Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

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Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:12 pm

So my T's driveshaft is flipped upside down, with the grease cups facing downward. Not how I'd have done it but that's how the previous owner did it, so for now I'll have to live with it. There is only the smaller grease cup towards the rear of the car on the driveshaft, and a bolt where the large universal joint grease cup should be. I ordered a universal joint grease cup from Lang's and every now and then I take out the bolt and put on the grease cup (with it on the hand brake lever is blocked) and I screw in some grease. When I first did this, she took about 8 grease cups of grease before I stopped and replaced the bolt. This weekend I decided to tinker a little, and add some more grease on this week's round of lubing, and it took about 5 more cups full of grease and didn't stop taking grease, but I ran out of time and had to stop and head back to university. Am I packing too much grease into my universal joint? I've been taking care to keep Lizzie well lubricated, but this seems like too much grease to fit inside the universal joint. Maybe the previous owner never bothered to grease it and now I'm just filling it up to where it should be?
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:27 pm

Ya should have just installed a zerk fitting and pumped it in. Would not have to removed it when done. Empty should be the good part of a tube of grease to fill. You need to shoot a little in the small cup on the drive shaft just to be safe, it greases the bushing. 13 caps full, not even getting close but at least there is a little bit in there. I am surprised you got any in unless they enlarge the hole in the bell. The hole in the bell lines up with the grease cup on top and torque tube angled down, but maybe you have just enough opening in it so the grease flow in.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by DHort » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:41 am

I opened mine up last month and it was empty. Just some oil in there. I usually pump 10-15 pumps in there. I guess that wasn't enough and I have no clue where it is going.


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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:30 am

Now I'm even more confused! :D So I guess my next project is going to just be me sitting under Lizzie and turning cup after cup of grease into that universal joint! Going to invest in a zerk cap and a gun!

Also, when I adjust the low band, should I hear the GRRRRRRRR sound when the pedal is fully depressed, or is that the low band slipping too much?
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Original Smith » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:50 am

The best thing to do is pack it full of grease when you have the engine or rear end out.


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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:54 am

I bought a small grease gun that you fill with grease by hand. It has a small tip on the end that I stick down into the grease cup and pump the whole tube in.

Stephen

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by StevenS » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:19 am

I just did mine this weekend. I packed the U-joint with grease, and when it was all coupled up I shot about 70 pumps with a grease gun.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by troutjohn » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:26 am

If using a grease gun, how do you know when to stop? Also if overfilled where does the extra grease go?

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:49 am

Depending on fit of 4th main to tail shaft and upper drive shaft bushing, grease will ether flow into the engine or down the drive shaft. More then likely will show itself around the piece that holds the bell to back of hogs head/pan, which is were it will leak out later making a mess on your nice floor, marking its spot. ;)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:46 pm

If you overfill, grease will ooze out of the collar holdng the ball. That's when you stop pumping and wipe off the ooze.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:03 pm

I've had the same experience as Steve - it comes out around the collar. The only grease the universal gets is what it slings around inside the bell so more is better in my opinion. You do want to wipe off the grease that oozes out or you will find clumps of grease under the car.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:18 pm

you are on the right track. It takes a lot of grease, and if your grease does NOT contain graphite, it won't hurt if some gets in the oil. The oil will dilute the grease. The grease is needed not only to grease the universal joint, but also the 4th main, and if you have enough grease in the joint, it will actually help keep the oil from going through the 4th main and either on the ground or down the driveshaft to the rear axle. The small cup only need a turn. Just enough to be sure you are getting grease to the bushing. I really don't know why some people turn the tube upside down. it does interfere with the brake cross shaft. and on my T's I can reach the cup from under the car with some difficulty, however, It is good to remove the inspection plate from time to time and clean out the strainer screen, so whenever you remove the plate, you can also adjust the reverse and brake bands and inspect the inside of the transmission and at that time you can also grease the two cups while the floorboard is out.
Concerning the noise. If it makes that noise when the car is moving, it could just be noisy gears and the bushings. Most Model T's are a bit noisy. In fact they will even make a little noise in neutral. But if the band is slipping, you would notice it when you start out in low on a hill, the car will be very sluggish starting out and if you try to give it more gas the engine will just race but the car will not pick up speed. Note: if it is slipping, don't let it slip for very long or you risk a cracked drum.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:57 pm

I've been using this grease:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2833GR.aspx
It's gray like graphite, and now I'm worried it has graphite in it and I might end up harming the Magneto. :(
Does anyone else use this grease for their universal joints?

When I step on the low pedal Lizzie responds quickly to any throttle inputs. My concern about the low pedal making a GRRRRR sound while driving in low stems from when I first got her and tightened the low band about 1 full turn and the noise stopped completely when I stepped on the low pedal, but it made a faint GRRRRRRR sound when in neutral, leading me to believe that I over-tightened the band and it was dragging in neutral (she would also move forward slowly on level ground). I loosened the band until the GRRRRR in neutral sound stopped and she stopped creeping forward quickly in neutral. Now she doesn't move in neutral on level ground. :D
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:03 pm

Brendon start a new post with your questions about the low please so people can reply to it.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:14 pm

My apologies, I didn't want to make more threads and spam the board with questions. I think the low band is fine, I'm just being overly-cautious. I'd feel terrible if I damaged a Model T through newbie mistakes.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:05 pm

It should not creep when in neutral, nor should the engine turn when you push it in neutral on level surface. Since it has stopped creeping, but does respond to your gas lever, I think you have it adjusted right. The pedal shaft should start moving inward about half way down and fully depressed at about one and one half inch from the floorboard. If the pedal stops higher than that when you push it down it is too tight.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:08 pm

Your grease might have molybdnum in it. That is also not very good for the magneto, but if any damage has been done, it is too late. Best thing now is to change the oil and use a different grease from now on. If the magneto continues to work, don't worry about it.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by DHort » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:17 pm

It is better to post twice with two separate questions. More people will see them and you might receive better advice. Otherwise your second question will get lost. We were all newbies once. No one here will complain you ask too many questions. We would all rather you do something right so you can enjoy your car, and we do not want you doing it wrong and suffering because you did not ask.


