BEST BRAKES?!

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:59 pm

As I have noted in a few posts recently, I am a new owner of my first T. 1926 Coupe. Would love to get feedback from you all on the forum of best brakes to get. I noticed this weekend that there was a point where the person showing me how to drive could not get the car to stop too quickly and he was maybe going 15 MPH. it slid a lot. I don't know if it was his foot being unfamiliar to my car or just t brakes issues we all know about. I have never had a hard time braking with the car for the month I have owned it but do notice the pedal has been going a bit low - which we adjusted. I know the brakes are new so I am not sure it is a brake issue. I am going back and forth on if I should get Rockies or something of that ilk. Have read some items on the threads but it is always good to ask fresh.....Can I ask you all for some thoughts on getting a different type of brake or not? Disc brakes are not really what I want but know some folks have talked about them. Sorry for all the questions. Lisa

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:05 pm

Model Ts only have braking for the rear wheels. That limits braking ability. If the back wheels are sliding, that's all the braking there is. You might want to check the tire pressure. Excessive tire pressure will reduce braking capability. Very old, hardened tires can also reduce traction and braking ability. Auxilliary brakes are a good thing to have, but you will still have only rear wheel brakes. I don't know enough about auxilliary brakes to make a recommendation. Others with experience will. The best braking with the most control will be obtained when the wheels are just short of sliding or skidding. Each car is a little different, and getting used to your car and its limits will make driving easier.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:38 pm

Thank you TXGOAT. Yes they are rear wheel and I know braking is limited. Tires are new. Pressure was checked. Auxillary is what I am referencing......Any other period correct options.....or any options at all.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:49 pm

Can you identify what type of band lining you may have or knowledge from the previous owner as to what was installed ? Different lining materials react different to pedal pressure & adjustment.

Post by **walber** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:16 pm

Best is relative

Most effective and easiest to modulate would be disk brakes but there is the obvious downside if you are concerned about authenticity or appearance. I would seriously consider them for my car if I didn't already have a good option in place.

Rocky Mountain brakes as produced in the last 25+ years work well when going forward and dry. My experience is they are poor at best in reverse or when wet. At least they look like they could be an authentic accessory. I used them for several years and understood them so they were "OK".

I have no experience with the AC brakes but understand they work for both forward and reverse, don't know about wet.

On a '26 or '27 large drum car the hand brake is an effective backup plan if the linings and drums are good and you can actually react to use them. With pressed steel drums, riding them or over use can cause significant brake fade.

Some folks have developed hydraulic drum brakes over the years for both front and rear wheels but there are no commercially available kits. Somewhat significant modification is required, especially for front wheel brakes. These require understanding what you are doing in the design as well as accepting some personal risk.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:48 pm

As far as I know, no outside contracting brake will work well when wet or muddy. That would include most, if not all Model T auxilliary brakes with the exception of the disc brake setup. I have a '27 T roadster with good stock parking/emergency brakes, and it will easily lock both rear wheels when the lever is pulled back, which also takes the car out of gear. The foot brake will also slide the wheels if the throttle is released and/or the clutch disengaged by pushing the clutch pedal halfway down. New brakes may need a short period of "break in" use before they will be fully effective and hold an adjustment well.

Post by **speedytinc** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:53 pm

There is also a system available to use your big drum parking brake as service brakes with your trans brake. That will give you, essentially the same braking as R/M's, but less prone to water loss & will work in reverse. I personally have a parking brake extension for those times I "NEED" extra brakes.
The key to driving a T is to drive like you have no brakes. Leave extra room, anticipate, drive ahead of yourself & be ready to be cut off by someone that can stop on a dime. Drive the safest speed for conditions & traffic. If you are able to lock the brakes to a skid, you are doing your best. Adding R/M's or your parking brakes(when adjusted properly) will make that skid even/controllable to both wheels over the transmission brake only.

2nighthawks · Post by **2nighthawks** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pm

Speedyinc - You said, "there is also a system available to use your big drum parking brake as service brakes with your trans brake".

I would really like to know ( from speedyinc or anybody else) more about such a system,.....? (...anybody???) Thanks in advance,.....harold

Post by **speedytinc** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:15 pm

2nighthawks wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pm
Speedyinc - You said, "there is also a system available to use your big drum parking brake as service brakes with your trans brake".

I would really like to know ( from speedyinc or anybody else) more about such a system,.....? (...anybody???) Thanks in advance,.....harold

Langs model T parts #2566beq. One of our club members is running this & very happy.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:02 pm

John gave the best advice - "The key to driving a T is to drive like you have no brakes. Leave extra room, anticipate, drive ahead of yourself & be ready to be cut off by someone that can stop on a dime. Drive the safest speed for conditions & traffic. If you are able to lock the brakes to a skid, you are doing your best. Adding R/M's or your parking brakes(when adjusted properly) will make that skid even/controllable to both wheels over the transmission brake only."

