Clincher Rims and Rubber Valve Stems

[bdtutton]

I purchased a new set of clincher tires and tubes from Snyder's. When I started to mount the tubes/tires I realized the rubber stem of the tube will not fit through the hole in the rim because the rubber stem of the tube is tapered and the base is too big. I called Snyder's and they said the rims were made for the metal stems, but if I was going to drive the car a lot I should stick with the rubber stems and just drill the holes out to make the rubber stems work. I found a tapered drill with the same profile as the rubber stems and as I started to drill it out I thought.....I should ask if anyone else has tried this...
....
Am I doing the right thing?

[Allan]

You really can't do any lasting damage.The choice of replacement tubes dictates what is needed. Rubber stems dictate a larger hole. Replacement original stems fitted to those tubes, have a bridging washer, so no problems there either. The Blockley best quality tubes have fully threaded brass stems, but these are a size bigger than originals, so again there is no problem with an enlarged hole.

I can't see any need to worry.
Allan from down under.

[bobt]

On my 1915 touring with non demountable wooden wheels, I had to enlarge the rim AND wooden fellows to allow the long stemmed tubes to seat properly. At the Luray swap meet last fall, I bought four Schrader brass screw on valve covers for $1.00 each and screwed them on the rubber stems. They look fantastic and I am very happy with the results. bobt

[Retro54]

I purchased a new set of clincher tires and tubes from Snyder's. When I started to mount the tubes/tires I realized the rubber stem of the tube will not fit through the hole in the rim because the rubber stem of the tube is tapered and the base is too big. I called Snyder's and they said the rims were made for the metal stems, but if I was going to drive the car a lot I should stick with the rubber stems and just drill the holes out to make the rubber stems work. I found a tapered drill with the same profile as the rubber stems and as I started to drill it out I thought.....I should ask if anyone else has tried this...
....
Am I doing the right thing?

Its only the right thing if you tried it and know what you are doing. Also, may only be the right thing for a vendor that only has these types of tubes to sell.. The rubber valve stem tube is the only kind available for purchase right now in the US due to the metal valve stem ones being out of stock at all the major suppliers. Was told in February the metal ones may be in end of May, June. Who knows..

Metal valve stem tubes are the correct tubes to use as they actually have nuts that affix the valve stem to the rims and keep the tube in place. Rubber stems will eventually move around and the stem will get cut. That being said, many people use rubber stem tubes. Go figure.

Another solution is to search for and purchase old Schrader valve stems. These seldom go bad and actually have a bigger button on the tube end than that on the modern metal stem tubes. Then take those rubber stem tubes you got, and cut the stems off. Replace the rubber stems with the metal stems and there you have a good metal stem tube.

A few websites devoted to the T lead you through this process. You can find them if your search. There are also several forum posts... Here is in of them.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/640373.html

If you gotta cut a hole larger in the original Ford fellows... to install a poorly made replacement part... does that feel right? Doesn't make sense to me. T people are notoriously cheap... metal stem tubes cost more. In my opinion the rubber on your car is not the place to go cheap. But hey, that's just me.

[Allan]

Do the presently unavailable metal stemmed tubes have threads and nuts to clamp them in the tubes, or are they plain stems which are vulcanised directly into the tube? If they are vulcanised like the one I recently found with a missing stem, they may not be good candidates for bolt-in original replacements, as part of the hole around the stem had pulled out with the missing stem.

Allan from down under.

[Retro54]

Do the presently unavailable metal stemmed tubes have threads and nuts to clamp them in the tubes, or are they plain stems which are vulcanised directly into the tube? If they are vulcanised like the one I recently found with a missing stem, they may not be good candidates for bolt-in original replacements, as part of the hole around the stem had pulled out with the missing stem.

Allan from down under.

When available, the ones in the US are the correct threaded stems. One thing to note though, with the newer stems, the button @ the inside of the tube is smaller than the original schrader valves. Obviously they work when vulanized onto a new tube, but may not be as suitable for using as salvaged and replacement value stems.

Andy

[Mark Gregush]

This issue is not something new, been this way for a while with some rubber stems. I have been reducing the diameter of the stem itself around the base to fit thru the hole. Don't know of any tubes that I have done this too that have gone flat after doing this.

