Hayes Wire Wheels?

[Hudson29]

My 1914 Touring came with a set of Hayes wire wheels with demountable rims. Two of the Hubcaps say Hayes on them and I mounted these on the front axle. Two of the caps were plain & I mounted these on the rear axle. Why plain & Hayes logo hubcaps?

I have seen these wheels before on other cars but not with the demountable rims. The rims look to be standard 30 x 3 1/2 types. Any idea when these wheels were made?

I would like to remove the wheels to service the bearings & seals. On standard Ford wheels its pretty easy to get at the split pin & nut or fit the hub puller. All of this looks to be hidden inside the hub of the wheel on these Hayes wheels. Are there any special tools needed? Do you just have to try to winkle the pins out with needle nosed pliers?

[Dan Hatch]

Special puller for rear. Think the front wheels are just like Ford hubs. Dan

[Kevin Pharis]

The Hayes demountable wire wheels are fairly common. These came in demountable 30x3-1/2” and demountable 21” rim. The wheel centers directly replace the Ford hubs... and so accept the standard bearings up front, and require a puller for the rear. I imagine the rear hub puller would screw into the hub cap thread.

I seem to remember someone saying that the 30x3-1/2” version was factory option on Canadian cars at some point...?

[Allan]

Paul, I just had another look at your photos and noticed that your rear wheels are in fact modified front wheels. They seem to be more plentiful, and it has allowed the fitting of the oversized brake drums. It should make no difference to the removal advice I posted.

Allan from down under.

[Kevin Pharis]

I just had another look at your photos and noticed that your rear wheels are in fact modified front wheels.

Yur absolutely right Allan! Normally the rear wheel centers would have an integrated brake drum. The inner spokes even lace into the drum section making it impossible to run auxiliary brakes. I seem to remember 6 rivets where the drum and hub connect...?

[Allan]

Paul, my initial post did not post.

The rear wheels need a puller, and it does indeed thread into the hub. Then a central bolt is wound in to make the "pull". We made mine. The hubcap thread was turned onto a thick steel disc and a large nut was welded to it after the centre was drilled out. A bolt winds in through the nut to do the "pull".

I bend both legs of a split pin into a crescent shape and feed it into the holes that way, spreading the legs after that. The standard Ford flat, four holed tool will not work with Hayes wire wheels. The nut and bearing are buried in the hub. A socket will remove the nut, and whatever you can bring to bear on the bearing flats will get that out.

There is a genuine Hayes tool for the purpose. It is a T shaped casting approx 7" tall. The base of the leg has a socket to fit the rear axle nut. It is driven by a rod inserted through the hollow cross on top of the T. One end of the cross is a socket to fit the front spindle nut. The other end is a round socket with two flats to fit the bearing.

If you are dead lucky, you might find a Walden Worcester workshop speedbrace. It has a large, forged socket on each end. One end fits the Ford,[and Hayes] hubcap and the inner on the same end fits the axle nuts. The other end socket fits the bearing on its outer register and the other axle nut on the inner one. Being sockets they both fit into the Hayes hubs.

Hope this helps, Allan from down under.

Kevin you are spot on. Six rivets do hold the hub onto the brake drum, and the inner spokes are laced into that unique steel drum. I substitute the rivets with socket head set screws which hold a heavy sleeve inside the brake drum to take a modern wheel bearing for my floating rear axles. By shaping the screw heads and then filling the sockets, you have to be an officianado to notice the difference.

[Hudson29]

Ah, I think that explains why these hubs need attention, previous owners did not have the tool & decided to skip servicing them. I pulled the handbrake on the last drive and heard some friction going on somewhere in the back end of the car but no noticeable slowing of forward progress.

When I say that the hubs need attention I should probably say that they leak a bit of grease. The wheels still roll fine with no noise.

I am not a fabricator. I had in mind doing my own hub & bearing cleaning, greasing the bearings and replacing the seals, I can swing a wrench well enough to attempt that but making a special tool is another matter. I know a fellow Model T owner that has a set of these wheels on his T. I'll see if he might loan it for a bit or have some other ideas.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Not mine, but this is what the puller looks like.

1ADA60BC-70DA-4C22-81AA-AFED96F6A77F.jpeg (38.66 KiB) Viewed 2125 times

[Hudson29]

Thanks for that, I can see how it works now. The base part threads into the wheel hub. Finding one of those might be tough!

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Mike Bender made this one back in 2007 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29 ... 1176499853

[Dropacent]

I ran a nice set for awhile. An axle knocker worked well on the rears ( make sure it’s seated, and just Jack up the opposite wheel). And I always curved my cotter keys to get them in. It wasn’t too bad.