Problem starting after sitting all winter.

[Dennis Pings]

I have a 22 touring and I put it away last fall. We pulled it out and it would not start. To cut to the chase; cleaned carb twice, charged battery several times, sprayed a little starting fluid, put oil in the cylinders, and finally restored to pull starting. It fired up immediately and ran beautifully. Put several miles on it, filled fuel tank and started it several times.

This morning went to start it and it would not start. It seemed like it was turning over slower than normal. Had the battery load tested and it showed poor cranking amps. I bought a new battery. Still nothing.

I'm scratching my head. If the starter brushes were worn enough, would it turn over slower?

[John.Zibell]

Remove the cover band on the starter and take a look at the commutator. It may just need cleaning. You can take a look at the brushes at the same time. I just us a little carb cleaner if needed. If it is still cold where you are, that could also account for the slow turn over. Be sure you connection to the starter is clean and tight, but be careful not to bend the piece inside the starter when you tighten. I cut a slot in the top of the stud with a dremel so I could hold the stud with a screwdriver when I tighten the nuts.

[TXGOAT2]

New batteries may need a charge. Is your generator working? You may have a starter issue, as noted above. Did the starter work well last fall? If so, oil may have seeped onto the commutator, in which case cleaning it will probably cure the problem unless the starter is loaded with oil. All battery cable connections are suspect, including the ground, since they can corrode when the car is sitting. I'd check the ground cable to frame connection. The starter switch contacts can oxidize, too and there is a chance the engine is not getting a good ground to the frame due to dirt or rust at the motor mount bolts.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Had the battery load tested and it showed poor cranking amps. I bought a new battery. Still nothing.

Did you check your battery cables and connections to starter, button, & ground?

[Allan]

The starter cable terminal has two nuts. The first is tightened only firmly against the hard plastic bushing in the housing. Wrenching it up even tighter may well crush the bushing and twist the internal bar connecting the field core windings. You need a thinned down wrench to hold this nut when tightening the second nut holding the cable in place. The two nuts act like lock nuts against one another. Not holding that first nut with a wrench invites twisting of the terminal and breaking the solder joint on the terminal to internal bar. This will compromise the starter's effectivness.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Erik Johnson]

Cold starting, especially during cooler temperatures, may require a richer mixture. Turn the carb adjustment knob one quarter turn counter-clockwise (or more if necessary). Once you are driving and the engine is fully warmed-up, you can adjust the carb again and make the mixture leaner.

[Tmooreheadf]

Check the ground connections at the battery and the frame! Clean, tighten as needed!

[Mike Silbert]

While a lot of good suggestions have been thrown out there, there are a lot of possibilities, and the possible problems list needs to be narrowed down.
Years ago when playing with boats there were a lot of "new" problems that showed up at first startup every spring.
Salt Water, Iron, Aluminum, and Wood are not a great mix.
Rust, corrosion, gunk, rot, temperature shifts, cracks, and just general deterioration can take it's toll anytime, especially over winter storage.
Pull starting will will compensate for a lot of issues and make it run in spite of issues.

What was (is) the issue?
Excess friction?
Low Compression?
Cranking slow?
Not actually firing when cranking?
Not starting but firing a little bit?
Does it now start "fine" after getting it to start for the first time this season?
I ask a lot of questions because I prefer troubleshooting and diagnostics over throwing parts at it and guessing, that is my style.

My gut is telling me that it cranks slow and there is a poor connection somewhere causing slow cranking speed.
I would go through it and measure voltage at certain points from the battery posts (not clamps) all the way to the starter motor bolt and starter ground.
There should be about 4 volts or more delivered to the starter while cranking (under load) to rule out battery or wiring issues.
You probably need a helper, one to measure and one to press the starter button.

If I knew more I could be of better assistance.
Mike

[KWTownsend]

Dennis,
If possible, I always leave my cars in the high gear position. That way, when the handbrake is pulled back, the clutch plates will turn freely and not be congealed together.

It makes a difference with my Armstrong starter...

: ^ )

[TXGOAT2]

Thick or dirty oil will make starting a Model T difficult. Ford recommended what amounted to high quality 20W motor oil. Much better oil is available today, and 10W30 is a good choice for general use. In cold weather, 5W30 or 5W20 is a good choice. I use 10W30 full synthetic oil in my T with very good results over many thousands of trouble free miles. I usually do not drive it on cold weather days, but I have driven it often in temperatures over 100 F with no problems. Ford specifically warned against using heavy or cheap oil in the Model T engine.

[Moxie26]

The top of the battery case should be as high as the top rail of the battery holder. If the battery sits lower, there's a possibility that the positive cable connector , if not insulated, could touch the holder rail and short out due to vibration or frame twisting during a ride..... Our vendors do sell battery boards to elevate that battery, One or two boards may be required according to the height of the installed battery in the holder.

[Dennis Pings]

I have cleaned all electrical connection, put in a new battery and have fully charged it. It is definitely spinning faster, however. It is not pulling fuel into the cylinders. We have even sprayed starting fluid in and the plugs are dry. When you put your hand over the throat of the carburetor it seems like there is good compression. That is the next thing I need to check. What is adequate compensation for a model t? Is it between 50 and 60?

If the compression is too low to get it started with the starter, then why did it run so beautifully after we pull started it? How would of it lost compression sitting over the winter?

[speedytinc]

50 to 60 is good. (60 is max from a fresh motor)
You can do a quick Mexican compression test. Hand crank & notice consistent & present compression for all 4 cylinders.
With one revolution of the motor on full choke, you should see a puking of excess fuel from the carb under the tag, on top of the bowl,(NH) or out the air inlet.
If not, your seat needle is stuck closed.(Not getting fuel) Confirm your mixture needle is out 1 & 1/4 turns.
Sure you have a fully closing choke butterfly?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Intake leak at the manifold gaskets and/or carb gasket?

[Mike Silbert]

Rust and sticking in (on) the valves and rings is always a potential issue when engines sit.
Sometimes it takes some heat (running) to get things to seal up.
I have even encountered engines that will not start until you add oil to the cylinders when cold.
Pull starting the car rotates the engine faster than the hand crank or starter motor will.
Pull starting also does not load the battery voltage down causing the plugs to fire hotter.
The extra rotational speed and hotter spark can take it over into starting territory.

To check for fuel flow, close the fuel tank shutoff valve.
Open the carburetor drain and empty into a clean pan.
With the carburetor drain open, and a container under it, open the tank shutoff valve.
There should be a nice flow stream of clean fuel.

Do the same test @ the sediment bowl drain and see what the flow / crud level is there.
If fuel starvation is the issue, there are several places that can be the cause of the problem.

We still need to narrow down the issue some more to get to the bottom of it.
Compression (or leakdown) tests and fuel flow tests will guide which way to go next.
Mike