[Original Smith]

It is up to Coker, Lucas and others to work with the companies making the tubes to see that they are done correctly. But, they won't do it. About ten years ago I bought a set of tubes that were still being made in the USA, and they fit fine, HOWEVER, those tubes would not fit through the wood felloe in a non demountable wheel. Going way back, I used to buy tubes from Wards, and Firestone and Goodyear, and they all worked. In my opinion, the hobby tire companies only care about making a profit. They don't care about making products that work.
Many years ago, I started collecting Schrader, Bridgeport and Dill valve stems when you could still buy them at swap meets for $1. I had to teach myself how to install these valve stems in a rubber stem tube, which I did. I've had success with my two 13's, but haven't gotten around to installing them in my 1925 yet, which still has American made rubber stem tubes.

[Steve Jelf]

When available, the ones in the US are the correct threaded stems.

They're correct in being threaded, but not in size. Metal stems were made in two widths, about 3/8" and about 1/2". Ford used the smaller size. Today's metal stem tubes use the larger size.

I buy rubber stem tubes to save money, cut off the stems, and install T era metal stems. I use the larger size because I have covers that fit them. I've never had to drill out a hole for a metal stem.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG110.html

[Retro54]

When available, the ones in the US are the correct threaded stems.

They're correct in being threaded, but not in size. Metal stems were made in two widths, about 3/8" and about 1/2". Ford used the smaller size. Today's metal stem tubes use the larger size.

I buy rubber stem tubes to save money, cut off the stems, and install T era metal stems. I use the larger size because I have covers that fit them. I've never had to drill out a hole for a metal stem.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG110.html

Thank you for the clarification Steve. Still learning here.

[Mark Gregush]

All really good information but the guy needs help with his rubber stems not metal.

[bdtutton]

To expand on my original post....I like the way the metal stems look and I appreciate all the tips on how to attach metal stems, but on my Model A and on my Model T I was told that if I want to show I could use metal stems, but if I want to go (Drive it a lot) use rubber valve stems. My car may look like a show car when I am done, but I plan to put a lot of miles on it so I am planning to use rubber valve stems. (New Firestone tires and flaps too!) I am thinking about a compromise solution where I only enlarge the hole a little and shave the outside of the valve stem a little. I have a taper drill and as a test I decided to drill one of the holes out just a little to see if I could make a rubber stem work. I was surprised to find there is a metal sleeve that goes from the rim through the wood around the valve stem. I was wondering how thick the metal sleeve is surrounding the valve stem hole??

[Ruxstel24]

I bought a couple Hartford tubes with rubber stems and had no issue with my 30X3.5” Hayes rims. Stem slid right in, I run 55psi in the rear and 50psi in the front and have chirped the back tires stopping before with no problem.
The Hartford tube seems a little thicker than some other brands....

[Oldav8tor]

I had to ream the holes in my rims slightly to accommodate the rubber stems. No problem with the felloes. Another word of caution, grind a little relief in the tire bead where the valve stem goes thru. I didn't and had two of my tires go flat because the bead cut the stem.

I should have taken a clue from the 40 year old tire I took off (pictured)

[Steve Jelf]

... I was told that if I want to show I could use metal stems, but if I want to go (Drive it a lot) use rubber valve stems.

Maybe two trips from southern Kansas to Detroit and back is not a lot.
I did have a flat, but it had nothing to do with the valve stem.

[Allan]

The notch in the bead is often resorted to by those fitting their tyres one side at a time. If the width of the rim and the combined width of the two beads is measured, there will be plenty of room for the beads and the valve stem when assembled onto the rim. Even our old time Olympic tyres with their wide beads would fit nicely, if both sides of the rim are fitted at the same time.

The problem comes when the one side already fitted is pulled over the valve stem hole as the fitter tries to get the valve stem down the hole, before he tries to lever on the second side.

I will add I have no experience fitting those skinny 3" front tyres.

Allan from down under.

[Luxford]

Brian,
I think who ever told you to use rubber stem tubes may have been not well informed,

If you read some of the many posts on the forum about tires and tubes you will quickly see that rubber stems on tubes are not the best option.
All the lousy tubes we have been subject to over the past 20 years are not up to scratch. Take the rubber stems, obvious they were for tire pressures far lower than the 55 -60 psi we require in clincher rimed tires , maybe Ok in a lower pressure tire like the Model A's and late T;s have but the rubber stems have only the smallest amount of rubber vulcanized to the metal stem. They are so inferior you can guarantee your tires will go flat quickly, may be tomorrow may be later but they the will fail.

