Dedicated Pre-War swap meet section at established meet in Duncan, Oklahoma 49 miles south of Chickasha You interested?

[JTT3]

I spoke with Kevin Hammack the organizer of a currently viable Swap meet that is interested in accommodating a prewar section in this growing swap meet.
I’m facing reality that a swap meet around springtime just dedicated to pre-war may not be viable long term but if there were a swap meet where there was a dedicated area & building for pre-war stuff including open air, covered open air & a climate controlled building for vendor spaces would that be enticing? Well the answer is there is an existing Swap meet in Duncan Ok, it is actually swapping this week.There are on site 60 available motor home spaces with electricity & water plus a community sewage dump to empty holding tanks, large vendor spaces open & slightly smaller covered at a very reasonable price. The swap meet is advertised, with flyers, digitally, community web sites & text potentially. Actively communicates with local and potentially multi regional club contacts building a data base. If you were a private pilot you could fly in and walk to the swap meet, since an airport is walking distance away
These are just a few of the things that this meet offers. The organizer is interested in a large presence of prewar vehicles & vendors, not just model T & Model A’s but rather all makes. It would require us to help make this a true opportunity for growth. If you’d like, post realistic additions you would have for a wish list to consider.
Best John

[ModelTWoods]

John, you bring up a point that is central to the viability of swap meets in this day and time. Back in the days of less inflation, going to a swap meet as a buyer or seller was affordable to the average wage earner. Nowadays, unless you live local to, or a hours drive from a swap meet, the cost of going to one is limited to the well healed hobbyist and especially the well healed, retired hobbyist with his luxury Motor Coach ! The economy and inflation is killing swap meets for the average collector. It just happens that inflation took a jump after Covid. See my comment on Gene French's post 'Chickasha Swapmeet Ends'.

[John kuehn]

Anybody know if the TMS swap meet in the Northern part of Texas has dedicated spots for prewar cars and parts? It’s a large meet that’s for just about anything and T clubs could get together if it’s allowed. Just a thought. I was thinking there were classic car meets at Chickasha. Do they still have them? If they do maybe going together would work????

Finding a place to have a prewar meet would be the first thing to do. And the cost would be a big big factor.

[Steve Jelf]

For many years there have been (or were) fall and spring meets at Chickasha. They were open to prewar and postwar cars and parts, with the latter predominating. I suspect Joe Ersland's prewar meet was an answer to that. I don't know the current status of those other meets.

[George House]

Good idea John. As costs for all essentials have steadily risen, has the demand for swap meet capable venues also risen ? I think not. And I believe the most essential ingredient is a negotiator whose read - or even wrote -
‘The Art of the Deal’. Yes, I remember the heyday of March Chickasha when Joe ran it. Most spaces were full inside and out and it was a joy pawing thru thousands of boxes and taking a dozen loads of goodies to the car. Times have changed yet sponsors still contract for the entire real estate. Operative word here would be Consolidate….or piggyback with a national thimble collectors meet for infrastructure sharing… my 2 cents

[TRDxB2]

So just spitballing here, I’m facing reality that a swap meet around springtime just dedicated to pre-war may not be viable long term but if there were a swap meet where there was a dedicated area & building for pre-war stuff including open air, covered open air & a climate controlled building for vendor spaces would that be enticing? If there were on site 60 available motor home spaces with electricity & water plus a community sewage dump to empty holding tanks, would that be of interest. Large vendor spaces let’s say 10x20 open & slightly smaller covered at a very reasonable price would that be of interest. Let’s say a swap meet that advertised, with flyers, digitally, community web sites & text potentially. Actively communicates with local and potentially multi regional club contacts building a data base. Would that be of interest. How about if you were a private pilot you could fly in and walk to the swap meet, would that help.
These are things are just a few of the things I could think of. If you’d like, post realistic additions you would have for a wish list please. Best John

Sounds like a swap meet for the rich & famous - fly in, motor homes....
1,500 miles round trip 20mpg = $262 in fuel
11hrs driving straight through to save lodging
Lodging for 3 nights $80 night $240
Food for 5 days on the road $40/day 1 person(inflation) = $200
Total $702

What was I wanting to buy?

