Restoring 1923 Coupe

[milkman]

I'm helping a friend restore a 1923 Coupe that was heavily damaged in a fire. We are at the point of doing the interior and top but have a question regarding the seatback. We do not have any surviving pieces to tell us how the seatback frame attached to the package shelf? Was there a special bracket? If someone could provide pictures they would be most helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Joe Bell]

I have full size prints from Ron Buckley had made years ago.

[milkman]

Would you be able to scan and email a copy of the bracket or what's involved in making the attachment? Thanks.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I would advise making certain that you are clear about "which" 1923 style coupe you are dealing with! A lot of people still seem to be willing to go to fistfights about the coupes of 1923.
There is the real 1923 model, which is the carryover from 1919 with doors hinged at the rear. (Suicide doors!) And there are the early production 1924 style coupes with doors hinged at the front. Production for those began about June or July of 1923, and MANY owners insist in calling them 1923s. It wouldn't be so bad if only owners of "early" production 1924 style coupes built before maybe September of 1923 insisted on calling their car a 1923. But seriously, I have seen dozens of truly 1924 and 1925 built coupes being called "1923" because someone that didn't know what they were talking about told them so.

The two styles, although looking similar from fifty feet away, are built nothing alike.

Former owner of an "April" 1924 coupe.

[Dan Hatch]

Wayne is correct. 1923 is a hard year to get correct. Due to to the changes. Just like 1915, many things changed that year too.
Pays to read all you can and look at as many cars as possible.

[John kuehn]

Easy way to tell if it’s a 24 if it has the cowl vent. The earlier T Coupes don’t have the cowl vent.

[John kuehn]

Here are some pics of my 24 Coupe that can help in telling the differences in the late 23, 24 and 25. As Wayne stated the late 23’s are the 24’s that were introduced in late 23.
The 24-25 Coupe doors are hinged at the front and they have the cowl vent. The earlier Coupes didn’t.

Shown is the clip and where it’s attached to install the backrest. When installing the backrest you raise up the backrest and clip it to the catch that is screwed on the package tray. The backrest wood frame has 3 wood ( clips ) that slide into the bottom of the seat frame. I don’t know if the earlier Coupe has the same back rest clip or not. Others might know. The Ford body parts books don’t list any metal backrest clips that I’ve found. All it says is backrest assembly.

I’m pretty sure this is the way it came from the factory. When I restored the car several years ago the inside of the car hadn’t been changed other than the tacked on seat cover my Grandfather covered it with in the 1940’s.

[milkman]

John -
The coupe we're restoring is titled as a '23 but we have encountered several situations that tell us it is actually a "transition" car. It does have a cowl vent and the doors are hinged on the front pillar.
Thanks so much as the first pic you attached is exactly what I was looking for, however I am confused with the second pic. We have the small flat "clip" (I can post a pic tomorrow as the car is in a neighboring town) that drops in the small slot at the rear of the cut-out in the shelf. I assume the seat back frame rests against the leading (front) edge of the shelf, so it's impossible for the "clip" to attach directly to the seat back frame without some sort of spacer. The "clip" we have has 2 holes that originally had rivets in them.

Also, would you describe or provide a pic of the wood clips you indicated that are on the bottom of your seatback? All we have for a pattern of the entire seatback frame is ashes! Thanks again.
- Lee

[John kuehn]

Here is a pic of the seat back on my 24. There is no spacer needed to fit the seat back to the package tray. The seat back is set into the car and then raised up about an 1” or so and then goes over the top and over of the package tray and pushed down for a snug fit. That’s why you see the empty space on the package tray. The two metal pieces clip together at that point.
Here is a picture from Fordwood.com of the wood framework for the 23-25 Coupes. Item #453 is the back rest assembly and item #445 are the end pieces on either side of the gas tank.

Looking at my seat back and the pic from Fordwood you can see the wood clips on the bottom of the seat back. They slide down between the seat frame and the gas tank end pieces. Check out the wood structure from Fordwood and you can tell how the pieces fit.

You can buy the individual wood pieces but they are slow and you should call them to be sure to get an order. Go to the main page for the info to find the wood structure individual pieces you might need.
Hope this can help!

[milkman]

We used a kit from Foodbarn for the body but did not order the seat back frame, rather we made one from oak that we had available. However we may need to modify it a bit. Looking at the Fordbarn diagram, are the outer two vertical boards flush with the top edge of the top horizontal board or are they simply not as thick as the center vertical board? In other words, are the outer two 1" thick and the center one 2"? We used 1" pieces for the entire frame. Otherwise, things make sense to me now thanks in large part to the pics you provided.

[John kuehn]

Pretty sure they are all the same width. Take a look at the picture of the seat clip and you can get an idea of how thick the top of the center frame piece is. Just be sure you cut the bottoms at an angle like is shown in the picture from my car. I’m not sure what degree the angle is. The angle cut helps guide the seat back down into place. When the seat is pushed into place it is a tight snug fit. At least it is in my car.
Did you already have the seat back springs? I would think that the seat back wood needs to be the same size as the original for the springs to attach to and be able to get to fit in the car.
Another tip would be before you recover the seat back make sure it will fit in place. When it’s recovered it will be a little tighter.