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Professor Fate
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Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Fri May 10, 2024 10:10 pm

Engine runs smoothly at idle. At half throttle or greater in high gear, I'm getting an intermittent skip that I can reduce by adjusting mixture on the NH Carb.
I'm going to check and regap plugs, check coils, check timer, and check the car running in the dark for sparking.
I have black rubber fuel line connecting steel line. I've drained the carb bowl and cleaned the sediment bulb.
What else should I look at?
Thanks!
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Moxie26
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Moxie26 » Sat May 11, 2024 7:06 am

Check the contacts inside the coil box. May have to wire brush with a Dremel, re -arch curve to increase spring pressure on all ignition coil contacts, and Dremel brush the three individual coil contacts.. is any coil movement detected when pushed from front to back or side to side,.... If so, thin wood shims may have to be placed between the coil and the metal part of the box to stabilize and increase pressure on coil contacts so connection is not interrupted .

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat May 11, 2024 9:18 am

If your float valve is a modern replacement, its opening may be .100", a common cause of fuel starvation. If I remember correctly, the original had an opening of .125".
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


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Re: Skip.....

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat May 11, 2024 9:19 am

I would also check EVERYTHING related to fuel delivery. Your carburetor bowl fuel level may be dropping at higher engine speed/load as suggested above.
If the problem is reduced or eliminated with a full gas tank, it might point to a fuel delivery issue.
Engine vibration could bring out problems in the coil box or related wiring at certain speeds. Coil box contacts or chaffed wiring problems may show up at certain speeds.
At higher speeds and loads, demand on the ignition system increases. Just about any issue with the ignition system could contribute to a miss at higher speeds and loads.

Valve clearance and spring pressure could be an issue. Too little clearance might cause poor valve seating at higher speeds and loads.
I had a car that had been running very smoothly under all conditions. It began to show a miss at hot idle and other symptoms, such as jerkiness at low speeds and generally reduced performance. Once it cooled off, the problem disappeared. The problem proved to be an exhaust valve adjusted just a little too tight. Adding a few thousandths to the clearance eliminated the problem.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 11, 2024 11:22 am

Sounds like fuel level. The recommended setting is a starting point.
Set the fuel mixture for best running @ hi speed.
Go back to idle.
If you need to increase the mixture adjustment for best idle running, fuel level is to low.
If you need to decrease the mixture adjustment for best idle running, the fuel level is to high.

Assuming you don't have a flow problem, like a new viaton seat that hasn't been modified for OEM fuel flow.
You can test for this condition with a clear plastic tube connected over the drain body, less plug. Tie the hose up. Mark the hose for fuel level @ rest. Note if the level goes down during hi speed running. That would indicate a restricted fuel flow.


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Sat May 11, 2024 10:15 pm

Thanks to all for ideas and recommendations. I'll work on it this this week and see what happens....
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Moxie26
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Moxie26 » Sun May 12, 2024 10:40 am

Professor... Here's hoping for better weather this week.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Sun May 12, 2024 9:50 pm

Cleaned the timer, checked all wiring, checked coil box innards, and it's now skipping at idle and at half throttle or more. All plugs are firing, compressions good, and there's no intake or carb gasket leak.
Sometimes I can adjust the mixture and have it smooth out for a bit, but the skip always returns. I think I may have sucked some rusty crud into the NH based on a recent sediment bulb clean out.
New plugs and a carb swap tomorrow.... possible coil test to follow Tuesday if I can't get it to run right tomorrow.

I tried setting up the carb mixture as advised above. Skipped at idle and at half throttle too. It's a mess...
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Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon May 13, 2024 11:52 am

If you haven't already done so, look for vacuum leaks between the block and the intake manifold. What style gaskets are you using there?


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Re: Skip.....

Post by Moxie26 » Mon May 13, 2024 1:21 pm

Spark advance 4 to 6 notches at idle. Full advance at idle may give your problem skip.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Mon May 13, 2024 7:16 pm

Intake leak negative... used the rings not the one piece.

Advance may be too much at idle. Will check again in a.m.
when I get a new set of plugs installed. If no change, off to
ask a friend to put my coils thru his ROBO STROBE...

Last steps will be a carb swap if needed, and draining the fuel tank....
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Topic author
Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Tue May 14, 2024 3:17 pm

Coils checked ok.... on to other things....
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MKossor
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Re: Skip.....

Post by MKossor » Tue May 14, 2024 7:20 pm

Find someone in your area with an ECCT coil tester to properly adjust your coils for equal and consistent firing Time to rule out coil adjustment.

Cleaning a worn out timer may serve little purpose, what type of timer and what condition are the contacts in?
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Tue May 14, 2024 8:25 pm

20240512_150942.jpg
New Day having a bad day.
Dirty.
Last edited by Professor Fate on Tue May 14, 2024 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic author
Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Tue May 14, 2024 8:30 pm

Coils checked by my over qualified and expert friend today on a Robo Strobe.
I have new plugs to swap, and a new NEW DAY TIMER to install. If. If that dosent fix it, then I'm also going to swap the NH out for a good rebuild. Draining the fuel tank is also a thought
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Re: Skip.....

Post by RajoRacer » Tue May 14, 2024 8:41 pm

Is that the timer that was on the car ??????????? That could definitely cause a "SKIP" !!!