[signsup]

I'm probably the odd ball in this discussion, but if I need a part, I go on the internet. I would only travel for parts or vehicles that were cost effective for me to transport myself. From what I have read on the swap meet posts, it's the people, not the parts. If there were workshops, live auctions, an awards dinner or other orgainized fellowship, I'd go for the people.
And, if I bought or sold something while I'm at it, that's a bonus.

[ModelTWoods]

So just spitballing here, I’m facing reality that a swap meet around springtime just dedicated to pre-war may not be viable long term but if there were a swap meet where there was a dedicated area & building for pre-war stuff including open air, covered open air & a climate controlled building for vendor spaces would that be enticing? If there were on site 60 available motor home spaces with electricity & water plus a community sewage dump to empty holding tanks, would that be of interest. Large vendor spaces let’s say 10x20 open & slightly smaller covered at a very reasonable price would that be of interest. Let’s say a swap meet that advertised, with flyers, digitally, community web sites & text potentially. Actively communicates with local and potentially multi regional club contacts building a data base. Would that be of interest. How about if you were a private pilot you could fly in and walk to the swap meet, would that help.
These are things are just a few of the things I could think of. If you’d like, post realistic additions you would have for a wish list please. Best John

Sounds like a swap meet for the rich & famous - fly in, motor homes....
1,500 miles round trip 20mpg = $262 in fuel
11hrs driving straight through to save lodging
Lodging for 3 nights $80 night $240
Food for 5 days on the road $40/day 1 person(inflation) = $200
Total $702

What was I wanting to buy?

MY SENTIMENTS, EXACTLY !

[JTT3]

Frank & Terry don’t forget electricity, indoor plumbing, showers & bathrooms including toilet paper not corn cobs, man now we’re living high off the hog. Thanks for your contribution to the cause though I’m not sure what the wish list contribution was. Maybe this thread is one you pass over but I’d encourage you to consider finding some positives. From a historical perspective, Chickasha, prior to the new buildings had ample spaces for motorhomes and generally full. Indeed there may have been some really awesome motorhomes but for the vast majority, they were functional older ones, as for a public airport there are actually folks that have small private planes, doesn’t make them rich though. Frank I drove from the New Orleans area, about the same distance as Moline for you, Terry you’re in San Antonio so about half as far & Robert in Georgia you’d have a trek. My Hotel for 2 nights & 3 days was 140 total including a huge free breakfast every morning. Now as far as fuel & time, I’m lucky I have a few friends that like to go to the swap meet so 4 adults & 2 kids made the trip. The adults split the cost on most occasions. So yes going any place for a few days is going to cost you. With a little planning perhaps that’s an option for you guys, I don’t know.
I may be wrong but starting something may not have everything you’d like at first but with growth perhaps more than you’d expect. Robert I get your situation Luray may be a good possible option if you chose to go to a swap meet.
My intention was to find a possible opportunity for those that like the mid America location and would like to find a replacement & try to find something positive as an alternative rather than find the negative an be unengaged.
Each days a choice in what you’ll make of it.
When I say motorhomes do you think Provost or a more realistic Winnebago or GMC both of these can be bought for under 8k.

[TRDxB2]

Swap meets are suffering from the same illness that Shopping Malls had/have, "Internetitis". Another factor plaguing Pre-war Swap meets is the diminishing number of pre-war buyers.

Shopping Malls were the places that offered many stores selling similar merchandise resulting in a wider selection of items to chose from not available in the old Shopping Centers (they died of Shoppingmallitis). I always wonder why it took the old Catalogue Company's (Sears, Wards, JC Winey, JC Penny) to put their catalogues on line. They all suffered AMAZONitis too.

The MTFCA Classifieds, MAFCA, AACA, eBay, Facebook, Lang's, Chaffin's, Snyder's, S&J, on-line auctions, etc.. pretty much cover what people need. I'll be going to Little Hershey in May - then to Bob's in Loves Park Illinois.

Having said that,Swap Meets still have have the advantage of hands on evaluation of items, price negotiation, elimination of shipping costs & meeting old/new friends. Not to mention the hunt for stuff you didn't know you needed.
All depends on what parts one still needs and how much one is willing to spend & where's the best place to find it.

