Brake pedal adjustment. Success!

[jiminbartow]

In most old photos of the three pedals (clutch, reverse and brake) they are even with eachother when in the up position. My brake pedal has never been even with the clutch and reverse pedals. In fact, it is about 2” lower. I assume this was from a heavy footed past driver with worn bands who had a difficult time stopping the T, so he stomped the pedal with all his might to stop it, thus, bending the pedal shaft forward. I would assume this is a common problem that many of you may have encountered, due to the Model T’s notoriety for being difficult to stop. With the Guinn wooden bands, I have never had a problem stopping my T, but the brake pedal has always come uncomfortably close to bottoming out against the floor board and I would like to fix it so that the brake pedal is back to being even with the other pedals like it is supposed to be so there is no danger of bottoming out one day. I have the brake band adjusted as close as I can without the band being too tight.

To all who have experience this, how did you remedy the problem? I assume since the brake pedal shaft has been bent down from aggressive over application, the best way to fix it is to bend it back up to where it was originally, where the other pedals are. My question is, what is the best way to do this? I was thinking of renting a short hydraulic bottle jack and wedging it between the back of the pedal and the back of the engine block and applying pressure, but that might damage the firewall since the firewall is between the head and the back of the pedal. I was also thinking that, if I take out the seat bench and seat back, I can open the trunk lid and run a come-along from the brake pedal to a tree and pull the brake up until it is where it needs to be. What say you? Jim Patrick

[DanTreace]

In most old photos of the three pedals (clutch, reverse and brake) they are even with eachother when in the up position

Jim

The pedals were never intended to be even with each other. Any photo you saw like that was out of focus

[John kuehn]

Here’s another picture of the pedals and how they should look. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1465404413

This is an older post that has some good pics and information.

[jiminbartow]

Thank you Dan. I stand corrected. I went back and searched the images and all of them show the reverse pedal ahead of the clutch and brake pedals and the clutch and brake pedals even with eachother (see photo). That said, the past leadfoot driver I referred may have used the reverse to stop and bent that as well, so I may need to bend the reverse and brake pedals back into place. The clutch pedal is adjusted correctly but the brake pedal is still lower than the clutch and comes very close to bottoming out so, I still need ideas on how best to accomplish this. Thank you. Jim Patrick

[Norman Kling]

From your first set of pictures, it looks like the brake is a bit forward when it is back. This is caused by one of two things. 1. the cam is worn. 2. the spring is weak. I don't think the problem is the cam, because the typical wear on the cam would be in the forward direction and not allow the pedal to move enough to lock the brake.
The brake and clutch should be in approximate same location when all the way back, but the reverse should be farther back. This will make it easier to find the three pedals with your feet without looking down.
Norm

[jiminbartow]

Norm. Neither is the case. The spring is strong and the brake pedal is seated firmly in the cam and cannot move back any further, I am convinced that the brake shaft is bent forward and the only thing that can be done to move it back is to bend it backwards. All I need are ideas on how best to do this. Do you think that it could be best done by removing the brake pedal and using a Vice and force? Jim Patrick

[TXGOAT2]

I would consider leaving it as-is if it works well. If you want to bend the pedal, I would recommend taking it out to avoid the possibility of bending or breaking something you don't want to bend, and to be sure that it is actually bent, and that the problem is not some other part of the pedal/shaft assembley or related parts.

[DanTreace]

need are ideas on how best to do this

Use two wrenches, with long handles, a 10 or 12 inch pipe wrenches or long handle monkey wrench can work. Place one low, crosswise tighten. Place the other vertical under the foot pedal. Hold the lower tightly, so it won’t move, so pedal stem is held in rearward place. Then pull on upper wrench so it levers the foot section forward, bending the pedal shaft back .

Have done this times before, esp. to straighten a leaning pedal. Idea is to hold in place with one wrench and fulcrum the other to bend, takes a grunt and strong pull. Works on the hand lever too to move it for leg clearance. Strong Ford steel, cold bending preferred.

And if you can find this KRW pedal bending tool, that will work too

Image 2-25-22 at 8.47 PM.jpeg (74.95 KiB) Viewed 3344 times

Noted a typo in the KRW catalog page, they listed the numbers in the copy wrong, but you can see the pedal tool.

[Norman Kling]

I have bent them using the method suggested by Dan. I have only used one wrench to pull the pedal back toward the cab. I bent it cold and no problem. Dan has a good idea because it could be possible to bend it sideways if not supported as he says.
Good idea Dan.
Norm

[RajoRacer]

I have the Z-91 BUT mine is Ford script with a Z number also.

