Hub caps

[Chris Haynes]

My 1921 came to me without any hubcaps. During shopping on eBay I see differences in hub caps. Which design is correct for a 1921 with Non Demountable wheels?

[RajoRacer]

Tim - I believe "demountable" rims were optional but they all used the same hub cap.

[RajoRacer]

Quick edit there, Tim.

[TWrenn]

Yeh you're right. Had a brief brain fart on the options vs standard! Really dont know why demountable werent standard across the board then.

[DanTreace]

Nickel finish is what Ford provided on the wood hubs. Repo can be chrome or nickel, your choice.

[TWrenn]

And Dan beat me to my other post in between!!

[Original Smith]

I have originals on all of my cars, but studying the changes from 1913 on is an interesting topic. I don't know when they started putting the manufactures symbol on the bottom, but I guess it would be in the early 1920's. I've been extremely lucky in being able to find NOS hubcaps at Hershey over the years, but if your are satisfied with current reproductions, they seem to be very good quality, but don't have the symbol.

[Steve Jelf]

Here's one of those caps with the manufacturer's mark, in this case a W.

This cap with an Alemite fitting soldered in is marked R.

[DanTreace]

And along with letter marks of mfg. some are missing the "period " after U.S.A

[Allan]

Is there documentation/evidence that the letter on the hubcaps is a manufcturer's mark? Our Canadian hubcaps also have various letters on them, the significance of which I have never discovered.

Allan from down under.

[Chris Haynes]

I am not looking for cherry hub caps. My car is very used and abused. To match my car they should be rusty and probably a few dings as long as they are not split. I was trying to learn which were used in late 1921 production, brass or steel? Would I be correct in assuming that all four would have the same letter at the bottom?

[Allan]

Chris, I can't imagine assembly line workers selecting a set of hubcaps with matching letters! A rusty hubcap would be steel. Those I have found are generally more sound than brass equivalents. The octagon on the end is tougher, the cap less likely to split at the threads and they are often less dented. I have no idea when they were used. There were also nickel plated aluminium ones produced. My guess is both were tried and perhaps deemed to be not as good as the brass ones, and so were deleted during production.

Allan from down under.

[DanTreace]

Don’t know of listing for suppliers of hub caps to Ford, but maybe not all put marks on them. Some details from club encyclopedia:

Click on image to enlarge and read

[Wayne Sheldon]

I don't know. I can't recall ever reading anything definitive about when nickel plated brass and steel hubcaps were used. Records and empirical evidence seem to indicate that both were used on and off for about ten years. I "think" nickel plated brass hubcaps were used almost exclusively in 1917.I have heard and read that nickel plated steel came about soon after 1917. I have also heard and read that the manufacturing was enough more difficult that they went back to brass again (but I do not know how accurate that is, or approximate dates). Forming the hubcaps in steel was very tough on the dies, and some outside suppliers lacked heavy enough presses to accomplish the task. I suspect (my opinion) that Ford was using both throughout most of those ten years.
I have read of the nickel plated aluminum before also, but never seen one. I am not totally convinced they did exist. My understanding is that they were tried for only a very short time and that issues with plating as well as breakage issues made them a very short experiment.
Another short time experiment, and one that I have seen several of over the years. For maybe less than six months, during the 1925 model year, Ford did use nickel plated zinc hubcaps. I have seen several of those over the years, mostly mangled beyond any usability. I have one fairly nice one, on a display shelf.
The zinc hubcaps are so very soft, they are easily damaged (hence the several mangled ones I have seen!). Even if a person were to find one in nice condition? I would not recommend using them. They represent an anomaly in Ford's manufacturing. A nearly forgotten experiment that didn't work out well. They should be displayed on shelves.
I am sure that they were much cheaper to manufacture. I suspect that they were so delicate that they in turn slowed down the assembly process. Just handling them in large numbers, cases full of them being stacked and moved about probably destroyed hundreds of them before they were put onto a car! Workers had to take a couple more seconds to be careful to avoid cross threading and splitting the caps. They would have to be very careful tightening the things to not split the threaded area or mangle the wrench area.
I have wondered if some people have had the zinc hubcaps and thought they were aluminum?