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Tue May 14, 2024 8:48 pm

Was and still is on the car. Only has 400 miles on it.
I used some 400 and 600 sandpaper to clean it up along with brake cleaner. Still runs like crap.
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Moxie26
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Moxie26 » Tue May 14, 2024 9:36 pm

Check your spark plugs. I've had good response with.. 0.025"gap.... and check 100% continuity between center electrode on spark plug and spark plug wire terminal on top.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 pm

Will check spark plugs as you say.
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Steve Jelf
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue May 14, 2024 10:54 pm

Your New Day repop looks like Hell. You want not only to clean out the nasty-looking stuff, but also flatten it down enough to remove the divots. That may not cure the skip, but a bad timer can do it. It's hard to believe that has only 400 miles on it. Makes me wonder if there's something seriously wrong with the brush.


IMG_2987 copy.JPG
Even an original New Day can require a makeover.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Re: Skip.....

Post by MKossor » Tue May 14, 2024 11:48 pm

Well, there's your problem! What Steve said.
Coils checked by my over qualified and expert friend today on a Robo Strobe.
A Novice with the correct tool can achieve results a seasoned expert can only hope to impervising with tools designed for another purpose. The ECCT directly measures the time a coil takes to fire spark with 0.000020 second accuracy. All other coil test tools measure average coil current (Amperes) flowing in the coil while firing hundreds of sparks. Amperes is Not time to fire spark! It's just an I direct approximation of how long each coil takes to fire spark.
This method works reasonably well Adjusting all 4 coils for the same average electrical current IF ALL 4 coils are EXACTLY the same electrically and mechanically.

Once you get your timer woes fixed, get your coils properly adjusted for equal and consistent firing Time using an ECCT to enjoy optimal engine ignition Timing performance.
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Wed May 15, 2024 3:18 am

20240515_031052.jpg
Steve's comment about brush condition made me look at the picture closer. The brush surface looks like it's far from being smooth based on the scraping on the timer contacts and plastic.
If anyone close to me has an ECCT, please reach out to me.
Thanks as always.
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speedytinc
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Re: Skip.....

Post by speedytinc » Wed May 15, 2024 8:24 am

Looks like the timer body plastic has melted & redeposited on your contacts or some kind of lube was used like Vaseline.
I am betting this is one of them soft repop timers. Original & the better repop new days don't do this.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed May 15, 2024 8:53 am

Improperly adjusted coils will destroy a New Day timer VERY quickly. Even one badly adjusted coil will cause damage
New Day timers should never be oiled or greased. Oil leaking into a New Day timer will cause trouble.
The best way BY FAR to set up T coils is by using Mr. Kosser's ECCT device.

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Re: Skip.....

Post by RajoRacer » Wed May 15, 2024 11:10 am

Dan - can you post a photo of the front of that timer ? John might be on to something !


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Re: Skip.....

Post by Moxie26 » Wed May 15, 2024 1:41 pm

The wear pattern inside that new day timer kind of indicates to me at least that the timing cover needs to be centered onto the camshaft. The wear pattern offset of a circle will give erratic spark plug firing.


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Wed May 15, 2024 7:57 pm

20240515_162415.jpg
Foggy fuel isn't helping any either.
More work to be done tomorrow.....
Checked a bunch of things today. Will start it tomorrow after more work.
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TXGOAT2
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Re: Skip.....

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri May 17, 2024 9:14 am

Gert the timer problem straightened out and the coils adjusted, then drain all the fuel and replace with fresh. I'd add 6 ounces of MMO and 1/2 pint of B-12 Chemtool to the fres, full tank of gas and go for a drive on the road at moderate speeds. Stale fuel can gum valve stems and cause sticking among other problems. My dad bought a new lawn mower at a Fall sale. The following Spring, he put gas he had saved over the winter in it. It ran for about 5 minutes until it stopped with a stuck intake valve. I had considerable difficulty getting the valves unstuck and the tar-like deposits removed from the valve stems and combustion chamber.


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Re: Skip.....

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat May 18, 2024 12:57 pm

About stale gasoline:
From what I've seen and read, all ethanol gas does not decay at the same rate. Weather conditions and how it is stored can make a big difference, and some gas goes stale a lot quicker than other gas. Hot, humid weather may be the worst. But high elevation may encourage evaporation of "co-solvents" and other more volatile blend fractions, and lead to decay, hydration, and separation.
Modern "gasoline" is designed for use in closed, non-vented systems and fuel systems that operate under pressure. A cool, dry environment is best for storage, if available. Taping over the vent might help keep moisture out of the tank and prevent some evaporation. I wouldn't plug it tightly. Some of the metals in antique fuel systems may contribute to ethanol gas decay. Old systems may have steel, copper, brass, solder, lead, iron and "pot metal" in contact with the gasoline.


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Sat May 18, 2024 2:57 pm

Issues all resolved... water in gas and a New Day having a "bad day." Drained the gas and refilled with fresh fuel, and I refaced the timer to clean up that mess. Car's running great again. I also regapped plugs, checked out the NH carb, and had my coils tested.
Evidently I made the mistake of putting the car away for winter without taping up the vent, and not giving the gas tank a healthy glug of MMO.
I've always done that and have never had a problem until now..... multiple lessons learned here, and with lots of kind help from friends both on the forum and off. Many thanks!
Happy motoring!
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Re: Skip.....

Post by MKossor » Sat May 18, 2024 8:35 pm

Great news on resolving your timer and fuel issues.
and had my coils tested
Still highly recommend you find someone in your area with an ECCT coil tester and have your coils adjusted for equal and consistent firing Time; I think you'll find it well worth the effort.
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com


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Professor Fate
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Re: Skip.....

Post by Professor Fate » Sat May 18, 2024 8:41 pm

Will do. Thanks!
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