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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 pm

It does have molybdenum in it. That’s unfortunate. What kind of damage will it do to the magneto?
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:43 pm

Its_Always_T_Time wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 pm
It does have molybdenum in it. That’s unfortunate. What kind of damage will it do to the magneto?
You would have to put a LOT of grease in the u joint for it to get into the engine at all much less cause a problem with the magneto. I wouldn't worry about it unless the mag stops working.

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:51 pm

Thank you! My magneto is running strong and I plan on cleaning the mag post too. When I flip the driveshaft back into the correct position I'll clean out the current grease and replace it with non-molybdenum and non-graphite grease. Would lithium grease work? one of my dorm mates was talking about how he uses lithium grease for his classic car.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by ivaldes1 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:08 am

You can flip the drive shaft tube over. As you can see from this picture: download/file.php?id=65457&mode=view the drive shaft tube is upside down. I turned it back over: Take the bolts out of the spool, take the radius rod bolts at the differential off. Put 2 smaller bolts into the spool at the differential to fix it in place leaving the other end of the spool/drive shaft tube loose. You can then rotate the drive shaft. If you are worried about the gasket getting bunched up or if it does get bunched up remove the pin from the u-joint and temporarily remove the u-joint. The drive shaft tube will slide up the shaft and give you room to rotate or take it all the way off and replace the gasket while flipping the tube over.
Its_Always_T_Time wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:12 pm
So my T's driveshaft is flipped upside down, with the grease cups facing downward. Not how I'd have done it but that's how the previous owner did it, so for now I'll have to live with it. There is only the smaller grease cup towards the rear of the car on the driveshaft, and a bolt where the large universal joint grease cup should be. I ordered a universal joint grease cup from Lang's and every now and then I take out the bolt and put on the grease cup (with it on the hand brake lever is blocked) and I screw in some grease. When I first did this, she took about 8 grease cups of grease before I stopped and replaced the bolt. This weekend I decided to tinker a little, and add some more grease on this week's round of lubing, and it took about 5 more cups full of grease and didn't stop taking grease, but I ran out of time and had to stop and head back to university. Am I packing too much grease into my universal joint? I've been taking care to keep Lizzie well lubricated, but this seems like too much grease to fit inside the universal joint. Maybe the previous owner never bothered to grease it and now I'm just filling it up to where it should be?

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:45 am

Best to start from the beginning and focus on your original question "am I over-greasing my universal shaft" and ignore all the other issues.
The question and your application of grease suggests that you may be loosing grease somewhere. All depends on how often you are trying to add grease. If its not coming out of the u-joint housing and making a mess of the underside of your T then its either finding its way into the drive shaft or into the engine. So you already know the answer on what you need to do next.

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:14 pm

My take is it is ether dry or had very little to start with. Which is nether here on there, it needs to be filled one way or the other.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:13 pm

When I looked inside the bolt hole where the grease cup is supposed to be it was totally dry, I think the previous owner never greased it.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by DHort » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:19 pm

It is not that hard to remove the rear axle, turn the tube around, and reinstall the axle. Then you can check the condition of the universal and fill it full of grease. That is what I would do.


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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by rickg » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:25 pm

If you have a new Warford transmission you have to turn the turn the tube over, i installed grease fittings and grease it several times a year.

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 pm

I do not have a Warford, my T is stock. But thank you for the info, it will come in handy when I buy my first TT! This winter I will remove the rear axle and flip the drive shaft back the proper way. I'll make another post about it asking for advice when that day comes. :D
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Fordwright » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:51 pm

Its_Always_T_Time wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 pm
I do not have a Warford, my T is stock. But thank you for the info, it will come in handy when I buy my first TT! This winter I will remove the rear axle and flip the drive shaft back the proper way. I'll make another post about it asking for advice when that day comes. :D
I'm a little confused. When you flip the rear axle, doesn't that also flip the differential, causing the wheels to turn the opposite way?


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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:54 pm

By flipping I mean the grease cups are facing towards the floor and I want to flip it back so it's facing the sky.
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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by DHort » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm

Greg. When you flip the rear axle in this instance, you are really just turning the drive shaft tube 180 degrees and leaving the axle in place.

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by ivaldes1 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:55 pm

Yes I made the same mistake just recently on Hay Wagon to Speedster Project. See my description above for a way to flip it back over.
Its_Always_T_Time wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:54 pm
By flipping I mean the grease cups are facing towards the floor and I want to flip it back so it's facing the sky.

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Fordwright » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:06 pm

I never understood something about over-greasing. If too much grease will break the seal, how did the grease escape?

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Re: Am I "over-greasing" my Universal Joint?

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:47 pm

The U-joint housing does not have any seals. So grease can and does flow past the driveshaft bushing down the tube, around the bell or into the engine, but mostly around the bell. Any oil getting past the 4th main washes it out too.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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