Vehicle archeology

[Couchsachraga]

As a newer T owner I'm having fun learning about the history of the vehicles, in part figure out what combination mine consists of. Lots of resources out there for "dating" the vehicle, including here, which I really appreciate. So far I've determined the following - I'm wondering if there are any other obvious portions I can determine:
-Engine - July 8, 1924 (that was the easy one!)
-High radiator - post mid 1923 ('24 model year)
-high cowl, again '24 model year or later (looked in passenger compartment as per this post: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1294054892 )
-straight windshield ('22 or earlier) - I'm thinking the supports and windscreen were replaced at some point given the high cowl and engine date, but who knows!

I read a comment about the attachment points for the 1 vs 2 man tops being different, but I've not figured out if that is actually true, or if it applies to roadsters or not. Here are the places I see - I'm curious if anyone has information they can share, as well as if there are other portions of the T that would help sort out how much is '24 or '25 vs earlier.

I'm in the middle of replacing the band linings and manifold gaskets, and hope to be on the road soon, though most of this vehicles use is winter time (narrow (38") Snowmobile)

[Humblej]

It is a 1924 with the wrong windshield.

[John kuehn]

What is interesting about your car is that it has the top brackets that appear on the later mid 23 to 25 bodies. The earlier low cowl cars have the top rear brackets coming over the top rear of the body instead of going through it. The terminology 2 man top is for the low cowl Touring cars only because they have the middle post that the middle top bows go on. The later cars don’t have the middle bows but only the back bow and usually 1 man can raise the top. Others can clarify but that’s generally the way it is.

The low cowl years leading into 23 to 25 can get confusing because of the transition and how to exactly date a car. It’s definitely not an exact science because when the bodies were shipped to the branches and when they finally assembled among other things!

Your car has the straight low cowl windshield but appears to have the later body which usually has the slanted windshield. If your car is a high cowl car and has the straight windshield which others can comment what the date should be. So the question is should a straight windshield be on a high cowl car. The engine may or may not be correct either because the engines would interchange for the 17-25 years. A lot could have happened after nearly 100 years and it did! It may have the wrong windshield on it.

A good source that you may know of is the encyclopedia that can be found on this website thats answers about the Model T history and the progressive changes when they occurred. It’s one of the best info guides there is! Check it out!

[Steve Jelf]

I would like to see more clues: Front view; passenger side view of the whole door; hand brake quadrant; view of the firewall (engine side) including the terminal board.

[Steve Jelf]

John is correct. The encyclopedia is very helpful. Online it is abridged. I prefer the complete version.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

[Couchsachraga]

Thank you all for the responses! I'll get more images up this weekend when I'm back working on it. For the passenger side door (only door) interior or exterior? Here are some images I've already taken, but as they were not taken specifically for the purpose of dating the vehicle they are likely not good enough. Some may look a little odd (door and brake quadrant) as I had to lighten them up significantly to bring out the features.


I did measure the width of the firewall, and it also aligns with a '24 and up model year (28").

At a minimum the windscreen has certainly been replaced, but I expect to find more. I have a verbal history of the vehicle only, and know it was last restored in the early 60's in upstate NY.

Thank you all very much! Looks like I'll be looking for a '24 or so slant windshield with safety glass and bows for a one man top...

[John kuehn]

More all around pictures will definitely help. The ones you posted of the body seem to show your car may have been put together with various parts. Don’t know for sure but it may have been a partial body only without the running boards, splash aprons, fenders and rear deck. The rest may have been added later. A lot of T’s were built up from parts. If you have a frame, engine and running gear find a partial body and go from there. Or it could be your car was made into a pickup/runabout from the original. It’s a fun car to have and there are a lot out there like yours or similar. Finding the correct windshield would be a positive thing.

[Couchsachraga]

The verbal history indicates it was a Snowmobile purchased directly from Virgil White's Snowmobile operation in Ossippee; as such never had any running boards or front fenders and has some unique features (very narrow - center of tire to center of tire is 38"), Ruxtall rear end, and the rather obvious extra axle!) I suspect it has had some replacement parts over the years, and am enjoying trying to figure out the different vintages, as well as trying to date the majority of the vehicle. So far it appears other than the windshield everything dates to mid-1923 through 1925, which aligns nicely with the 1924 engine date, but the point of my post is ask for help in figuring out what else is likely from that date range and what isn't, hence some the detailed images.

