Bad habit when starting

[bdtutton]

Hello....On the day my 1914 Touring was finally ready to start for the first time my left shoulder was hurting so I started the car with my right hand. I was very carful to set the timing and I had no problems. I continued to do this until my left shoulder felt better. Now I have the bad habit of starting the car with my right arm when I don't think about it. It usually starts in one or two pulls and never kicks back so I am happy with the car, but I keep hearing stories about these old cars kicking back and I am wondering how long and how bad it will be when this causes a problem.

[Ruxstel24]

I’ve always used my right arm, I think the biggest thing is NOT to wrap your thumb around the handle and only crank 1/4 turn at a time. Starting at 9 o’clock and pull up to 12 o’clock, and then let go of the crank....
Others may differ.
I have spun a few on occasion !!

[John iaccino]

You should be using the right arm to crank. This frees up the left hand to operate the choke

[Rich Eagle]

There are a lot of folks who can tell and show their injuries from cranking. If you can crank with your left hand and thumb tucked in you really should. Most of us who don't are reluctant to mention as it might discourage anyone from being safe. I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone hurt themselves. Many stay quiet rather than tell of doing it wrong.
I dare say though, I began cranking Ts in the '60s without proper tutoring. I continue it to this day after being reminded often that it is dead wrong. I have gotten a kick backwards at least a hundred times. Luckily it has not resulted in broken bones. Perhaps I'm slow- witted, stubborn or my engines don't have enough power. I tend to hang on to the crank and it gives me a bit of a muscle ache. Lately, if it comes loose it bruises the skin or peels a layer off.
A big change came in the '80s when I was breaking in my 1923 White Bus. The 45 HP engine was very stiff from a rebuild and I had to put my foot on the crank handle and jump with all my weight on it to make it turn. Eventually my arm muscles were enough to turn it over. It had to be spun and I was never able to use my left or tuck my thumb in. It seldom kicked except if I forgot to relieve the compression. One day it kicked twice from that and drove my shoulder into it's socket. I was able to crank a couple more times that day but it took weeks for the shoulder to feel right again. A dozen years later my shoulder developed some pains that I believe were related and I haven't been able to crank the Bus any more. It's been better this year and I can start the Ts now. I use both hands and just pull a quarter turn.
It is worth while listening to the Safety warnings of those that are wiser.
Thanks Dave and John for your observations.
Rich

[George House]

And I start my ‘14 yet another way. Royce taught me to choke it 4 times with the ignition off. Often I’ll have a free start when turning to BAT but, if not, I’ll insert the crank at the 3 o’clock position and slam it down with my foot. This is both safe and provides a greater spark due to the speed of moving the magnets compared to hand cranking. I might also mention my right hand was mangled in an accident.

[23ford]

Always have used my right arm to crank and always spin it, Do not buy in to this 1/4 turn cranking because the old timers that all showed me how said to spin it.

[ModelT46]

In the past 40 years and more, I have used the 4 and spin method. Choke each cylinder with 4 quarter pulls and then spin.. I use a 12 volt battery. When warm it will start on mag. It is my 1910. I have always used my right hand.

[Steve Jelf]

Pull with the right hand for choking and with the left for starting. Very simple. I don't get why some folks don't get that.
I would call left hand pulling a little safer than using the right hand because the left hand is more likely to be thrown out of the way of a spinning-backwards crank handle. More important is to only pull up, and not go over the top.

When this subject comes up we always hear from the I've never had a problem crowd. They always leave off the last word: YET. Karl Wallenda walked tightropes for decades, then at age 73 he fell ten stories and went splat. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't.

Having broken a wrist with stupid cranking, I don't recommend it. I wasn't even trying to "spin" the crank. I just went over the top, and it came back and bit me. The pain was so excruciating I passed out on the ground. When I came to I drove to the hospital one-handed. Now, all these years later, my right hand is permanently numb.

You're free to do as you wish. Once was more than enough for me.

This version of my sermon includes a couple of video links: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG101.html

[TXGOAT2]

I'd think that keeping the hand crank assembly and ratchet/pin clean and lightly lubricated would make cranking a little easier and safer. A worn or dry ratchet/pin might be more prone not to release if the motor kicked back or rocked back. A good strong spring would probably help prevent rattles and wear and might help disengage the crank from the engine when needed. A notched pin or a ratchet with wear or burrs would likely be more dangerous.

