Where to start?

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130nav
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Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:04 pm

A relative has recently offered me an inroad to this hobby for a reasonable price. I've been given the choice of two T's for the same price, one as I've posted before is a 25 Depot Hack that started off as a closed car. The other is a 26 touring car that has been in a storage container for at least 10 years I'm guessing. My goal is to have a car that could be driven around town, and farther distances on occasion, as well as in a parade, or to get ice cream with the kids on the weekend, without having to do major work before it is safe and reliable for around town driving. A weekend of tinkering with carburetors is fine, cleaning up surface rust and priming as time allows is fine, but I'd like to avoid having to tear into the engine and transmission immediately. The touring car is my preference because of its authenticity and more enclosed seating (I have a wrangler if I want to drive around completely doorless,) but the hack looks to be in better condition, at least cleanliness wise and paint condition. I'm probably going to have to go out (the cars are in Kansas, and I live in Ohio) and see both cars before I decide which one is right for my family, but I figured I could share the pictures I'm able to get with you all and see if you can spot any reasons to rule out one or the other entirely. (or just what I need to dig into further)

Here is the hack again:
4407F2BF-BC45-4513-B95D-B0C6A31F1F82.JPG
649FEE98-5FFE-4B05-B0E7-45363BD24B53.JPG
4F5E4FEB-4AAC-4850-BACF-0D64EA516ACE.JPG
1A8204D8-CCB3-467E-AE2D-0A30C22D38A9.JPG
BD34B42C-1B2C-4CDB-84F2-C3F63219D687.JPG


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130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:08 pm

And here is the 26 Touring Car:
7C9480DD-35E2-47E3-A4C7-689C76E0E70C.JPG
7AD9B10C-313F-4854-A5DD-9E8B8197FB92.JPG
761748A0-EEB9-4305-AF3E-73B7932D3695.JPG
AF38D942-1913-4C1B-B67B-5EE2D64C86A1.JPG
215D7A67-01A6-4B3C-85A9-CFA423F0D3A2.JPG


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130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:17 pm

More of the 26, I really like the green paint, but it looks like a lot of it is peeling:
03027155-05D9-44F7-8831-BC0F71638234.JPG
B02DF504-F1DE-4D8E-9426-B6889F7FD19C.JPG
F39BC49F-A8A4-43C1-959D-5DF5623AB095.JPG
A691EBB0-BA6E-4B6B-BA90-75958D8BBDFE.JPG
3C025A32-D904-4FE0-BAA2-AB4E439CF580.JPG


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130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 pm

Few more:
A30A83F7-6D1C-4F69-BDD0-62EE54F6DC80.JPG
3560125B-C745-4056-8B1D-F838CE570120.JPG
B7EB80C0-41C2-4B3E-B65F-C2314F72532A.JPG
9C21F8D9-02E2-4435-B5EF-221ACFD19775.JPG
2FA66273-CE0F-402C-B5DB-079371463E16.JPG
What do you all think?


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Re: Where to start?

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:32 pm

Well, everybody has their own preferences, needs, and abilities. Either car could be best depending on your feelings, family, time or abilities.

From my point of view, and I do not wish to insult anyone, but the "depot hack" is not a correctly done car, or body. It could be the more fun car? Or not? If I had that one, I would have to trash the body, and replace it with something else. Perhaps a correctly done depot hack, or a speedster? Or even a Ford factory body of some sort. However, as it is, if, or when, the time comes to sell it, whether because you tire of it? Or because you need the money? It would likely be far more difficult to find a buyer for at anywhere near what you will have in it. Just a consideration.
I do think the touring car looks like the better buy.
But that is my opinion, based upon my preferences.

Seeing the photos you just added. I have not changed my opinion. ANY model T could at any time have a major mechanical failure. That is part of the reality. And for many of us, part of the fun. The touring car looks decent enough that it could be driven and enjoyed as a bit of a beater, and slowly upgraded, paint touched up bit by bit, mechanical improvements made as time allows. I have always said that the best model T to have is one that is nice enough to not be embarrassed by its look, but beat enough that one can enjoy it without worrying about every little scratch. It is fun to lash on a picnic basket and not be concerned about a rope burn on the fender or hood!
Again, my opinion.