Also curious: how much does one of those motor homes cost initially & yearly insurance & license plates?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

So just spitballing here, I’m facing reality that a swap meet around springtime just dedicated to pre-war may not be viable long term but if there were a swap meet where there was a dedicated area & building for pre-war stuff including open air, covered open air & a climate controlled building for vendor spaces would that be enticing? If there were on site 60 available motor home spaces with electricity & water plus a community sewage dump to empty holding tanks, would that be of interest. Large vendor spaces let’s say 10x20 open & slightly smaller covered at a very reasonable price would that be of interest. Let’s say a swap meet that advertised, with flyers, digitally, community web sites & text potentially. Actively communicates with local and potentially multi regional club contacts building a data base. Would that be of interest. How about if you were a private pilot you could fly in and walk to the swap meet, would that help.
These are things are just a few of the things I could think of. If you’d like, post realistic additions you would have for a wish list please. Best John

Sounds like a swap meet for the rich & famous - fly in, motor homes....
1,500 miles round trip 20mpg = $262 in fuel
11hrs driving straight through to save lodging
Lodging for 3 nights $80 night $240
Food for 5 days on the road $40/day 1 person(inflation) = $200
Total $702

What was I wanting to buy?

Tell me what long distance swap meet does not require such a budget. That's what it cost me to go Chickasha, when I used to go. Notice that there is nothing in your $702 budget that has anything to do with the swap meet itself. So, how is it that the proposed swap meet is now for the "rich & famous", especially compared to any other far away swap meet?

Nobody is forcing you to fly in with your private plane or to buy a class A motorhome...

[JTT3]

Frank in the south we just say bless your heart. I may be wrong but I believe most folks don’t buy a motor home just for going to swap meets, help me here, don’t you buy insurance and tags and maintenance for any active vehicle you use? Using that thought process we can go to the nebulous, so let’s say 6 days to go to the swap & back home that’s 6/365 or 1.64% of the yearly cost dedicated to the swap expense, what about the cost of carbon reduction on greenhouse effect what is that cost, what percentage of tax do you pay for using the roads across the nation that you never travel, why is a package that is delivered by truck called a shipment and packages that go by sea called cargo? These are life’s mysteries. You can find the negative in anything & we should consider that but at the same time seek the positive you’ll be happier I would think.

Best John

[Steve Jelf]

I have never taken a motel room at Chickasha. I have always slept in one of the buildings, either with a sleeping bag on the floor or in the Suburban. At Hershey I have stayed in the Camry Motel, with a driver's seat that leans way back. Luxury accommodations are a waste of dough if you've been camping since 1946 (and maybe before).

[JTT3]

Kevin (the organizer) said thats perfectly ok to do that at the meet in Duncan, so Steve you’ll be in like Flynn if you attend.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

As to sleeping on the ground, a Missouri State Trooper once told me, "Watch out for chiggers!" I had never heard of a chigger before. So, after that warning, there was no way I could go to sleep!

[Gene_French]

John:
Duncan , Ok. would be doable for me ... i think a pre-war area would be beneficial for most of us on this forum ... our fall AACA meet has become a 1950-1990 era meet ... i am 1 of a few early part vendors at that meet ... will remain an optimist and look for possibilities to continue a quality early auto. swapmeet in the region ...Gene French

[JTT3]

Jerry, if you’ve ever picked huckleberries in tall grass chiggers will eat you up they’re a little mite that will make you scratch until you bleed

[JTT3]

Gene I’m with you a 100%

[BobD]

Duncan, OK would be fine for me as well.

To me attending a swap meet is like a mini vacation. A chance to get out of the house see some new scenery, meet new folks and others you haven't seen in a year. In addition to parts and cars you may have never seen before.

I drove 2000 miles round trip from Arizona to Chickasha. My total purchases were a T shirt a pair of Model A pedal pads and an old Durant hubcap.
Nonetheless, I enjoyed the experience. For all those who pooh pooh the swap meets, stay home and miss out on a unique experience.

[tdump]

When I went to "chickensaw" as i called it because I couldn't spell it right, I think my whole trip stuff and all was less than 3000 dollars. and that was staying other members a couple nights, I went out with a empty truck and 10 foot trailer and when I got home the trailer hitch would bump high spots in the road and I could not see out the back of the truck, everything stacked high.
so room and board on the way out there, gas, "stuff" and food and all. Yes it was a good chunk of change,but it was a investment of some of my workers comp settlement for partial loss of use of my left arm,right leg and back. I still enjoy the stuff I got out there and some is still yet to be put to use. and I sold some of what I brought home and that put funds back in my pocket. I intended to do it again next year for the fun of it, Don't need as many parts as I did back then,so probably wouldn't have spent as much money. 2 trips to Luray put me way ahead of the game on parts for finishing projects.

