Air Cleaner

[hbarbee]

Is an air filter required for a 1927 with a Holley NH when used only for show, parades, etc.? If so, what model would fit because the intake/choke end does not seem to be designed to mount anything on and there is very little room from there to the transmission housing.

[TXGOAT2]

Model Ts did not originally have any kind of air filter. Aftermarket filters are available, and it's a good idea to use one. If you don't drive in dusty areas or in rain, there's no urgent need for one. For parade use, I wouldn't worry about having one, unless you're driving around a dirt arena behind a 20 mule hitch.

[tiredfarmer]

I asked an old mechanic how often did you have to overhaul Model T and A engines since they didn't have air cleaners. He told me pretty darn often, so that's why I have air cleaners on both my T and A.

[Oldav8tor]

The filters sold by Langs have a spring inside the foam element that presses against the transmission and holds it in place. They can be washed and re-oiled for reuse.

Unless you have a real problem with carburetor icing I would recommend using one. Just because Henry didn't do it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea

[Steve Jelf]

I drive on country roads a lot, so I use a filter on both the NH and the G.
Like this: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG116.html.

[hbarbee]

Steve,

Thanks for the details which I have documented in the attached. Your install is simple and mounts vertical and above the carburetor, which is what I prefer based on the warnings I have read concerning the possibility of flooding and soaking the filter. I will implement this as soon as I get a 'round tuit'.

Hurst

[TXGOAT2]

I would add that the simple foam type filter can be removed in a moment in case of flooding. If you mount a filter above the carburetor inlet, like on a 9N Ford tractor, you will need a way to drain the "elbow" in the event of flooding resulting from a stuck needle or over-choking. Some updraft carburetor installations used a drain device made of an Oilite type material. The device, a small plug-like piece in the bottom of the air horn on the filter side of the choke plate, would automatically allow any liquid gasoline that accumulated to drip out, but prevented unfiltered air getting in.

[TWrenn]

Here ya go Hurst! Now get TUIT!!

[dmdeaton]

So the T carbs are ok to use with a cleaner? The Zenith Model A carbs dont like a restriction unless mods done to balance the airflow?

[TXGOAT2]

Ideally, you'd have the bowl vented to the air horn on the atmosphere side of the choke plate. Many old engines had air filters and lacked this feature. It is important to keep any air filter clean and free of restriction, so far as is practical. It is especially important with a set up that lacks a compensating bowl vent, since any restriction in the air filter assembly will choke the carburetor, more or less. A compensated set up will lose some power due to any air filter restriction, but the air/fuel mixture ratio will not be much affected unless the restriction is very severe.

[Craig Leach]

O K Danny,
I run a marvel schebler on my speedster, living in the desert I'm fond of air filters but have noticed a issue with them at high altitude and climing hills. Most of the time i just remove the air filter if the issue pressents. Can you educate my on this balance thing ?
Thanks. Craig.

[dmdeaton]

Craig
I forget all I know since it’s been a couple years. I will go over to the vintage Ford forum. Has been some good discussions there on this subject.
Sounds like txgoat has some good knowledge. I thought it was shortening the bowl vent, but I forget. My short term sucks.

[dmdeaton]

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/ ... air-filter

[dmdeaton]

As quoted
Carb balancing

An easy way to air balance a carburetor without modifying it's original structure is to get a small piece of metal tube to fit tightly into the float bowl vent. I once used a brass tube about 3/4 to an 1" long. Slide a piece of tubing onto it and place the other end between the air filter and the choke plate, preferably fitting it into the air cleaner housing so you don't need to modify the carb.
If you use a large enough air filter element balancing may not be necessary.

[dmdeaton]

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/ ... #post19607

Mostly pertains to zenith on A’s but good stuff

[J1MGOLDEN]

Everyone appears to be ignoring the real reason of the air intake pipe and that is a very important little know purpose.

The venturi effect in the carb can develop ice in 50 degree damp temperatures.

The ice thins out the gas stream and when it gets thin enough, you get a backfire and a stopped engine.

[TXGOAT2]

It's the dreaded Frosty Carb!

[Scott_Conger]

More time spent in worry and angst to improve something that doesn't need it.

So for grins, I researched what is being discussed and the "Guru" of this stuff said the following: IT WOULD TAKE A LIFETIME TO WEAR OUT AN ENGINE
WITH THE DUST THAT'S ON OUR ROADS TODAY. https://rennerscorner.com/carburetor-services.html Ya think???

This statement follows his ads that give prices to dork up your Model A Zenith carb. For the love of Pete...in your case, it's a Model T...in the case of the Model A Zenith, at least the guy trying to take people's money states that is money foolishly spent. Now that's some cojones. I like the guy already.