[Allan]

I am right handed. It just doesn't feel right using my left hand to crank with. Pull up from 8 o'clock, handle clears at 12 o'clock. Any kickback and the right hand is already out of the loop.
Allan from down under.

[Norman Kling]

The left hand is safer, but the most important thing whichever hand you use, is not to ever push down on the crank. Always start low and pull up to the top quickly, and let go and raise your arm quickly away from the path of the crank because if it kicks, it can hit your arm or wrist st fast, you won't know it until it hurts or worst is broken.
I prefer to crank with the ignition off 2 or three pulls with right hand and left hand on the choke. Then turn on the ignition, and pull up once with left hand and it will usually start right up. When the engine is warm, and off for a short time such as a visit to the gas station, I can turn on the ignition and either get a free start, or pull up once with left arm and it starts right up. Most important of all is to be sure the spark lever is up for starting whether you use the crank, or the starter.
Norm

[Steve Jelf]

Norm is exactly correct, except that a well-tuned car starting on BAT doesn't need to be pulled quickly. Other than that one word, I wish to associate myself with the remarks of the gentleman from Alpine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pv6HWWOGYA

[DickC]

This is like the age old question, "do you wear it on the right or left?". I need to add to the comment by TXGOAT aka Pat, please check the ratchet for wear. I bought a 1915 and didn't realize it had a VERY worn ratchet. I cranked a quarter turn with my right hand and it slipped causing the back of my hand to slam into the head light. It HURT. I did the same thing two more times, (STUPIDLY), and quit to find out that the ratchet was bad. My hand swelled up to the size of a catchers mitt. About a year later I had two knuckles replaced!!! AVOID replacing knuckles if you ever are told that is the fix for your hand problems.

[Ruxstel24]

Just to not be mistaken, if the engine backfires, the crank ratchet will not disengage regardless. The ratchet releases when the engine starts in the proper direction, spinning backwards locks the crank in, hence the danger.

[Loftfield]

I'm a right-hand cranker, have been since 1962. My approach is to spin the crank a few times pulling the choke with ignition off (when engine cold). A few free starts if the weather is warm, otherwise then use the monkey grip, pull up, never push down (from fear more than from experience). I have never had a Model T spin backward save the once or twice I forgot to push up the spark lever (those times all being when I managed to stall the engine in traffic and wanted to get out of there fast). I have had a few backward spins on my 1910 Buick with a Bosch magneto, enough to have healthy respect for the possibility of what could happen! I don't use the left hand approach because using that hand places the face closer to the crank. My grandfather lost his front teeth left-hand cranking a Dort. Having been told to not urinate on the electric fence I don't feel the need to test that advice.

[Norman Kling]

Thomas,
I don't understand how pulling with the left hand would place the crank closer to the face, unless the left arm were considerably shorter than the right one? I do find that just like a left handed batter has an advantage in baseball, left hand cranking puts one facing the direction of the spark lever to quickly get there before the engine stalls.
Norm

[John Heaman]

Right hand cranking peril! I love the fancy seat covers and door treatment.

[speedytinc]

The shame of it, this T has a self starter.

[TXGOAT2]

Dadburn batt'ry was dead! Durned old Ford kicks like a mule!

[JBog]

Norm is exactly correct, except that a well-tuned car starting on BAT doesn't need to be pulled quickly. Other than that one word, I wish to associate myself with the remarks of the gentleman from Alpine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pv6HWWOGYA

What do you have to "tune" to get it that easy to crank start?

[TXGOAT2]

To start easily you need an engine with good rings and valves, a carburetor that's working right, an ignition system that's working right, including that battery or magneto, and properly adjusted transmission bands and clutch links. Clean oil of the proper weight helps, too, as does fresh gasoline. Each car seems to be a little different, and driver familiarity with a particular car will usually make starting easier. Sloppy linkages on the timer and throttle can complicate starting the car. The fact that a T will sometimes start on its own with the engine not moving at all shows that a slow pull of the crank can start the engine, especially with a good magneto or battery. I can start my car on battery as often as not just by switching the igniton key to battery. Sometimes it will do it after sitting overnight. I'd think you'd need a good magneto to start on a slow pull. When starting on battery, the system voltage is higher when using the hand crank than it would be using the starter.

