spokes for wooden Felloes

[BernhardBK]

I need to exchange 4 wooden spokes for a rim with wooden spokes. The spokes are longer and a bit narrower than the regular ones. The 5/8 tenon ist longer 0,9 inch) than regular ones. Where could I get one, I could not find them at Langs or Snyders.
Thankfully for your help
Bernd

[speedytinc]

A wheelwright. Dave Seiler, Stutzman, etc.

[DanTreace]

Here is link to a USA qualifier rebuilder of new wood wheels.


http://www.calimerswheelshop.com/

Lots of info on the links in the homepage, videos too. But first read the Frequently Asked Questions link, reasons given why adding a few new spokes to old used wood felloe wheels isn’t the way to go.

Have always obtained new wood spoke wheels from a professional wheelwright.

[JBog]

Noah Stutzman. Baltic Ohio.

[OilyBill]

I recommend Stutzman in Baltic, Ohio.

I have been to his shop, and he has about EVERY spoke pattern you can imagine. I took my metal wheel parts up there last year, and took along a sample spoke section for my 1910 Brush. Brush spokes are peculiar in that they have a round radius on the inner side of the spoke, but the outer side of the spoke actually tapers to a point in the center of the spoke. I brought the sample section of good spokes with me, but once I arrived there and saw his shop, I realized I could have left it behind. He must have HUNDREDS of different spoke patterns for his spoke lathe, and pulled up the correct one out of a drawer in about 30 seconds after I brought in my rims and hubs and the sample spoke section. The wheels he made for me were a PERFECT reproduction.

Noah Stutzman
33656 County Rd. 12
Baltic, Ohio
43804
1-330-897-1391

When I was there, aside from all the Model T wheels to respoke, he had a huge stack of other makes of car wheels that needed re-spoking. He was also working on a Wyoming Mining Wagon, that had wheels that were probably 10 feet in diameter, and weighted easily 1000 lbs each. The rims for those wheels were 1/2" steel by about 6" wide. They were for an oxen-drawn freight wagon that carried from 10-15 tons of weight. He can make wheels up to 12 feet in diameter. Also stacks of the narrow buggy wheels that the traditional Amish black runabout wagons use, which were in for local repair. Although he is Amish, they are allowed to have telephones for business use. He also makes wooden rims for very early bicycles (1885-1895) and custom wooden steering wheels to fit your steering wheel spider.
Call him, but keep in mind the local time there, and call from perhaps 10 am to 2 pm his time. Just check the current time in Baltic, Ohio on your computer and you will know when is a good time to call him.

[DHort]

Bernhard

I would suggest you mail 2 of your spokes to Noah or whomever you would like to make spokes for you. That way they know the exact size. You only need 4 spokes, but I suggest you ask him to make 6 in case one does not fit well and so you have a couple extra.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Having trouble with my computer AGAIN! Very frustrating!

The OP is in Germany. There are some language issues, and proper answers for people here in America may not be the most practical advice for someone needing to deal with worldwide shipping two directions from Europe?

I do not know, but the last I heard, Stutzman didn't want to make individual spokes for wood felloe wheels due to most people's inability to assemble them correctly?
So who does offer such a service? (I certainly do not know?)

Only taken nearly an hour to get this much posted.

[John.Zibell]

Having trouble with my computer AGAIN! Very frustrating!

The OP is in Germany. There are some language issues, and proper answers for people here in America may not be the most practical advice for someone needing to deal with worldwide shipping two directions from Europe?

I do not know, but the last I heard, Stutzman didn't want to make individual spokes for wood felloe wheels due to most people's inability to assemble them correctly?
So who does offer such a service? (I certainly do not know?)

Only taken nearly an hour to get this much posted.

Considering he is in Germany, if he can locate second growth hickory a furniture maker may be able to make them by copying a good spoke. That said,if he needs 4, the rest may as well be replaced so he has a strong wheel.

[TRDxB2]

I need to exchange 4 wooden spokes for a rim with wooden spokes. The spokes are longer and a bit narrower than the regular ones. The 5/8 tenon ist longer 0,9 inch) than regular ones. Where could I get one, I could not find them at Langs or Snyders.
Thankfully for your help
Bernd

Bernd, as someone suggested to have someone make them there. Perhaps Peter Mock can do since he makes furniture. Also he may need the same spokes some day

[BernhardBK]

Hi, thanks for your input.
I was very happy, to get the spokes out of the rim and wooden felloe.
But now I am a bit frustrated as I learnt that the best and safest solution is to get build a new felloe with new spokes by an experienced company like Calimer or Noah Stutzman. This would mean that I have to send the metal rim to the States and I would get back the complete and very heavy wheel with new wooden fellow and new spokes.
My preferred solution was just to exchange the 4 spokes with cracks or all 6 of a half felloe.
But Calimers FQA and the information about Stutzman show me, that both would not like to sell individually made spoke, if the size is less than the full amount of all spokes of a wheel (12).
And Calimer does not recommend a repair (exchange of some) of spokes and they do not offer this service at all.
Therefore I think I will first follow Frank’s recommendation to ask Peter to build some spokes and see if I could install them….
If this fails, I could go the better but time and money consuming way to get a new wheel build.
Thanks a lot for the many helpful advices.
Regards
Bernd

[Erik Johnson]

I wouldn't waste my time trying to partially re-spoke that wheel.

I would do one of the following:

- Find a better wheel locally

- Purchase a rebuilt wheel from the U.S.