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:11 pm

Steve makes a very good point. If you can lock up your wheels with the brakes you have, adding extra brakes to the rear wheels is an exercise in futility.
You mentioned that new brakes/linings were fitted. These do need re-adjustment as they settle in. This may mean four or five such adjustments before they are at their optimum.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:00 pm

I installed disc brakes after two scary experiences in the hills of southern Indiana. I absolutely love them. Being hydraulic they require no adjustment and in the unlikely possibility that the hydraulics fail, the original brakes still function. The advice to drive like you have no brakes is good, but if a situation arises, you want the best brakes you can get.

JEC · Post by **JEC** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:56 pm

I have my AC brakes set up so that the transmission brake doesn't come on until the pedal is almost to the floor.
Less wear and tear on the transmission. Ideally the transmission and AC brakes will all lock up at the same time.
If you skid the wheels you are getting less braking than you are getting just before the point of skid.
when you brake you are converting your forward motion into heat through the brake linings. when the brakes lock up this
process stops and the conversion is through the sliding tires on the rear of the car. not much friction there.
That's why abs systems pulse. it brakes up to the skid point and then backs off.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:50 pm

Rajo - I am told they are kevlar? I thought they were cotton.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:50 pm

RajoRacer wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:49 pm
Can you identify what type of band lining you may have or knowledge from the previous owner as to what was installed ? Different lining materials react different to pedal pressure & adjustment.

I am told they are kevlar....i thought they were cotton!

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:51 pm

walber wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:16 pm
Best is relative

Most effective and easiest to modulate would be disk brakes but there is the obvious downside if you are concerned about authenticity or appearance. I would seriously consider them for my car if I didn't already have a good option in place.

Rocky Mountain brakes as produced in the last 25+ years work well when going forward and dry. My experience is they are poor at best in reverse or when wet. At least they look like they could be an authentic accessory. I used them for several years and understood them so they were "OK".

I have no experience with the AC brakes but understand they work for both forward and reverse, don't know about wet.

On a '26 or '27 large drum car the hand brake is an effective backup plan if the linings and drums are good and you can actually react to use them. With pressed steel drums, riding them or over use can cause significant brake fade.

Some folks have developed hydraulic drum brakes over the years for both front and rear wheels but there are no commercially available kits. Somewhat significant modification is required, especially for front wheel brakes. These require understanding what you are doing in the design as well as accepting some personal risk.

I am in California....rain???? rare....and I would never drive in rain anyway. Not in a t.....

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:53 pm

2nighthawks wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pm
Speedyinc - You said, "there is also a system available to use your big drum parking brake as service brakes with your trans brake".

I would really like to know ( from speedyinc or anybody else) more about such a system,.....? (...anybody???) Thanks in advance,.....harold

Speedy - yes, I would like to know also! Also, I am in LA.....and I believe you are Orange County....

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:54 pm

Allan wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:11 pm
Steve makes a very good point. If you can lock up your wheels with the brakes you have, adding extra brakes to the rear wheels is an exercise in futility.
You mentioned that new brakes/linings were fitted. These do need re-adjustment as they settle in. This may mean four or five such adjustments before they are at their optimum.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

Thank you allen.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:57 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:15 pm

2nighthawks wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pm
Speedyinc - You said, "there is also a system available to use your big drum parking brake as service brakes with your trans brake".

I would really like to know ( from speedyinc or anybody else) more about such a system,.....? (...anybody???) Thanks in advance,.....harold
Langs model T parts #2566beq. One of our club members is running this & very happy.

Thank you. I will speak with Tom Leroux and the Long Beach guys when I am down there on Saturday

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:58 pm

I think I answered everyone in their respective thread. Readiing about Rockies also....

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:38 am

I haven't seen this mentioned yet. If you are using an auxiliary rear axle or transmission (Ruckstell, Warford, Muncie, Chicago, etc.) auxiliary brakes are practically a requirement. I have some AC brakes I intend to install along with a Ruckstell.

I think the horribleness of Model T brakes is often overstated. No, they're not as good as the brakes in a modern car, but sometimes their inadequacy is exaggerated.

Driving across several states in the relatively flat middle of the country I've found the stock Model T quite adequate. When I venture east of Wheeling or west of Denver I'll want a gear between Ford high and Ford low for climbing and descending grades without creeping along with the low pedal mashed down and the engine racing. That will call for extra brakes too.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:22 pm

Is this the FAMOUS Steve Jelf? Thank you for weighing in! I am thrilled. Ok, I do not yet have a warford, Ruxtell et al. I am going to leave the car as is and focus on the brakes. I am still learning to drive a T and quite honestly I am slow learning two speeds - why add more? Never say never and I will see down the road how I feel on it.

I agree on the stopping. It is not as bad as I thought - until the Model T member teaching me almost slid through the intersection - going 15 or less. SO I don't know if it was he did not press hard enough because it was my car and he was not used to it, if his foot got stuck or if something else. We went back to the house and adjusted but I did not test myself as I had to be to an appt. The brakes were new to the car from the previous owner (Model T member) who had the car two years.

