Water in the Oil

[John_Aldrich]

NOT good.
Pulled the engine to put a rebuilt transmission on.

Put the car back together and when I checked the oil prior to starting the car it had oil in it (I installed a dipstick years ago).

Changed the oil and pulled the head thinking I had a blown head gasket. Replaced the head gasket (didn't really look bad) and reassembled.

Started the car and it started fine although I got blue smoke out of the exhaust initially. Not sure why. The longer the car ran the worse it would run (maybe 3 minutes long)

Head bolts are tight and has a new gasket. All I can think of is a cracked block.

Anyone have another idea?

[JTT3]

Just spitballing here.
Any chance tightening the head bolts you went into the jacket?
Have you ever decked the block & head?
Any freeze plug leaking water into the valve gallery?
Crack running from valve sleeve to cylinder or a crack in the cylinder wall?
Crack in the head on gasket side

[TXGOAT2]

100% fresh gasoline? Did the engine run well before the work? How much water in the oil? Did it run with water in the oil? Plain water or water and antifreeze? Could be a a gasket issue, a crack, or condensation if the amount was small. Is there any chance that washing the powerplant prior to the work could have gotten water in it? T engines aren't water tight.

I'd recheck for water at the drain plug, and pull the plugs and look for any evidence of moisture. If none is evident, I'd run the engine to operating temperature and look for bubbles in the radiator tank and any evidence of excessive steam at the exhaust or at the oil fill cap.

[Mike Silbert]

Perform a leak down test and check for air out the radiator to test the head gasket seal.
Or look for radiator bubbles when running.
This will give the answer or rule it out.
Now it might only leak when warmed up.
A leak down test will tell other things besides head gasket condition also.

It is difficult and risky to pressurize the radiator and look inside for drips.
Look for green drips up inside the bottom of the engine with the inspection cover off.
Mike

[Joe Bell]

Is it a 26-7 block? real problem cracks in the valve chamber between 2+3 cylinder going from main bolt to soft plug, i have pitched many blocks from this problem. take valve cover off and look up or use a mirror to see if rust is there or a crack.

[TXGOAT2]

How much water was in the oil? Was a significant amount of water missing from the radiator?

[John_Aldrich]

Just spitballing here.
Any chance tightening the head bolts you went into the jacket?
Have you ever decked the block & head?
Any freeze plug leaking water into the valve gallery?
Crack running from valve sleeve to cylinder or a crack in the cylinder wall?
Crack in the head on gasket side

Appreciate all the feed back.

How much water in the oil? The short time I ran it the water turned the new oil milky so it's getting there fast.

I'll start checking for cracks and yes, it's a 1927 block on a Canadian built car.

Z head never decked. Don't know if the block has been decked.

Engine ran well prior to repair. I did remove the distributor and went back to coils.

[TXGOAT2]

Fresh oil will turn milky very quickly after start-up with even a small amount of water present. In cold weather, oil can turn milky after start up with NO free water present, due to water vapor normally released during the combustion process.
You may have a problem, or you may not. In colder weather, it's common for white moisture slime to form inside valve covers and oil filler caps on engines that have not reached full operating temperature and run for a period of time to drive off the moisture. In cold weather, some engines will accumulate condensate inside valve covers and oil filler pipes and road draft pipes even after being driven for miles.

Every gallon of gasoline burned releases about 3 gallons of water. Most of it goes out the exhaust as steam or condensate, but some of it gets past the rings and then it condenses in the crankcase and any other place inside the engine that is not hot enough to prevent it. This effect is more pronounced in damp weather. In engines that are not driven for miles in cooler weather once started, a considerable amount of water can accumulate in the crank case. Model T engines don't have the best crank case ventilation, and they can, under short trip driving in cooler weather, accumulate a substantial amount of moisture and even free water in the crankcase. On place that is very vulnerable to moisture accumulation is an accessory dipstick, which will stay much cooler than the rest of the engine, and thus condense moisture on the dipstick and inside the dipstick tube.

[John_Aldrich]

Fresh oil will turn milky very quickly after start-up with even a small amount of water present. In cold weather, oil can turn milky after start up with NO free water present, due to water vapor normally released during the combustion process.
You may have a problem, or you may not. In colder weather, it's common for white moisture slime to form inside valve covers and oil filler caps on engines that have not reached full operating temperature and run for a period of time to drive off the moisture. In cold weather, some engines will accumulate condensate inside valve covers and oil filler pipes and road draft pipes even after being driven for miles.