[Michael Peternell]

I wouldn't waste my time trying to partially re-spoke that wheel.

I would do one of the following:

- Find a better wheel locally

- Purchase a rebuilt wheel from the U.S.

Yup! Trying to put really expensive lipstick on a pig. No offense to the original poster. Best thing I did on my 15. Gives me at least some security when I'm touring with the grandkids. A breakdown is not catastrophic, a broken wheel is.
This opinion and 6 buck's may get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Mike

[AndreFordT]

Bernhard, I just send you a mail about the wheel rebuild in Europe.

Wheels in the photos are done in Poland.

Andre
Belgium

[AndreFordT]

Here two adresses in the Netherlands:
www.bartholland.nl
www.wagenmakerijverweij.nl

Andre
Belgium

[AndreFordT]

And the adress in Poland.
https://www.mendyka.pl/en/home/

Good luck

Andre
Belgium

[NoelChico]

I LOVE THIS FORUM!! First, the OP wrote in asking for advice on respoking a non-demountable wheel, then several US members suggested US wheelwrights. Then someone astutely noted that the OP is in Germany. Finally, a European member gave advice and contact information on European wheelwrights. I'm always impressed at what a great bunch of folks are on this forum.

[BernhardBK]

Thanks a lot. Now I know that there are wheel builders in driving distance to me. Hopefully they are as experienced and good as the Americans. The Polnisch wheels look great.

[Altair]

To determine the spoke length the circumference must be determined, for a 30 x 3 1/2" wheel the circumference is 69 51/64 from there you can determine the inside circumference and the diameter of the felloe. The spoke length will be from the collar at the tenon to the center of the wheel, The felloe is usually 1" and the tenon length is usually 7/8, some makers choose to go right through so that the end of the tenon is touching the steel rim. You may have to apply your grade 8 math skills, I used my calculator. To confirm the inside circumference of the rim a rolling ruler is required, there are commercial ones available I made my own using a pizza cutter, the one I purchased from the store was exactly 12" in circumference then I divided it into 16th divisions. With some careful measuring it was 69 51/64. For the distance between each spoke in the felloe you have to measure on the curve there is a slight difference between straight and on the curve. The distance is slight but when multiplied X 12 it can be out 1/8" - 1/4". Cutting the angle is important to be at 15*. To test the cut place three spokes into a steel square and they should be tight with no movement. The first 3 or 4 wheels I made were failures and I had difficulty finding my error. I consulted with journeyman wheelwright and he showed me how to measure correctly and cut the tenons with a tenon cutter. If you have a correct factory spoke it is easy to copy it but somewhat more challenging to make your own. To be on the safe side I made my spokes slightly larger to assure a tight fit. When assembling the wheel I inserted 6 spokes in to the felloe half then the other 6 were inserted into the other felloe half as an assembly the 6 spokes and the felloe were then fitted in to rim and tapped in with a wood mallet, when it got to a point it would go no further all the spokes were numbered then removed and the tapers on each spoke were slightly sanded the reassembled until a very tight fit was attained. The felloes were then rivetted in place and the connector clasps installed. I made a plywood jig that fit inside the rim with a centering hole then cut the spokes to fit the hub. Making the first wheel was a challenge however was somewhat routine after that, all the cuts must be regularly checked for any movement. It is equally important that the blanks are cut accurate, I made a jig and fitted each blank in to it and also made a centering jig to center each blank. Turning the blanks on the lathe it not too critical only the length is important. There are some different designs of spokes where the spokes are cut on a compound angle and the last spoke fits in to the assembly like a wedge and is pressed in, the hub holds the assembly tight, there is no press required.

[Steve Jelf]

My technical advice is to send the job to a wheelwright. I've respoked my own demountable wheels, but wood felloes are another story. Is my life worth the cost of hiring an experienced pro? It is to me.

[AndreFordT]

Watch this. It isn't that simple to build or repair these wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCi8l0B-zlo

Andre
Belgium

[AndreFordT]

Once an old blacksmith told me:
You can't repair a broken wheel but you can use the parts to build a new one.

Andre
Belgium

[Altair]

There are may be two issues, making the parts ie spokes and felloes and /or assembling the parts. Assembly is not rocket science. six spokes are inserted into a felloe and the assembly in placed into the rim then the remaining 6 spokes are inserted in to the other felloe and also inserted in to the other side of the rim. At this point there is an option, both felloes can be inserted in to the rim and pressed or driven in with a wood mallet or both felloes inserted in to the rim and the spokes allowed to remain elevated and then pressed in. Once assembled the rivets and clasps are installed then the center is cut for the hub. There are some videos showing broken wheels and various wheel failures, however there is limited videos of how the failure really happened. There was a serious broken wheel photo and later it was learned that the T was being towed and tightly turned causing the wheels to be hard over bouncing on the pavement, the driver of the tow vehicle was oblivious and continued towing until the wheel broke in half. The failure was blamed on the fact that the spokes were Oak and not Hickory. The fact that it was bouncing sideways on the pavement wasn't the issue. Some wish to be adventurous and some not, each to his/her own.

[Erik Johnson]

At the factory, the rims were heated, the felloe and spoke assembly were placed in the heated rim and the rim would shrink onto the felloe. This is also what professional wheelwrights do.

Period Ford Motor Company film covering Model T Ford wood wheel manufacturing process from start to finish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqGA92D7B6g