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Re: Where to start?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:47 pm

I am with Wayne on this one and will stick with what I said the first go round about the hack. While there is some paint loss on the touring, I would go with it.
Original post;
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 985#p66985
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Topic author
130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:18 am

Mark Gregush wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:47 pm
I am with Wayne on this one and will stick with what I said the first go round about the hack. While there is some paint loss on the touring, I would go with it.
Original post;
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 985#p66985
I agree with Mark and Wayne. I don’t like the looks or the construction of the hack, however it looks from here like a more conservative bet for a running and driving parade vehicle. Of course just like with any car, anything can go wrong at any time with either no matter how they look. I’m just looking for obvious red flags on either.

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Re: Where to start?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:37 am

Simple decision since you live in Ohio, a "T" state, take the one you want, the '26. There are all kinds of resources (Part suppliers, clubs, owners etc) nearby. My only concern, not a big one, is where the storage container was located. If out in the sun, the heat inside could have ruined fabric, top etc. The pealed paint may have been a result to. On the other hand it didn't rust out as a result and the enclosure likely prevented rodents from nesting in it. No doubt that EVERYTHING needs to be lubricated before its driven 10 feet


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Re: Where to start?

Post by Humblej » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:29 am

Avoid the hack, go for the touring. Touring looks like a solid complete car, will have more value and better resale over the hack, and the 26-27 touring is one of the best model T's ever made. 26-27 is what Ford called the improved car. Better transmission brakes, better trans-block attachment makes the 4th main bearing and rear motor mounts more stable. Better parking brake with a larger drum. Baloon tires and smaller wheels lowers the vehicle height and cg, baloon tires improve the ride. Headlight bar reduces front fender vibration. Coil box more accessable. Cowl mount gas tank eleminates fuel starvation problems over the other 14 million model T's. Improved steering gear ratio, all steel body with a functioning drivers door. Origional color choices of black, blue, or brown. Optional stop light, bumpers, wind wings, gypsy curtains, top boot, windshield wiper, nickel radiator shell, wire wheels, and natural wood spoke wheels.
If you do not want the touring please send me a pm with price and location.
Last edited by Humblej on Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where to start?

Post by John E. Guitar » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:01 am

I would choose the Touring over the Depot Hack.

I did notice the Touring has a water pump, so you may need to replace the radiator (around $900 from Bergs).

The paint looks in pretty good shape to me. I would probably leave it like that.

Here is my 26 that I drive quite regularly in and around Sydney. I think the paint condition is part of the car’s character.

CA964795-2E44-45CB-AC9B-20F9A7B0E26A.jpeg

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Re: Where to start?

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 am

I'm pretty much with the consensus here. The Touring is my favorite body style any way + as stated the depot hack is home made. Nice but not right. Might make a future resale a problem.
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Re: Where to start?

Post by LVRR2095 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:20 am

Just a tiny point....but the seats on the touring look a LOT more comfortable than those in the Depot Hack.
If you want to take even a moderate ride...having seat cushions would be preferable.

Keith


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Re: Where to start?

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:38 am

Get the 25 Roadster pickup. Dan


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Re: Where to start?

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:41 am

So there you have it. Based on comments thus far, you'd have a heck of a time selling the hack if you tired of it. I mean, really hard time. So if future $$ enter into the equation, your decision has been made. The reality is in this hobby, you will sink more $$ into the car than you will get back when you sell it, 90% of the time. How much of a beating you take, is controlled by you. My motto is "the most expensive T you purchase, will be the cheapest in the long run". No one ever saved money by buying a beater and then restoring it.
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Re: Where to start?

