installing demountable rims

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John Illinois
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installing demountable rims

Post by John Illinois » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:40 am

When tight do the 4 rim lugs have a gap from the wheel or do they contact it ? I do not want to over tighten.



John


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:52 am

John

if the rims have welded permanent lugs and are matched to the correct felloes, my experience has been that they leave a small gap when properly installed.

If you have removable lugs that fit into a notch on the felloe, those get tightened completely down, but I suspect that this is not the style you're asking about.
Scott Conger

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Topic author
John Illinois
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by John Illinois » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:11 am

Scott,thanks for the reply. I have the welded lugs.

John


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Allan » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:39 am

John,Scott is right about the fixed lug rims. Unless the rim/ felloe have been left loose and have worn, there should be a gap. However, loose lugs also should stand off the felloe, each foot of the lug registering on the rim and felloe nothing, with the flat between them not touching the felloe.

Allan from down under.


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Altair » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 pm

With demountable rims it is not uncommon to have a mismatch between rim and wheel. There was at least four makers of wheels and rims and they are easily mismatched. I have Chevrolet wheels on Ford rims, from six feet away you can't tell but they do not fit perfect.


Topic author
John Illinois
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by John Illinois » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:29 am

My front rims fit with a bigger gap under the lugs than the rear but they all seat properly on the felloe. I am going to buy 4 used rims as mine have either bad holes in the lugs or too much rust. If they are all model T of the right size I assume they will fit ok? The vendor has several to choose from and suggested I come to look at them.


John

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Mark Gregush
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:18 pm

"If they are all model T of the right size I assume they will fit ok? " No they wouldn't necessarily. Google "mtfca; rims" Not all rims fit all wheels, they don't all mix and match.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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John Illinois
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by John Illinois » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:20 pm

Thanks Mark,I will check this out.


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Mel King » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:03 pm

What should the torque be on Hayes rims? MEL.


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:09 pm

tight with a 6-7" long wrench
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by D Stroud » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:14 am

And check 'em a few times after each time you drive it for a while. ;) Dave
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Allan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:45 am

David, did you mean Chev rims on Ford wheels? Chev rims are easily picked, the lug nearest the valve stem being slotted. Chev rims are wider than T rims, and this means that the lugs will stand further off the felloe than a T rim, as the rims bind on the inside edge of the felloe.

Allan from down under.


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by D Stroud » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:30 am

Allan, any wheel. :) I do believe the rims should be a snug fit to the felloes with no gap, no matter what
brand they are. I believe this has been discussed before. The four lugs should not support the weight of the car by themselves, if the lugs support the car, the rims aren't correct for the wheel, although they do work, just not the way they were designed. JMHO Dave
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:54 am

actually, the rims should fit hard against the back (flared) flange of the felloe. If the luts sock down tight to the face of the felloe, this means it's the wrong rim (or at least an incompatible rim), or the felloe has rolled by itself on hard ground and flattened out some. I have seen wheels where the lugs were socked down hard and those bolts were the only thing "suspending" the rim in the felloe. The unsupported rim flexed enough that at slow speed it felt like the wheels were square and at speed would really lope along. And while many brand rims seem to fit various felloes, it pays to do a MTFCA google search like Mark G said, and find out what you really have, assess their condition, then keep what matches and work to get proper mates for those that don't.
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Allan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:10 pm

Scott, I believe you are correct in saying that the rims should wedge against the inside ledge on the felloe, and the wheel bolts just maintain that wedging effect, but I also believe that this is true only for welded lug rims, which have a wider rolled edge on the inside of the felloe.

Kelsey loose lug rims wedge on the outside rolled edge of the felloe. Kelsey felloes have rolled inner and outer edges of the same width.

With welded lug rims on correct undamaged felloes, the inside of the rim wedges on the inside felloe edge, and it is possible to insert a credit card between the rim and felloe on the outside.

With Kelsey loose lug rims, the rim wedges on the outside felloe ledge, and the credit card can be inserted between the rim and the felloe on the inside.

The two felloe types are of different diameters, as indicated by the need for different lengthss spokes needed to rebuild the wheels.

If rims/wheels are intermixed, this wedging effect must be part of the fit. Any combination which achieves the wedge and does not rely on just the 4 bolts should be satisfactory. In any case Hayes rims are the least likely to fit because of the need for a relief in the felloe needed for the foot on the lug. Which brings me to Chev rims, invariably made by Hayes. These are wider than T rims by 3/16" to 1/4". When the valve stem hole is drilled to suit Hayes made Ford wheels, they will bolt up to fixed lug type felloes, will wedge on the inner rolled edge on the felloe, but the lugs will stand further off the outside of the felloe, reflecting the fact that the rims are wider.

Allan from down under.


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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:28 pm

Alan

thank you, and I don't doubt what you're saying ... not my area of expertise other than being the "beta test" on the different spokes hayes/kelsey. I bought the first "correct" length of spokes from Lang's years ago. It's kind of remarkable that within the hobby your point of felloe diameters was not either understood or recognized until relatively recently (7 years ago?)
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Re: installing demountable rims

Post by Allan » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:33 am

Scott, our Canadian sourced cars all came with Kelsey loose lug wheels until at least mid 1925, and even the early ones in that range were still loose lug type. So we only saw welded lug 23" rims in the latter part of 1925, prior to the improved cars with 21" wheels. My barn find original 1925 ute has loose lug rims. 4 of them are dated 3-25 and one 2-25. By the time they were fitted to a chassis, exported to Australia, fitted with an Australian made body and released by Ford for sale, and sent from Victoria back to South Australia, it was likely to be at least September.

I became aware of the different diameters by chance when sourcing felloes which did not have the punched land for the loose lug. I wanted two felloes to plug and dimple to make up a set of Hayes wire wheels. The slightly deeper profile of the later rims led me to measure the ID. It also led to noting the wider rolled land on the inside of the felloe on the later wheels. Until then, I had no occasion/reason to suspect there were differences.

Allan from down under.

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