[Steve Jelf]

IT WOULD TAKE A LIFETIME TO WEAR OUT AN ENGINE WITH THE DUST THAT'S ON OUR ROADS TODAY.

Oh yeah?

[dmdeaton]

City folk

[jiminbartow]

I bought this air filter for my 1926 coupe engine. It has a spring that is compressed and pressed onto to NH carb intake and held in place by pressing against the hogshead. I bought it from Snyder’s. I think Lang’s also carry them, but you must remove the pre-heater in order to use it. It works well here in Florida, but l don’t need a pre-heater as much as folks up north where it is colder and a pre-heater is necessary. Jim Patrick

[Craig Leach]

Hi Danny,
I had not thought of that. Most of the issues I have had with air filter issues that where a result of turbulance from high air flow, not something that happens in a model T. I will dig into my small fittings & tubing to see what I can do. Thanks.
Carig.

[TXGOAT2]

If you drive a T or A from my house to the "slab road" in dry weather with no filter, the inside of the carburetor intake will be covered in dust. Dust is a fact of life around here in dry weather, and dry is the default setting. Dust will fuse onto the spark plug ground electrodes and exhaust valves. It adds to carbon deposits and mixes with oil on cylinder walls and grinds away at the top end, and some gets into the crankcase and embeds in the babbit and cuts on the crankshaft, timing gears, cam, etc. It will wear out an engine far sooner than would be the case with clean air. If you ride a motorcycle around here you will find that there is a lot of flying grit and dust in the air when other vehicles pass by, even on many paved roads. Dirt and mud get tracked onto pavement from the many dirt side roads and cutoffs, and traffic soon pounds the mud to dust and sends it flying. I live over a quarter mile from the county road, which has little traffic. A clean vehicle parked here will aquire a coat of dust in dry weather without even being driven. People who live right on the county road get a mini-dust storm every time a car or truck goes by. I can't keep the dust off my vehicles, but I can and will do what I can to keep it out of engines.

[TXGOAT2]

"So the use of an air cleaner of any type will negatively
affect the air to fuel ratios AS THE FILTER GET(S) DIRTY." .......................Yep.

[hbarbee]

There has been good information posted on this thread. It seems the clear majority would prefer to have an air cleaner installed. That has always seemed intuitive to me but I wanted to confirm it. The important factor seems to be that the filter surface area must be as large as possible and kept clean to minimize restriction. In addition, it must be mounted in such a manner that it will not be absorbing any fuel should flooding occur.

When I bought my 27 Roadster Pickup it had been fully restored and the engine had a Vaporizer with no filter. It has been driven very little since restoration. I just installed a conversion kit to move to a Holley NH. Therefore I figured this would be a good time to put a filter on and I do like the design referenced in this thread by Steve Jelf.

[Scott_Conger]

I get about 5" of rain per year...and it's miles to a paved road; no one has to "school" me on dusty roads. If you're lead dog, or the only dog, and are running engine pans like the car was designed with, you're going to get precious little material into the carb that will cause any harm. If you constantly drive with 20 other people on nothing but gravel/dirt roads and are at the back of the pack because you are running a Grose valve, well, you're going to need a respirator as well as an air filter.

Now, if you're driving 8,000+ miles per year and spend them on gravel or dirt roads, you might have a problem that requires an air filter. If you're driving 1000 miles per year on paved roads, you're simply looking for a reason to start a new thread about sooted up plugs. I've been on enough tours and seen enough people who think they drive the wheels off their car and yet cannot make a 100 mile trip without moaning about "what a tough day it's been" that I am of the opinion that 8000+ mile drivers are far and few between. I have no beef with anyone though, it's your car and if you want to play games with "carburetor balancing", air filters, fuel filters, whatever is your fancy today, that's up to you...have fun! From an operational and design standpoint, the intake system is not designed for the restriction an air filter creates. Some folks get away with them and some do not...it's not an originality thing or gadget thing, it's simply a design fact. No new ground is being broken here; it's not like it's the first time the topic has come up nor will it be the last.

Myself, I will keep making carb parts that solve real problems for people who are tired of real problems and just want to have a reliable car, so what do I know?

[jiminbartow]

Here are the two types of Model T air filters available from Snyder’s. The pleated air filter has a lot more surface area and will filter a lot more air than the foam filter, the pleated air filter can be dismantled and cleaned by blowing out from the inside as often as needed. Jim Patrick

[Oldav8tor]

I recently installed a filter like the bottom one in the previous post. I just came back from a three day, 327 mile tour in NE Wisconsin and can report the following: 1.) Temperatures ranged between 45 and 65 degrees - prime temperatures and humidity for carburetor icing... no apparent Carb ice detected. 2.) Mileage increased to 18 mpg from 15 mpg. The car ran well, lots of power. So far so good. I carry the carb stove under the back seat but for now I'm sticking with the filter.