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:45 am

I agree that just about any T you buy probably has something wrong with it. In this case the hack's obvious shortcoming is the modern body, and the touring's most obvious problem is its cosmetic appearance. For the reasons others have detailed, I would go with the touring. But I would expect two expenses after buying it. One is the new radiator John suggested. If that turns out not to be needed, call it a nice surprise. The other is a rear axle rebuild. Depending how much and how hard the car has been driven in the past 92 years, that can cost from under a hundred dollars to several hundred. The car appears to be an old restoration, but old enough that I would certainly open up that rear axle and see what's inside. Don't be intimidated. The MTFCA axle book tells you exactly what to do and how to do it. It ain't rocket surgery.

I should add that three kinds of green were among the several colors used on 1927 Fords, so the green on this car may be correct or close to it.
The inevitable often happens.
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Rich Bingham
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Re: Where to start?

Post by Rich Bingham » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:17 pm

Opinions on this thread are a sure indicator of resale value and interest. If your primary goal is to drive without having to do extensive overhauls, if both run and drive when you go to see them in person, barring documentation on any engine and/or differential rebuild, there’s little difference there unless one or the other is obviously mechanically shaky. Personally, I’d choose the touring, and find the “patina” appealing. I bet she cleans up real nice ! :D :D

And thanks for sharing your journey of acquisition! It’s often one if the biggest fun parts of “Model T-ing” (and the reason so many of us can’t stop at just one!) :shock:
"Get a horse !"


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Re: Where to start?

Post by DHort » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:02 pm

Personally I think I might go with the hack if I was just starting out. It looks to be in better shape and it is (I assume) drivable. This would get you in to the hobby and you can find out if you really like it. My biggest concern is if that top is to low I would hit my head on it - looks pretty close to the top of the windshield.
Once you have the hack, you can plan on rebuilding the wooden part into a better hack or a Speedster. At least you can drive it while you are planning and building. Then one day you can just switch to another body. It does have a second seat as well, so you are not restricted to only having one other passenger.
All depends on your skills and what you might like to do. You can always buy a second car if they do not breed over the winter when you are not watching.

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Re: Where to start?

Post by aDave » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:45 pm

Owning a T requires a LOT of personal decisions....in my opinion, the least of which is "which one will enable me to make a profit"...or at least get my money back. Really HARD to do when you dispose of one. Most important reason is "What do I want to do with it?" - you said what you wanted in the first post of this thread...a fun car for short trips with minimal "get it safe and road worthy".
My first T was one we bought from a family member...a Depot Hack...and it WAS a fun car for many of the reasons you enumerated....for longer trips we sat on an extra cushion and used a lap robe. Lots of good times, and didn't mind the kids spilling their ice cream (too much).
Many years later we did "graduate" to a Touring. The hack, in my opinion, will be the most fun for your first encounter with the intricacies of the Model T. Just my experience. Your nickle - your choice...you'll have fun either way.
Attachments
Depot Hack with kids.jpg
Depot Hack with kids.jpg (46.21 KiB) Viewed 813 times

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Re: Where to start?

Post by RustyFords » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:51 pm

I'm not a fan of hacks unless they're sporting actual vintage hack bodies from back in the day. This doesn't appear to be the case with this one.

Touring cars are a lot of fun and perfect for putting around with the family and enjoying the sunshine.

I'd go with the Touring.
1924 Touring


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Re: Where to start?

Post by samuel pine » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:37 am

where to start ok: I'll start in the 50's we had a 2dr doctors coupe i guess. My father
would send me weekly 2 3 miles for kerosene for the Florance stove in the shop. Remember those, the glug glug it was a two burner. Me about 13 yrs old. Ole man says
make good and sure the car comes back in one piece never mind bout you. No problem back then 'I had good bones'. But back then we had four seasons now we have two, a
tinch of summer then winter (you globle warmers reading this)? So I got stung at 70yrs
old and bought a original 23 touring mint under neath & topside. but now it sits. No
way to go even around the block and freeze to death. In fact since last warming in
August I go in the ole barn = it started right up two turns. This is laser straight never been
painted I did bore and install valve seats all new oh had to go .060 on Johns Pistons. Std.
crank runs quiet no issues. So it would be nice to trade for a 2 or 4 dr sedan with a manifold heater. Ya I'm Jealous, my son has a 1931 Murray with awesome manifold heat burn ya boots off. Problem is to sell, I live in tire kickin country. This has to be $9000 all day here best offer $1000 ugg end of rant.....sam


