Fitting Top Bow wood into Top Sockets. Any hints??

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

One of the shop tasks for this week is shaping & fitting a set of new Wood Bows into a new set of Sockets on a 14 Touring. We do not have anything to sample off of, so I am looking for hints or tricks from those who have experience doing this without a template or sample to pattern from.

Maybe I am overthinking this a tad, but it appears these would be very easy to shave the wooden Bow at an incorrect angle to the Socket, -OR shave/sand too much wood away in one or more areas where the wood is loose-fitting in the Socket. Should I make a template out of sheetmetal that has a hole of the same size & shape of the ID of the Socket? (Am I overthinking this too??) Would using a small plane or a spoke-shave be the way to do this, -or a grinder with 80 grit sandpaper??

Any suggestions would be appreciated?

[speedytinc]

Early 15 roadster. My upholstery friend & expert carved the bows. First with a spoke shave. Then graduated to a 3" angle grinder with 80 grit.
Much faster. The procedure is to cut the approximate angle(cone). Fit into the socket. Where it marks, remove more material. The trickiest part was carving the relief slot to fit the rolled seam inside the socket. He used a wood chisel for this channel. A dremel or 1/4" carbide burr in a die grinder will do the job also. The key was to remove a little material then fit to determine where to remove more material. The first bow end took a several hours. (learning curve & being overly cautious.) The other 5 ends were done in one day. They all fit like a glove. We figured if we went to far, we could add some epoxy for filler, but not needed.
No big deal really.

[Mike Silbert]

Brent,

I second John's statements.
If you want a template, measure the outside of the iron and make the bow that size and shape.
It will fit too far out and then use the rub marks to guide you to the proper fit.
Cutting materials faster makes fitting faster and makes mistakes faster.
Find a material removal speed (and tool) that matches your comfort level and confidence and skills.
I like a grinder with a sanding disk on wood but it removes material too fast for detail fitting.
I use it to rough things to shape then switch to slower tools as the final fit comes near.
Mike

[Allan]

John and Mike have it nailed. A good fit all the way around and down comes with patience and checking all the time, and removal of the high spots as revealed with contact points.
The same process works when fitting hammer handles etc and when fitting ferrules on new handles for Model T screwdrivers.

Allan from down under.

[Tim Hansen]

Are there rivets that hold the wood bow into the socket once fitted? I recently bought a set of repro top irons for my 14 Touring and will be purchasing wood bows for them soon so this information is timely for me

Thanks

Tim

[Mike Silbert]

Tim,

Top bows originally were made by the body manufacturer, and there were variations in the details.
The design of the top bows also changed through the various years and I am not sure exactly how the reproduction ones are built.
I can only speak generalities and possibilities here.

Some bows (most?) have a tapered wood piece inside to fill some of the distance between the bottom end adapter and end of the iron.
If not something should be there to add strength.
Some top iron hardware is riveted on just the one side of the tube leaving the center open, and some is riveted through the wood filler blocking the center hole.
Some top iron hardware rivets end up going through the tip of the bow and some do not.
Some upholstery trim tacks (big fancy heads) go through the metal plus the wood and that can lock it into place.
The bow drill (wrap) extends over the iron a little bit and can hide a tack(s) that can lock the bow into the iron.
Hidden tacks under the bow drill is the most common method of locking them together.
But do make sure the bow drill is up high enough it will not show then the top cover is installed.

What you actually do depends on what your irons and bows are telling you needs to be done.
Most importantly get them to sit at the right heights with tight taper fits at the correct iron angles to get the correct roof look and profile.
Then fitting the cover so it looks good is the next set of problems.
Looking at similar tops in person can make the whole process less confusing, maybe.

If we ask nicely maybe Brent will post pictures of his top fitting process?
Mike

[TRDxB2]

Take a look at this link. Has kind of step by step & pictures
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/2 ... 1205772092

[Mike Silbert]

If you scroll down this thread it shows you the construction of the irons plus the the riveting and the wooden inserts (not the bow tips) plus more that I was trying to describe.
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/7 ... 1509727571

The late Richard Eagle's pictures (and skills) are better than my description
Mike

[Tim Hansen]

Thanks for all of the great replies. I now have a much better understanding of the process. I see from the previous post Synders sells bows with the ends turned to match the sockets. I understand there may be differences in top irons. I bought mine from Mel's Leather and Horse Hair. They look really nice. I will order bows from him so hopefully it will require minimum fitting. Thanks again for the detailed responses.

Tim

[Original Smith]

A coarse file for the finishing touches.

[Allan]

A previous post reminded me that on a two man top, the second and third bows are set at the same height. This is not the case on a one man top.

Allan from down under.