Here are a few images of the Snowmobile as a whole:)

[TRDxB2]

Thank you all for the responses! I'll get more images up this weekend when I'm back working on it. For the passenger side door (only door) interior or exterior? Here are some images I've already taken, but as they were not taken specifically for the purpose of dating the vehicle they are likely not good enough. Some may look a little odd (door and brake quadrant) as I had to lighten them up significantly to bring out the features.
----

Take a look at the MTFCA Encyclopedia on-line.
Two versions
BY Year https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/
https://www.mtfca.com/model_t_encyclopedia/1924/

By changes within year or by component changes by year https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/index.htm
https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc24.htm
--
https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wshld
1915-1916
Upright windshield which folded to the rear at the center. Hinges had equal-length arms. Mounting bracket was riveted to the windshield frame. Sidelights mounted on this bracket.
1917-1929
Similar to 1916 but about April 1917 the hinges had unequal arms so that when folded the upper half was above the lower. The mounting bracket was now separate and screwed to the windshield frame. (After about Feb. 1917.) With the introduction of electrical equipment in mid-1919 the windshield mounting brackets were redesigned to eliminate the side lamp brackets on those supplied by the factory with starters. The older style (with the brackets for the oil lamps) continued on the non-starter cars.
1920-1922
Similar to the 1917-20 style except that the brackets no longer had the integral oil lamp supports. The oil lamps, used only on non-starter cars, now had a separate forged mounting bracket, held by the same bolts that secured the windshield frame to the body.
1923-1925
Sloping windshield with a fixed lower section and an upper section which pivoted forward or backward. Sidelight brackets now a separate item and were used only on non-electric cars. Posts now bolted to the body, eliminating the forging used earlier. Top now fastened to the top of the windshield posts.

[Steve Jelf]

For the passenger side door (only door) interior or exterior?

Exterior, from a little toward the front. 45º would be OK.

Any correct windshield in good condition, with or without glass, should be fine. Any competent local glass shop can fill an empty frame.

[Couchsachraga]

Steve (and everyone else) - thank you all for taking the time to respond:). I have read through the "Ford Bible" and am going back through the encyclopedia that was linked to - it is fun and educational to learn what was changed over the years. Sometimes it is easier if someone who "knows" and has internalized all the information glances at something though:). In that vein, I'm hoping this image of the passenger side is helpful. If not I'll get a better one this weekend when I put the bands back in (they are soaking now:) ).

[John kuehn]

If the car was once a snowmobile T the windshield may be unique for the T snowmobile. Others would know for sure.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Minor detail for what it is worth. Steve Jelf (one of our finest!) had asked for a picture showing the brake handle quadrant (on the frame), which you provided. However it (unless I missed it?) hasn't yet been commented upon.
The four rivet quadrant like you show was used on model Ts from 1909 through 1924. For 1925, and continuing until the end of production in 1927, they used a two rivet (only one rivet each end) quadrant. So that makes your frame likely a 1924 if it is original to the high cowl body.

[Couchsachraga]

Thank you - I greatly appreciate the feedback from folks who have so much more knowledge and are revered in the community.

I’m going to contact the few Snowmobile folks I know and confirm there wasn’t a reason a vertical windshield would have been used - if anyone happens to have a ‘24 Snowmobile and reads this please let me know what windscreen you have, and if you know it to be original!

[John kuehn]

Adam
You can do a general internet search “Model T Ford snowmobile” and you will see a lot of them come up. Hope this helps!

[Couchsachraga]

I think I’ve read every “Snowmobile” type post here and on other sites. As someone who has a passion for old trucks and snow going tracked vehicles I found them intriguing before I purchased one… and since I acquired this one last fall I’ve been trying to learn all I can about them, as well as Model T’s in general. We’re fortunate to have a great group of folks and tremendous amount of information on this forum.

[speedytinc]

The door hinge protrusions appear to be equal length short. 1925 only?

[Couchsachraga]

Upper protrudes more I’m somewhat certain. I did take a picture yesterday but too much backlighting.

[John kuehn]

Here’s a photo of a 1925 touring and roadster door hinge. As you can see it’s straight. The 24 hinges and back are angled. The 25 hinges are straight. You can open your door up to see if it’s straight like the one pictured or angled as the earlier ones are. If your car is a 24 the hinge won’t be straight.