[Mark Osterman]

I’ve started model Ts by gripping the crank with my right hand for over fifty years. If your car is tuned right all you need to do is retard the spark completely, engage the crank ratchet at around 6:30 and pull up. No spinning or otherwise pushing down. And as always thumb on the same side as fingers.

[Allan]

Keeping the thumb on the same side as the fingers is an oft repeated piece of advice.It makes perfect sense if one is pushing down on the crank on the 1 to 6 o'clock side, as any backfire will thrust the handle back into the V of the hand and there goes the thumb.
When pulling up on the 7 to 12 o'clock side, a backfire will simply pull the handle out of the V between the thumb and fingers. Like all things, different rules apply in different applications.

Allan from down under.

[bdtutton]

I started this thread and I have to admit that my right hand starting bad habit bit me over the weekend. I did not retard the timing all the way and when I gave it a big pull with my right hand it kicked back just enough to pull the crank out of my hand. My right hand then swung up and hit the side of the headlight and that bruised the back of my hand and hurt like heck. I think the trick is to just give it a quick, short pull and then if your hand slips off the crank you will not have an issue. I am still very new to crank starting and I am learning as I go.
.
Overall crank starting the car is not as bad as I thought it would be, but I fear the day when I stall it in traffic and have to jump out and try to restart the car in an intersection of something. It seems that will be the hurry up moment that I forget to set the brake or retard the timing....could get ugly.

[Scott_Conger]

As you get some hours on the engine, it will start easier and easier when hot. Yes, there is the fear of stalling in traffic. So long as the car is performing correctly, it should not be more effort than lifting the crank through a compression...not even a spin or a jerk...on battery, all it should take is moving the piston over TDC at pretty much any speed and it should fire

If your car has a relatively fresh engine and will not do that, well, it's time to figure out why. Worn out engines with minimal compression, well, I'd be nervous in traffic, too. Been there done that.

[TXGOAT2]

I avoid traffic so far as is possible. As you become more familiar with your car, avoiding stalling the engine becomes second nature. A Model T that stalls easily on takeoff has an issue of some sort, or the driver needs to adjust procedure. Most such issues are easily remedied. It's very beneficial for a new T operator to have a place to practice handling the car away from traffic. Accumulated hours behind the wheel will establish and refine reflex responses. Ideally, a new operator would have an experienced copilot along to avoid forming less than ideal habits. It's also very helpful to have a car that is in good running order with the various controls in proper adjustment.

[Norman Kling]

The worst problem with starting a stalled T in traffic is when the passenger does not know how or does not want to crank it. Then the passenger has to get out followed by the driver and then the driver gets in first then the passenger, which all takes time and if the persons are impaired and have a hard time climbing in or out of the car, it also takes more time. Even a 26-27 with the door on the driver side, is hard to get in or out from that side because of how narrow the door is. However, most of the cars with closed side do have starters on them.
Norm

[Hudson29]

Inspired by the discussion here I tried starting the 14 with the crank for the first time yesterday. Before this, I had always used the electric arm which works well. It was awkward grabbing the handle with the left hand and keeping the thumb on the safe side. It took a few hard pulls from the 9 o'clock position but it did fire. Then while I was standing there admiring the roaring clatter as the motor roared to life it started to falter & I remembered the drill of running around to advance the spark.

I did it a second time just to make sure I could do it. This was a warm motor just back from a run flushing the radiator so it was not a cold start.

I imagine this is one of those things that just needs practice. I have seen many T folk swing the crank easily with good results. There is a knack to master.

Paul

[Model T Mark]

Be careful! I’m living proof that an experienced Model T guy can do something stupid. I pushed down with the spark down. I’m almost a year away from surgery. It will be a year September 18. I won’t bore you with the details but I’m still sore and not very strong with my right arm and shoulder. The worst pain I have ever experienced. Take care!

[jiminbartow]

I like the way she does it and the way she looks when doing it…

B3842B90-216E-443F-9F90-ABA3CD94751D.jpeg (107.1 KiB) Viewed 7675 times

[John Heaman]

Crankin' with flair and panache. Impressin' the lady!
Plus she can drive him to emerg.

I get no kick from champagne, but I sure do from my Model T!