it's original round tube rad that I had it boiled out during a minor repair and wow I can't believe how much better even IT works now. Can run 90 degree days with the moto-meter staying below the "open circle". And yes, the '13 has a flat tube from B.W., and it never even gets close to the "circle" on a 90 degree day. 70 Degree weather the "red stuff" barely makes it to the first line of tiny words that you can't read from 2 feet away

[Art M]

Keep the water pump. It will be appreciated later in life.
My car 1923 touring car has the original round tube radiator and a water pump. It has the original radiator because of the pump and not the other way around. The radiator cools just fine without the pump, but I continue to keep it. The pump reduces the hot spots and the crude caused by the hot spots. I know I will never convince others. Just keep in mind that pumps were originally used on model T's. The elimination reduced cost and the heating engineer probably got a big bonus. Plus, Henry was able to sell more radiators in the future.

Art Mirtes

[TXGOAT2]

The type of pump that mounts on the side of the engine and pushes water into the inlet on the side of the block is best. A good pump will have a round body, or volute about 4" in diameter, and it will have a small diameter pulley to get good impeller speed. A water pump added to a Model T ought to be combined with a thermostat on the water outlet hose to prevent overcooling, faster warmup, and to prevent cavitation and overloading the radiator upper tank at higher speeds. A 1/8" bypass hole in the thermostat is a very good idea. It will allow some limited circulation when the thermostat is closed, and it will allow air to escape when filling the system with coolant when the thermostat is closed. The thermosyphon system depends on a very free-flowing cooling system to function as it should.

A water pump might be of considerable benefit on a car operated at high altitudes. At higher altitudes, radiator effectiveness is reduced, and lower atmospheric pressure lowers the boiling point of the coolant. A good water pump and thermostat can offset these problems. While an automotive radiator does radiate heat, it is actually a heat exchanger, and it depends on a high volume of air moving through the core to cool the engine. Thin, high altitude air is not a very effective medium for extracting heat from the radiator core.

[TXGOAT2]

Model Ts with significant performance enhancements will push the limits of the stock cooling system under many conditions. A good water pump and thermostat will enhance the cooling system performance to accommodate the increased cooling demand while retaining the stock radiator.

[Steve Jelf]

My thousands of miles driving a 1915 runabout have been in the mostly near-flat center of the USA. East of Wheeling or west of Denver, would it have been different? Dunno. In all those years, my recored 1915 radiator never hinted that I should install a water pump. But in this case, where a pump is already in place, my suggestion is to leave it in place experimentally. If it never presents a problem, that's no problem. You can leave it. If it becomes problematic, you can ditch it.

[TXGOAT2]

I suspect that most water pumps installed on Model Ts served the purpose of preventing the radiator from freezing when driving the car with plain water in the cooling system during freezing weather. In sub-freezing weather, the radiator could freeze solid when driving down the road, even as the engine overheated. A water pump kept the radiator from freezing while driving by keeping the water in constant circulation, which the thermosyphon alone would not do.
Good antifreeze was unavailable during the early years of motoring, and many people drained the system whenever they stopped the car for any length of time, and refilled it with warm water, if they had any, when they wanted to use the car. When stopping away from home in freezing weather, they'd put a blanket over the hood and radiator to keep heat in for an hour or so, hoping to prevent freezing. Another good application for a water pump would be a TT running loaded in hot weather or a car in high altitude service.