[Allan]

Wayne, you may well be correct about the zinc nickel plated hubcaps. I never thought they may be zinc rather than aluminium. I'll have to check the really nice one I have in my stocks of originals.

Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

Here's some of what Bruce says about hubcaps. The encyclopedia has photos and drawings.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Allan, I have heard of aluminum hubcaps from a couple other sources. I just have never heard or read anything yet that I consider to be definitive. I look forward to reading what you find about yours. I know the zinc one I have is extremely lightweight.

Written records and photographic records I find often disagree with each other. That makes it difficult to steadfastly believe either one entirely. After studying literally thousands of era photographs, I find it easier to believe that a lot of the written records either were advance notice of things that did not happen, or later notes written from a faulty memory by someone that did not realize that a hundred years later we might actually care about such a detail.
A year or two ago, a photograph was shared on this forum, and comments made by Larry Smith (one of our most dedicated "keep it like original" people) pointing out that the 1917 touring car's hubcaps had black backgrounds! I know I have seen dozens of 1917 era photographs showing new cars with the black background on the hubcaps. That makes it very difficult to believe that Ford stopped painting the backgrounds black in 1915.

As for brass plated steel hubcaps? I do not know if they ever existed or not. I do know that I have never seen one. I do know that I have been trying for years to collect enough brass hubcaps for a handful of brass era model Ts (I currently have three such project cars!). I have looked at hundreds of hubcaps at swap meets over the past thirty years. I find a few usable brass era hubcaps (very much in demand and hard to find!). I find enough nickel plated brass hubcaps, even on improved era cars and axles. And I find a lot of nickel plated steel hubcaps. I have never found a steel hubcap that had no trace of the nickel plating left. And I have never found an original era steel hubcap that had any trace of brass plating.
That is what I have seen and what I know.

Years ago, I, like so many others, had several opportunities to discuss these things with Bruce McCalley. He told me a few times, and I heard him tell other people several times, that the things he put in the encyclopedia and other books was the best to his knowledge at that time. I heard him say that we would have to continue to research and improve upon that knowledge for years to come. He said he knew that many things in his books would likely be disproven in the future.
Remember, most of what was "known" in the earlier days of this hobby was based upon faulty memories. Real research into the records and studying of the photographs was just beginning. Bruce's books were a tremendous leap forward! They are still to this day one of the best resources available to most hobbyists.

Me personally, I tend to favor a preponderance of original era photographic evidence. If I see fifty different original era photographs showing different 1917 model T Fords with even fold windshield hinges, I tend to believe that Ford did in fact build them that way! When I have seen dozens of 1917 model T Fords in original era photographs with black painted backgrounds on the hubcaps? I believe Ford continued that into the early black era model Ts no matter how many people can quote a later-written source saying they stopped that in 1915 or'16. I also remember a lot of that faulty memory history believing that the 1915/'16 T did not have black backgrounds. I remember being told that by many people. Again, there are simply too many original era photographs showing '15s and '16s with black painted backgrounds.

I have no doubt that in the rush to production, and given the logistics involved in the era, Ford had considerable crossover time when both earlier and later pieces would be leaving the factories at the same time. Logic tells me that. Just when the black backgrounds ended? How long the crossover time really was? I don't know. It is usually the even fold windshield cars that have the black background hubcaps. I would guess based upon that that both features were probably limited to early 1917 cars, maybe about half the model year or less. A few of the black background hubcaps may have continued to show up even as late as early 1918 model year cars. I seem to recall a past discussion of a very original very early '18 that had them.

Just silly me.

[Chris Haynes]

Great information. Thanks to all.

[Darin Hull]

Never noticed the W mark or no period after the A before reading this post on hubcaps. It’s amazing how the simplest part on a T can be a thing of beauty... almost look like art.

Darin