Topic author
130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:53 am

Ok I'm pretty sure I agree with the consensus so far. I'll be going for the touring car as long as there's no serious rust problems and I can turn the engine over. John, the picture of your 26 was very helpful in explaining my reasoning to my wife. I'm definitely going to have to go see the cars in person before making the trip to actually bring one home, or just make that trip a few days longer maybe.

While I've got these pictures up here, dumb newbie question, what is the box below the car opposite the muffler in the back?
130nav wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 pm
underside.JPG

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Where to start?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:10 am

That's the battery. It's under the rear floor board.
The inevitable often happens.
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TRDxB2
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Re: Where to start?

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:43 am

See it, lube it (in all the places above), drive it then decide to buy it.
Where and when to lubcricate.jpg

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Re: Where to start?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:14 am

1916 Chart.jpg
Ford Lube Chart.jpg
Manly's, 1917.jpg
Anybody ever notice the disagreements among lube charts? :)

I wonder where I can get SOCONY 990. Is it better than Polarine, Gargoyle, or Auntie Chatter?
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


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130nav
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Re: Where to start?

Post by 130nav » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:30 am

Steve Jelf wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:10 am
That's the battery. It's under the rear floor board.
Yeah I’m an idiot, I was for some reason thinking that the battery and coil box up on top of the engine occupied the same location simultaneously. I even saw the heavy gauge wire going to it in another picture.

Thank you both for the lubrication charts, that was probably one of my next searches/questions.

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Re: Where to start?

Post by Barth_Tool_Co » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:53 am

Perhaps a 3rd option?

You didn't say what your budget was but there are some nice looking tourings out there that don't need to be revived from long tern storage... Perhaps use the funds towards one of those? Might be worth looking around to see what is out there... no offense to your relative, it never hurts to shop around.

I'm in with the "pay up front" crowd... a cheap car can get expensive in a real hurry, decades of neglect = lots of repair. I shudder when I inquire about a car and hear the words "it runs great... for a 80 year old car". Its like thick whitewash that covers a barely running heap to make it sell-able.

My best advice from 25 years in the car hobby.

1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy the car, not the story.
3. Research comparable cars for selling price (not asking price).
4. Come up with a price you are willing to pay and don't go over.
5. See it in person.
Last edited by Barth_Tool_Co on Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
... and my number is Beechwood 4-5789
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Re: Where to start?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:54 am

pile of rusty parts.jpg
pile of rusty parts.jpg (41.21 KiB) Viewed 666 times
Finished.jpg
Finished.jpg (52.14 KiB) Viewed 666 times
From the looks of things, the hack looks like it is in better condition. However, as has been stated previously, it is a modified body, which is not like anything Henry actually made. Since you don't want to do much work to get it running, I would suggest that if you don't have the personal knowledge to test the performance of the mechanical parts, that you take someone more familiar with you when you go to see the cars. If you can get them running, you can listen to and drive a bit to evaluate the mechanical condition. The touring is a much more authentic looking body, but has been stored for many years, so if the fuel, oil, and coolant was not drained before it was stored, you could have a lot of mechanical problems to solve before it would run well. There might have been a reason it was stored. Maybe it quit running. Anyway, any Model T is going to need some mechanical work from time to time and you will either need the know how, ability, tools, and a place to work on it. Or you will need to have enough money to pay someone else to do the work.

Many drivers just get everything mechanical working and leave the body as is. If you have an enclosed storage place, you could leave the body as is and it won't further deteriorate. Anyway, the final choice is yours to make. Either way you have a lot less work ahead than I did when I got mine!

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