[John kuehn]

Surely by now the organizers of the Duncan Swap Meet know that the Chickasha Pre War meet is shutting down.
It would be nice if the antique and PreWar stuff could be in one area or as much as possible. Seems like it’s a larger place than Chickasha if I was reading their information correctly. It would only be more beneficial to them if the pre war cars and parts went there it seems to me.
Going by their website they are pretty well organized. They have some pretty good sponsers so if they have that it’s a plus.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Jerry, if you’ve ever picked huckleberries in tall grass chiggers will eat you up they’re a little mite that will make you scratch until you bleed & then they get bad.

In that case, I want nothing to do with chiggers!

(or huckleberries...)

[tdump]

Jerry, if you’ve ever picked huckleberries in tall grass chiggers will eat you up they’re a little mite that will make you scratch until you bleed & then they get bad.

In that case, I want nothing to do with chiggers!

(or huckleberries...)

Oh the chiggers enjoy the scratching,it makes them dance a jig! And it always seems to be in a place you can't scratch in public! Oh

[TRDxB2]

Will vinegar kill chiggers?
This hack works because chiggers hate the smell of vinegar, so it will repel them from the area. Rather than going towards the scent, they will run in the opposite direction. It's actually an effective bug repellent in general — it can also keep away ants, fruit flies, and aphids.

Do coffee grounds repel chiggers?
Spread a little coffee grounds here, spread a little there, all over the lawn and presto – the nightmare of pests like chiggers is gone.

[JTT3]

John, yes they do in fact Kevin Hammack (Duncan swap organizer) came by the Chickasha swap to hand out flyers to the Duncan Swap to whom ever would take one. He talked to several Vendors and they told him about the announcement of the closing and immediately was interested in the possibility to accommodate the Pre War hobbiest & vendors. He is trying to bend over backwards to make it happen but in reality it’s us that will need to help get the word out. Currently he has no resources or contacts that are willing to share the data to carry forward but that may change after the mourning of the end of a family owned effort to keep this swap meet going. Kevin did say he has heard from a few folks already but needs a more robust effort to make it truly successful. He will be reaching out soon, currently he is prepping for the Duncan meet that opens this week.
Best John

[John kuehn]

Thanks for the reply and getting the word out these days would be through the MTFCA website and the Duncan swap meet information mentioning Antique and Pre War vehicles. Of course next year the information should have been out by then for any kind of noticeable success. Or so it would seem.

[Gene_French]

John:
i am willing to reserve 3 inside spaces now ... will try calling to see if pre-payment can be made to reserve for next year ... would be great to have you and the Temples as neighbors ...Gene French

[dobro1956]

We are interested in going. We also would need 3 spaces.

[JTT3]

Currently Kevin is wrapped up with the Swap meet he’s putting on now, he told me they have sold close to 500 spaces for the current meet. Kevin also said that if you decide to participate this next year be sure to say you are Pre War and if you want inside a building, open air or covered open air. He is working on setting up the dedicated areas for A Pre War section. I saw a rough draft of some of the spaces, they are big. This Facility is larger than the Pre War swap we just attend/had. Kevin’s note;
The upper will be the new layout, 10’x20’ spaces the lower is now, It adds approx 120 spaces.
From his flyers on spaces
Indicate Space Arrangement (Side by Side, Pull Through, etc.) & Booth Number if Available
Mail Request to:
Duncan Swap Meet
C/O Kevin Hammack
1009 Oakview Drive
Duncan,
Outside 10'x20'
$35
Inside 10'x18'
$45
Covered 10'x25'
$45
Climate Controlled 10x10
$40
RV Hook-Ups (per day)
$30

[JTT3]

This not official but Kevin is putting together some flyer proofs any thing you would like to add or change?
Best John

[Herb Iffrig]

Thank you, John, for working on this. If Chickasha does end, this looks like an alternative.

[John kuehn]

Looks like that would work. The Pre-War dedicated section is a good idea that should draw very well. Thanks for taking the time to do this. When the announcement page gets finalized that’s the time to start promoting and get the word out.