Metal stems, different story worked originally , still work now, as was noted in the Brockley post they are used on tubes used in vintage cars driving over 120 MPH at times.

In 56 years I have never had a metal stem valve stem fail, if I have to use a rubber valve stem then I clamp the stem around the stem to prevent it leaking. Here is a photo of one I had fail on a Model T tour in Pincher Creek in 2011. Note the only contact between the rubber and the metal stem is right at the end allowing the air to push up around the stem till the tiny contact area lets go, you can see the talcum powder in the tube has also gone up between the rubber and the metal stem. Get good metal stems and loose the rubber ones and you will not be sorry.

[bdtutton]

OK...you all convinced me that I should try using the original brass valve stems in my non-demountable wood wheels. They were a little hard to find, but there are a few out there to be found if you look. The new tubes and hardware have been ordered and should be here next week.

[Mark Gregush]

Ok now that you are going that route, here is how to do it;
http://sheepisland.com/cars/tech/metal_stems/

[Allan]

I try to leave a raised ring of the old rubber stem around the valve stem hole, so that there is a little more to clamp to. Old time tubes often had fabric reinforcement in the rubber at the valve stem hole. I do stay away from any lubricant/sealer when fitting the stem. These allow the rubber to squeeze out under the bridge washer if too much pressure is applied when the nut is tightened. You need to be tight enough to stop leaks, and no more. It pays to air up the tube before fitting to check your work.

Allan from down under.

[Original Smith]

Who sells Hartford tubes? I understand they are the best quality available.

[TWrenn]

Larry ..I got mine from Langs

[Ruxstel24]

Who sells Hartford tubes? I understand they are the best quality available.

I got mine from Coker

[Allan]

Hartford may have been the best tubes made available by the US suppliers, but that is only true if you ignore Michelin and now Blockley. Finally, we have available tubes which hold air, like they used to before junk [display only] items became the norm.

Allan from down under.

[SurveyKing]

I contacted Blockley to see about their brass stem tubes for 30 x 3 1/2, it seems they are 11.5 mm or 29/64 of an inch in diameter, does anyone have the size of the Hartford metal stem? I am wondering if the Schrader valve stem cover base will fit the Blockleys?

[Steve Jelf]

As near as I can tell the 29/64 (11.5 mm) is about half a millimeter smaller than the wide Shrader stems (.453" vs.477"). With that small a difference I suspect your Shrader hardware might fit the Blockley stem if the thread pitch is the same. I'm thinking I will probably keep the Hartford tubes I'm using with Shrader stems when I get Blockley tyres. I know Allan thinks they're trash, and the Bockley tubes are probably better, but so far the Hartfords have been OK for me.

[SurveyKing]

Steve, I know you realize the nut that the Schrader valve stem cover screws on to at its base must screw down the metal stem to the felloe, so if the Blockley metal stem is too wide, I do not think it will work. I am hesitant to try the Blockley tubes for that reason. Am I wrong in being skeptical here?

[Allan]

I believe the valve stem in the Blockley tubes is the standard size and thread a the more usual Schraeder stems used on most cars, rather than the smaller size used on T's. This would mean that there are plenty of original dust caps and nuts available to suit. I am not sure if this means fitting these tubes to original rims/wheels will require bigger holes in every rim/wheel combination.

Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

I am not sure if this means fitting these tubes to original rims/wheels will require bigger holes in every rim/wheel combination.

No. At least not for me. I use the larger size Shrader stems in both 1915 nondemountable wheels and later demountables. If the Blockley stems are the same size they should fit.

[Mark Gregush]

Great info on the larger diameter valve stems. A friend has some rebuilt wheels for his 1912. The regular stems would need sleeves to fit in the holes. I will have to look into other stems for him, along with related hardware.

[Steve Jelf]

The regular stems would need sleeves to fit in the holes.

Probably not. They didn't need sleeves originally, and the holes haven't changed. I think the bridge washer and the nut will keep them from moving around. The only problem I see with the correct Shrader 777 stems is that they're not as easy to come by as the larger sizes. But more than 60,000,000 of them were made, so they're around.