Conductive lubricants vs non-conductive (dielectric) lubricants

[jiminbartow]

Happy 2020 everyone. I would like to start a conversation here regarding electrical conductive lubricants, vs non-conductive (di-electric) lubricants. I have been on the forum for 20 years (since 2000) and though there may have been discussions on this, I have never seen it brought up and, from what I have read on it, it may be a very important topic to discuss here.

Since starting a thread a couple of days ago, asking for the best way to lubricate the old roller type timers, I have done some online reading into this and have come to the realization that only dielectric lubricants should be used to lubricate electrical components such as distributors, generators and timers. Lubricants, such as graphite grease and white lithium grease and other metal laden lubricants, which conduct electricity and therefore could cause a short or burn out the unit, especially on components such as the Model T timers in which the outer contact surfaces are so close, the grease can bridge the gap and therefore cause major problems in the proper function of the timer. Conductive lubricants can be used on contacts such as prongs and battery terminals and in places where there is no danger of the positive and negative contact surfaces or surfaces that must be kept separate such as the four timer contacts, intermingling or coming into contact with eachother, but on the Model T timers, especially, I would question their use and use only dielectric lubricants on the timers. I did an image search and saw where dielectric lubricants are sold in tubes, specifically labeled “dielectric” grease or lubricant for use in lubricating electrical components.

I would also ask if there are metal laden motor oils or additives that are meant to be used in the crank cases of modern cars but should be avoided at all cost for use in the crankcase of the Model T due to the magneto inside and the danger it could pose by converting the oil into a highly conducive solution.

I know we have a lot of electrical experts on the forum and I am the first to admit that electricity is my weakest subject that I understand the least, so I would welcome a discussion on this topic so we can all learn more about what could be an important subject in the proper function of a crucial component in our T’s. I look forward to your input. Thank you. Jim Patrick

[Mark Gregush]

Dielectric is a non conductive sealer not a lube. When the parts are joined it seals moisture out to help prevent corrosion. Something like vasoline is put on a distributor cam rub block to help prevent wear.

[Scott_Conger]

White Lithium Grease is non-conductive and fine for use (if you wish) on appropriate style timers. I've used it for years on my ANCO type timers, but have recently switched to a synthetic Mobile grease

for info: https://crcindustries.com.au/products/c ... -5037.html

[Susanne]

I haven't seen it for a while, but if you ever find a bottle or 4 of motor oil with graphite in it, don't walk, RUN away from it.

At least if you want to keep your mag working. Same with your timer...

HORRIBLE stuff. I *guess* it was fine for modern iron, but definitely a no-no in a T.

[George Mills]

Jim...68 miles due East...

I’m not surprised at the soft turn out to your question....I’ve sensed it for a while that the old theory guys don’t get too fired up to comment any more.

I’ll also add...your thread could grow legs...

There are the Ones who will quote “Ford said and Ford Almighty!” And that always works...

There are the ones you state “my grand-daddy did it this way (meaning and he walked on water like mine did)

And then there are the modernist who look at things through a fresh set of eyes and mind.

Usually all three can be “correct” at the same time.

I’ll throw this one out...maybe give you a nod to do some more inet homwork. Lots of things change and lots of things improve over the generations...

Put your train hat on and go look at garden railroad “best continuity” suggestions. They have some theory going that states that two steels running against one another with electricity flowing creates microbursts that fill with crud and in time increase resistance and degrade performance. They also have a “snake oil” that keeps this from happening (sounds like some kind of nano technology). I’m not smart enough to know if they are right...but is sure sounds like a swear by it now that it’s available...

[cessna53195]

I have lubed the Anderson timer with axle grease, I mean I filled the whole cup. It works great and this idea came from the guys at the Henry Ford where they do it once a year and put 5,000 miles a year on them. I only drive mine abut 200 miles a year and thus have not touched it since I serviced it 3 years ago. I do remember I put the volt meter in the can of grease and did not get a reading... I don't know if the Ford roller timer would have a strong enough spring...

[mtntee20]

Mark G. is correct in that dielectric grease is classified as a sealant. I have worked with dielectric grease and conductive grease (oil) for many years. The conductive grease being more of an assembly lubricant made of copper dust suspended in a very thick oil. Works very well for what it was intended to do. Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is still a grease. A very light weight grease but a grease none the less. Vaseline does conduct electricity and will burn if heated by flame, friction, or electricity. There is very little, if any, danger of Vaseline igniting in a Model T timer. Not enough amperage, or friction. That being said, a grease is a grease and dielectric grease will lubricate to the extent of it's weight of grease. The thicker or heavier weight of grease, the better is lubricating properties. Dielectric grease is used primarily in electric connections to seal out moisture and dirt and secondarily for lubricating the connectors during assembly/disassembly. It will also perform well as a light grease. I had a door pin squeaking and did not have anything but dielectric grease on hand. I pulled the pin, smeared a bit of dielectric on, put it back in: squeak stopped. Is that a recommended use? No, but it did lubricate and will last longer than a drop of oil. Vaseline would have worked as well but would not have lasted as long as the dielectric due to Vaseline's lighter weight. Axle grease would be a better choice if you only consider the lubricating qualities of a heavy grease. Keep in mind, the vast majority of petroleum based lubricants will attract and accumulate dust and dirt, if the dust and dirt are available.

The subject of model railroads was brought up. A product named NEOLUBE is a colloidal graphite suspended in isopropyl alcohol. It is used to blacken parts that also need conductivity. It is also used in the Nuclear Power industry to lubricate stainless steel components that require assembly/disassembly. The graphite being a lubricator and a conductor. When the alcohol evaporates, the graphite is left adhered to the surfaces and remains in place surprisingly well. I have used Neolube in both industries. I have not used it on a Model T timer but I think it would work quite well as long as it could bear the abrasion between the parts. One great thing about this product; it dries FAST so application on the road would be just about as quick as adding oil/grease to the timer. One of the best things: Neolube does NOT attract dust or dirt. It IS graphite so ensuring it did not get into the engine oil would be important.

Good Luck,
Terry