[JTT3]

Thanks you guys, I think this could be a very good opportunity for use in talking with Kevin he said that he needs to go up to 1948 on the dedicated area. Again we’re just exchanging ideas but will know something soon. Here’s an ask, if you have contact info for other makes of early cars member/officers can we get some contact info please. Best John

[38 coupe]

Anybody know if the TMS swap meet in the Northern part of Texas has dedicated spots for prewar cars and parts? It’s a large meet that’s for just about anything and T clubs could get together if it’s allowed. Just a thought. I was thinking there were classic car meets at Chickasha. Do they still have them? If they do maybe going together would work????

Finding a place to have a prewar meet would be the first thing to do. And the cost would be a big big factor.

The swap meet at the Texas Motor Speedway (TMS) is Pate. I'm a member of one of the clubs that gathers together to put on Pate Swap Meet. We would be happy to have a dedicated pre-war section at Pate starting next year in our expansion area. We are in the final stages of getting ready for this year's swap meet, and it will be big. We expect to sell about 10,000 spaces total this year, with over 9,000 already sold. Some of the regular vendors from Chickasha also go to Pate already.

Personally I'm sad to see the Chickasha pre-war meet end. I think I was at the first one in 1991, I would have been 11 years old, and I was at the last one this year. I didn't enjoy the Oklahoma weather much, but the parts hunting and friendship was good.

[JTT3]

Fred thanks for the response, I think having something there too would be great. I think for folks in the North & Northeast it would be a deal breaker being another 3-4 hours driving but in addition to something in Oklahoma sounds great.

Best John

[Upholstery Mike]

I am contemplating attending both Duncan and Pate if they have pre-war sections. I would drive down from Minnesota.
Mike Francis
Classtique Upholstery

[JTT3]

Kevin is currently configuring the pre war spaces in the buildings for folks that are looking for climate control. Give him a call if your interested he said he’s already received a decent number of spaces requested.

[DHort]

Do they have a booth where they sell huckleberries?

[JTT3]

I’ll be a huckleberry,

you’re no Daisy you’re no Daisy at all

[Bob_Rogers]

On a whim I went to the Duncan Swap Meet last Saturday. Parking and admission was free. I estimate that about 20% of the items for sale were non-auto related (Puppies!). A mish-mash of stuff. I walked thru it in about an hour so take that for what it’s worth. T stuff: Two wheels and several rims - way overpriced. Several rusty fenders - unknown price. Couple of coils “rare”.
I did see a couple of flathead V8 blocks, heads, and manifolds. I did buy a vintage machinists tool box for $15 - had to buy something! If there was a dedicated area for pre-war stuff I would go again. And, good conversations with other motor heads.

[JTT3]

Thanks Bob, indeed that’s what Kevin is working on. I wouldn’t imagine that in the past you would see a wide variety of prewar since generally speaking Chickasha would have been a week or 10 days earlier. This could turn out great.

[Gene_French]

John:
i have a check headed toward Duncan, Ok. for 4 spaces ... not sure i will need 4 , but the 4 for the price of 3 is good for the first 50 vendors ...will probably bring my 12" trailer... it has a bunch of model A and T parts on it now including a 26/27 wire wheel chassis with 4 wire wheels ...i will promote this meet at the Mile high model T swapmeet and our AACA meet and send out flyers to customers ... this meet will include a general swapmeet area and the pre 1948 section ... being a general swapmeet should provide more foot traffic than a purely pre-war meet ... more buyers is better ...hope to see many of the regular model T vendors there ... should be a good meet ...Gene French

[Gene_French]

John:
spoke with Kevin Hammack today ... plans for the next year swapmeet are inplace with a designated area for early parts and cars ... will be receiving a map of the inside spaces and the swapmeet flyers to send out with my sales ... this looks to be an already well established general swapmeet that now will include a specific area for early ( up to 1948 ) auto parts and cars ...food and drink vendors include the High School band booster group...the fair grounds has inside spaces , showers and modern facilities like the Chickasha meet at the Grady County fairgrounds... i am looking forward to this meet , just a bit farther for me here in Colorado ...will post updates as the year progresses ... Gene French

[BobD]

Thanks for the update Gene. Keep us posted.