1916 Coupelet Frame Measurements

[KMcoldcars]

I decided to paint the fenders, running boards and splash aprons of my coupelet this winter to give me something to do. I have taken measurements of the frame and running board and fender irons and want opinions on what I should do. All measurements were to the ground.
The front of the car measurements were taken where the radiator sits on the frame.
The frame measurements at the running board brackets were the bottom of the frame to the ground. Is the frame straight enough to not cause problems?
The running board brackets and fender irons are measured at the top of the brackets. It looks like I will need to do some bending there. Should it be done cold or should I use a torch to heat it.
The front of the frame appears to be level. The drivers side is about 1/4 inch lower than the passenger side. Should I look at where the rear spring goes into the frame.
I am not interested in taking the body off the frame. I am 83 years old, with a back that only hurts when I am standing or walking.
I appreciate all the help I will get.

[TXGOAT2]

That's all pretty close. The springs themselves can be a little off, and how evenly tightened the spring to frame clamps are can affect how the car sits. Most concrete is not very flat, so measuring from points on the vehicle to a concrete surface or blacktop or a wood floor is not very reliable for accurate measurements. I think most automotive frame and body measurements are considered "commercially perfect" if they are within 1/4" of spec, or of identical opposite points on the frame or body. Some vehicle specifications allow more tolerance than that. Shimming mounting points by up to 1/8" for alignment is standard practice. I've seen factory shim stacks much thicker than that.

[TXGOAT2]

Body sheet metal is not very uniform when new.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Most model Ts have a slight lean to the driver's side. That is largely due to often being driven with a driver and no passengers elsewhere to balance the car. Also, most road surfaces have a bit of runoff lean from the center to both sides. The chassis lean offsets that a bit, and often usually makes the car look more balanced going down the road.
As long as hood, fenders, and wheel placement all look fairly even and fit well? I wouldn't worry about it unless you intend to show the car for high point count.

[Mike Silbert]

Those measurements don't look very far off, more of a side to side tilt than anything else.
If you really want to feel better then set the corners on jack stands and remeasure.
That is up to you.

You have to ask yourself - How did I feel about it's alignment and look before I took it apart?
Model T's are not known for great fender alignment, especially the earlier ones. It's a big balancing act of best compromises.
plus
Did I change anything that would affect how the sheet metal aligns while reassembling the sheet metal?
I think you were ok before and did not change anything so should be fine but that is purely a guess.
You said you wanted to paint them and not repair them so that is what I base my assumption on.

If that is true, I would put it back together.
Now a Model T does not just fall together and needs tweaking as it goes back together.
Take your time and if need be then tweak a hole with a dremel or add a shim washer as needed.
Fender washers under the body mounts can compensate for a sagging frame, a little bit.
If you do adjust things, be careful not to make it worse.
Like a balloon when you push or pull one area it moves everywhere else also.

Take your time and get some help, fenders love to reach out and scratch stuff when you are not looking at that end.
And don't forget about the fender blocks. Without the proper thickness in the proper location things will never line up.

Mike

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Those measurements don't look very far off, more of a side to side tilt than anything else.
If you really want to feel better then set the corners on jack stands and remeasure.
That is up to you.

You have to ask yourself - How did I feel about it's alignment and look before I took it apart?
Model T's are not known for great fender alignment, especially the earlier ones. It's a big balancing act of best compromises.
plus
Did I change anything that would affect how the sheet metal aligns while reassembling the sheet metal?
I think you were ok before and did not change anything so should be fine but that is purely a guess.
You said you wanted to paint them and not repair them so that is what I base my assumption on.

If that is true, I would put it back together.
Now a Model T does not just fall together and needs tweaking as it goes back together.
Take your time and if need be then tweak a hole with a dremel or add a shim washer as needed.
Fender washers under the body mounts can compensate for a sagging frame, a little bit.
If you do adjust things, be careful not to make it worse.
Like a balloon when you push or pull one area it moves everywhere else also.

Take your time and get some help, fenders love to reach out and scratch stuff when you are not looking at that end.
And don't forget about the fender blocks. Without the proper thickness in the proper location things will never line up.

Mike

KM,

This is all excellent advice. As with many antique cars, the Model T is not a precision assembly. There will be small differences side-to-side, front-to-back, etc. You will find that once everything is reassembled, all those differences will blend in and become unnoticeable.

[TXGOAT2]

The condition of the leather or rubber pads between the springs and frame cross members can affect whether the car leans left or right or not. Dry, stiff springs will often cause lean. Tire inflation can make a surprising difference in how the car sits, and tread wear or mixed sets of tires can also cause it. It would be best to measure the complete car on a level steel rack with about 100 lbs of weight, such as cat litter or some kind of feed in each of four seating positions. If nothing else, I'd record all measurements, then move the car to a different spot or turn it around and measure again.

[TXGOAT2]

I'd bet they did a lot of cussing, prying, and grabbing hold and bending in the sheet metal assembly areas at the factory. Prior to WWII, most large tanks for water, oil etc, were built up from formed sheet metal sections, with hundreds of bolts spaced about every two inches. Special rat-tailed wrenches were used to line up the bolt holes and gaskets when installing the bolts.

[TXGOAT2]

I suspect that some sheet metal parts, like the improved front fenders, where not made in their exact final shape. They may have been stamped/assembled in such a way that they had to be sprung slightly during installation to make the bolt holes line up. This would put some tension, or pre-load, in the sheet metal which would stiffen the assembly.

[Allan]

I beg to differ. Sheetmetal fitted under tension will be stressed. Twisting/wracking of the frame in use will futher stress, leading o cracking in the panels at the mounting points.
Using a podger bar to align holes in a static situation like a water tank or building frame is not the same as doing so on in a dynamic situation.
This is often the problem when trying to fit rear fender brackets to the splash panel. I have seen numerous original and reproductions that hhave cracked at this juncture.

Allan from fown under.