[Scott_Conger]

now you're just bragging

[jiminbartow]

Thank Dan and Tomaso. I have been studying that tool for an hour trying to figure out where it would be positioned and how it could provide the necessary rearward leverage to move the pedal head to the rear. With the thin portion of the pedal shaft pointing to the front and rear and the wide portion to the right and left, I just can’t figure out how to get the necessary rearward leverage the way the bar has a thin groove instead of a wide groove to fit on the thin portion of the shaft. Tomaso, would you be able to position your lever on your Model T brake pedal shaft and post a picture of it so I can get an idea of how to position it? I may have one made. Thank you. Jim Patrick

[jiminbartow]

I was going through my tools and came across my Ford spark plug wrench. Do you think this would work to hook onto the shaft behind the pedal with the handle pointing straight up? I could pull back on the handle to bend the shaft rearward. If I can’t get enough leverage fro he 10” handle, I can always slide a piece of steel pipe over the handle to lengthen the handle for more leverage. Jim Patrick

[Norman Kling]

I think it would ruin the wrench and also it is not on the right angle. You need something like a foot and a half long pipe wrench with the jaws on a right angle to the handle.
Norm

[jiminbartow]

I don’t want to ruin my wrench. It is very useful. I’ll use a long pipe wrench. Earlier, Dan spoke of using a wrench on the lower shaft, vertically, how is that done without twisting the shaft since there is only one handle on the right side. Won’t pushing the lower handle twist he shaft to the right? Jim Patrick

[ABoer]

Most of the time I heat the Brake Pedal and bent them backwards .
Till he is vertical between the top and bottom of the Pedal .
Toon

[jiminbartow]

I appreciate everyone’s help and advice to my questions. Today, I tried various “monkey wrenches” and lever tools, but due to the cowl gas tank, there is only about 8” between the top on the pedal and the tank, so there is no way to get enough leverage to pull the brake pedal back to any degree, so I am convinced that those pedal bending tools were meant to be used with either the engine out, or the body off. It may be different for pre-1926, non-cowl tank T’s. I am running out of daylight, so I tomorrow, when I am fresh, I will be removing the brake pedal so I can put it in a bench Vice and see what I can do to bend the pedal shaft to the correct angle, even with the clutch pedal. By far, my biggest concern is removing the brake band nut and washer without dropping them in the pan, so I have packed plenty of rags around and under the nut to minimize the chances of that happening. I do have the transmission band spring clamp and wrench on a chain tool, which will also help to avoid disaster. I will post the success or failure of my efforts tomorrow with pictures. Wish me luck. Jim Patrick

[Scott_Conger]

Jim

if you think the pedal bending tool was useless, wait until you try to use that band tool.

[jiminbartow]

LOL! The last thing I did today was remove the pedal. I was holding my breath the whole time and was able to get the nut and washer out without losing my grip on it. Believe it or not, that tool worked perfectly and I would have been unable to do it without it. After sliding the brake pedal out, the band tool is holding the spring in place between the band lugs. One less thing to worry about dropping. I will attempt the bending of the pedal tomorrow. Jim Patrick

[TRDxB2]

Bending tools - problem is the bench that the vise is on needs to be bolted to the floor. Two bar clamps work too.

[jiminbartow]

As you can see by the posted time, I couldn’t wait until tomorrow, so I got up and went ahead and got the job done with what I feel is a great deal of success! I mounted the pedal shaft in a vice, at the point where the shaft changes direction. After getting it good and tight, I tried using a long handled monkey wrench, to no avail. It just would not bend to the degree I needed it to, so, I took a 5 lb. sledge hammer and commenced to striking it at the bend at the top just behind the pedal with several well aimed blows to get it to bend in the desired direction. After four times of taking the pedal out of the vice and sliding it into the hogshead to see how close I was and, each time striking it somemore, I finally got it as close as I think it would go. 2” is a lot of correction and I did not want to crack my brake pedal or shaft. It is not perfect, but better than it was and close to how it was originally designed to be even with the clutch pedal and the brake pedal and it no longer comes close to bottoming out against the floorboard. I am posting some pictures of the process and the final results, which you can compare with my first pictures. I am happy with it. Thanks again for your help, suggestions and advice. As usual, I could not have done it without all of you who responded. Now I can sleep… Jim Patrick

PS. The red glyptal coating the interior of the hogshead was applied 12 years ago, in 2010. Purity, ain’t it.

[Alan Long]

I wear size 13 Shoes and the spacing of Model T Pedals is a pain for me. I always drive barefoot (or just Socks)
And set my Reverse Pedal up to be as rearward as possible so it could be applied before my feet hit the other two pedals. The set up looks like photos you see from the time and I like this better than the reverse extension plate you can buy.
Appears that you have done a great job on your set up and glad it works for you too. They can certainly take some punishment eh??
Alan in Western Australia