Every gallon of gasoline burned releases about 3 gallons of water. Most of it goes out the exhaust as steam or condensate, but some of it gets past the rings and then it condenses in the crankcase and any other place inside the engine that is not hot enough to prevent it. This effect is more pronounced in damp weather. In engines that are not driven for miles in cooler weather once started, a considerable amount of water can accumulate in the crank case. Model T engines don't have the best crank case ventilation, and they can, under short trip driving in cooler weather, accumulate a substantial amount of moisture and even free water in the crankcase. On place that is very vulnerable to moisture accumulation is an accessory dipstick, which will stay much cooler than the rest of the engine, and thus condense moisture on the dipstick and inside the dipstick tube.

Very interesting. Once I get a heli coil in this newly stripped head bolt I'll reassemble and try to see if I can "burn" the water out!
I live in a very humid and "wet" area of Washington state with a year round creek in my backyard.

[TXGOAT2]

I'd raise the front of the car about 8 to 10 inches, then drain the oil into a clean container and look for any free water. If there's very little or none, and NO evidence of antifreeze, I'd put the oil back in the engine, reserving and discarding any free water. But if the oil is very milky or visibly water cut, I'd replace it. If it's slightly milky, it isn't likely to do any harm. It's important to drive the car for at least ten miles on the open road, and more is better. 20 t0 40 miles at 30 MPH or so would be nice. It takes a while for the engine, transmission and the oil to fully warm up, and once warm (hot, actually) the engine needs to run for a while to allow time for the moisture to be driven out. Be watchful for any sign of water leaking from the radiator. It's best not to start a car unless you are going to drive it ten miles or more, and more is better. That's especially true in cool humid weather.

[TXGOAT2]

Z head? Aluminum heads require a specific torquing procedure and several re-torques. Stock head bolts may not be the right length for a Z head, and bolt heads must have steel washers under them when used with an aluminum head. The aluminum head is a different animal than the stock cast iron head.

[John_Aldrich]

Z head? Aluminum heads require a specific torquing procedure and several re-torques. Stock head bolts may not be the right length for a Z head, and bolt heads must have steel washers under them when used with an aluminum head. The aluminum head is a different animal than the stock cast iron head.

I agree. I run them on all my T's and do exactly as you have said about the sequence and washers. I normally torque to 50 ft lbs but I'm stripping head bolts this time for some reason. Tried another (less expensive) torque wrench with the same results.

[TXGOAT2]

Are the bolts too short? It's important that they aren't too long, but too short is also verboten A bolt without enough reach to engage most of the threads is likely to strip threads in the block. There are some detailed discussion threads on head bolt issues. The Z head may require longer than stock bolts. Some old blocks have corroded or worn threads, or debris packed in the bottom of the bolt holes.

[Scott_Conger]

Easy does it, John. Torqueing a "T" head to 50# successfully without stripping a thread is simply pure luck and doing it over and over again on each head bolt really ups the odds of failure. 45 is pushing it and 50 is murder on the threads. FORD cast iron is soft stuff, especially the earliest cars, and 100 years later, the threads are no stronger than when new and modern torque values for new, modern materials doesn't translate safely to very old and well-seasoned parts. Torque wrenches and torque charts simply don't apply to our cars and attempting to force them to work together will frequently result in damage as you've discovered.

For head bolts, a standard issue 9-10" long cylinder head wrench and "pull tight" is enough. And if it isn't enough, you do it again. FWIW, every single factory wrench was JUST long enough that a 160# man working all day long pulling that wrench "tight" was enough torque for whatever nut/bolt it was assigned to.

Unfortunately "torqueing" things on a "T" will be a thing until every single hole in every single car has a helicoil in it. Then after that, we will begin tearing helicoils out. Facebook will see to that even if every single Forum Member sees the light.

hopefully that bad thread isn't located in the very back and is easy to get to! Good luck

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

A friend of mine had repeated problems with coolant in the oil. After 3 new head gaskets, and having the Z head re-decked, it was finally discovered that there was a crack in the Z head. It was only found by doing a pressure test on it. I did one of the head gasket replacements. I very closely visually examined the head before re-installing it and could not any defects whatsoever... but it was there. Three days later, coolant was low, oil level was high and looked like chocolate milk.