Wizard or Simmons flapper

[Harley_97]

It's been 11 years ago that posted looking for information to identify a carburetor. Turned out to be a Wizard or Simmons, no markings on it.
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/4 ... 1401892072
Since then that carburetor has been sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I'm now retired and thought I would take a shot at bringing it back to life.
The two things needed for it are the flapper and the main jet screw or spray nozzle. I decided to start with making a mold and pour a flapper, since I don't know of anyone making and selling flappers. I've been working from pictures and a drawing of flappers that I found on the forum. I made my mold based off of the drawing, the one dimension missing from the drawing is the thickness of the flapper body. I'm wondering if someone that has one could measure it and post that dimension. Also, any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[Harley_97]

This is my first attempt at casting.

[Harley_97]

The second attempt came out much better.

[George House]

Produce them. Sell them. If you would’ve asked before casting them, I’d suggest Scott Conger or Corey Walker making one for you. The latter made a flapper for my Simmons and it works great !

[Pep C Strebeck]

How does the weight of your new casting compare to the weight of the original?

[Kevin Pharis]

Now for the fun part… machining it! Good work, hope to see pics of the car runnin soon

[Tmooreheadf]

Kenny Edmondson used to make flappers. Don’t know if he still does. I don’t have his contact info.

[Harley_97]

Thanks George, I will contact them about parts soon.
Joseph, the second one I cast weighs 14.125 grams, not too far off.
Kevin, it is pretty much to size now, just need to bore the hole for the pin. I was just testing out mold, I poured solder in to make my test parts.
I'll refine my mold a little more in order to get closer to 11 grams.

[Kenny Edmondson]

The originals were made out of a white metal, probably zinc. If you used lead to make the flapper it will probably not hold up and more than likely won’t run correctly. If the weight is off, the mixture setting for the idle will not match the required mixture setting of a higher RPM.
I had a guy make a mold and cast some out of lead. I couldn’t get him to do zinc. I’ve sent a few of the lead ones to a couple people to try and cast but was never notified of any success. I have 1 good original flap and one lead one left that I kept for future reference on making a mold. I will check the thickness and post tomorrow when I’m back home.

[Kevin Pharis]

How bout machining from solid…? I currently make several Winfield components that are equally difficult to hold onto, and would be willing to look closer at the project. Could also use 3D modeling to predict the weight and balance before making any cuts…


If continuing down the casting path, get some old babbit. Tin based so a bit lighter than led

[Harley_97]

Kenny, thanks for the additional information on the type of material, please do post the dimension in question. Also, can you confirm the other dimensions on the drawing? I don't know who made the drawing, I think I found it on the forum years ago. I'm not planning on trying to make one from lead, just using lead to test out the mold, I thought maybe brass or aluminum. I'm thinking the type of material maybe isn't as important as the balance.
Kevin, that's an interesting idea, 3d modeling. 3D printing maybe?
Could it be cast out of an epoxy?

Roger

[Kevin Pharis]

3D metal printing is relatively expensive and materials are somewhat limited, and like any other casting you still need to finish machine where needed. For this project I would simply cut from solid material

[Kenny Edmondson]

Here’s a few various flaps. The left (top) one is original and out of an NOS Simmons that’s never been ran. It weighs 10 grams.
The center flap is a 3D printed one that weighs 2 grams and is very accurate. The right one (bottom) is the one I had casted that weighs 17 grams.
I have the file that’s been modified from a 3D printing program to a usable CNC type FILE if Kevin or someone wants to give a shot at making them. Let me know and I can email it.

[Kenny Edmondson]

The measurements are both the same at .125”. They are offset though for the various functions. Let me know if there is a different measurement you need.

[Daisy Mae]

Another suggestion when sand casting, is to use a thin rod and introduce relief channels in the mold to help draw the metal and eliminate the irregular edges and bubble voids as is seen in your first attempt. Easily trimmed/filed off in final finishing, but produces a more pure casting.

[Harley_97]

Kenny, thanks for all the pictures, Measurements and advice. would you email me the CNC type FILE, my son is a tool n die maker, and I'll have him make me one.

Thanks
Roger

[Kenny Edmondson]

Roger, I send you a message.