So the question is - will another braking system help significantly more or not. And will it only incrementally help if a Warford et al are added. Will keep reading and figuring out....Lisa

Post by **walber** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:44 pm

Steve is absolutely correct that the inclusion of an auxiliary transmission or Ruckstell should make brakes at the wheels a necessity.

BTW, living in Western Washington, I'd never own a car that I couldn't drive in the rain. Not that I like to, just that rain happens. I highly favor green over tan.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:51 pm

Lisa - if you're positive you have Kevlar linings, be careful to not get too aggressive in over tightening the bands - Kevlar don't like to be dragged on the drums !

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:02 pm

Personally I like front brakes. Several era versions were offered. The radius rod can be reasonably easily doubled. The kingpins have not proven to be a problem. Coupled with a era accessory real steering box and it drives pretty good.
Unfortunately NO I’m not offering to supply them as the “naysayers” have worn me out! You can bid on them at my estate sale.

Tim Rogers · Post by **Tim Rogers** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:12 pm

Lisa- if your current brake set up is locking up the rear wheels, a set of aftermarket brakes isn't going to help you. What is it that you want to accomplish?

I would advise learning how to slow down and stop a Model T in the way it was designed and drive it accordingly.

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Post by **Gracie'sDad** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:13 pm

My advice is to install hydraulic disk brakes and forget about it.....unless you are obsessed with originality. I am a "city driver" and I wouldn't drive my T without disk brakes. Good luck.

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:16 pm

lirogo27 wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:50 pm

RajoRacer wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:49 pm
Can you identify what type of band lining you may have or knowledge from the previous owner as to what was installed ? Different lining materials react different to pedal pressure & adjustment.

I am told they are kevlar....i thought they were cotton!

That would be the band lining, not rear shoe lining. If indeed someone put kevlar or cotton on the rear shoes, that needs to be replaced ASAP as it is the wrong material for brakes of any kind outside the transmission. BUT, I think they were talking about the transmission bands not the rear parking brakes.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:36 pm

After specifically seeking out and buying a 100 year old piece of technology, I often wonder what the point is, to immediately strip it of many or all of the very things that make it 100 year old technology?

If a museum insists on keeping children from drawing moustaches on portraits, is that an "obsession with originality" or is it good stewardship? Would the Mona Lisa be a more fetching painting if it had a toothy grin applied? Or is keeping the painting original merely an "obsession" which will fade with the next generation?

There are very few positive examples of ANYTHING that is defined as an obsession, and even when it is used in a positive light, it is used to show a focus on a subject to the exclusion of all other options, views or opinions. It is a shame that it be used to describe anyone wishing to keep a 100 year old car, 100 years old. This was a very genteel version of the more typical and usual snide remarks towards those who value the cars for what they WERE, and for that, I suppose those of us so inclined, should be grateful (like one is grateful for finding their car had been keyed the night before, rather than having it outright stolen).

Tim Rogers · Post by **Tim Rogers** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:54 pm

Scott Conger- yes! So tired of the word "Purist" used in a negative tone on this forum.

If one desires a vehicle with modern braking capabilities don't buy a Model T...

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lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:00 pm

Tim Rogers wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:12 pm
Lisa- if your current brake set up is locking up the rear wheels, a set of aftermarket brakes isn't going to help you. What is it that you want to accomplish?

I would advise learning how to slow down and stop a Model T in the way it was designed and drive it accordingly.

pedals.jpg

Tim, UMMMMMMMM it wasn't me driving. It was the person showing me who wanted to take it around the block for a spin. We were going 15 tops. Hard to do more on Laurel Canyon with all the stop lights between Magnolia and Moorpark.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:00 pm

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:16 pm

lirogo27 wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:50 pm

RajoRacer wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:49 pm
Can you identify what type of band lining you may have or knowledge from the previous owner as to what was installed ? Different lining materials react different to pedal pressure & adjustment.

I am told they are kevlar....i thought they were cotton!
That would be the band lining, not rear shoe lining. If indeed someone put kevlar or cotton on the rear shoes, that needs to be replaced ASAP as it is the wrong material for brakes of any kind outside the transmission. BUT, I think they were talking about the transmission bands not the rear parking brakes.

Yes I am probably misunderstanding the question.......Let me figure it out.....

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:01 pm

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:36 pm
After specifically seeking out and buying a 100 year old piece of technology, I often wonder what the point is, to immediately strip it of many or all of the very things that make it 100 year old technology?

If a museum insists on keeping children from drawing moustaches on portraits, is that an "obsession with originality" or is it good stewardship? Would the Mona Lisa be a more fetching painting if it had a toothy grin applied? Or is keeping the painting original merely an "obsession" which will fade with the next generation?

There are very few positive examples of ANYTHING that is defined as an obsession, and even when it is used in a positive light, it is used to show a focus on a subject to the exclusion of all other options, views or opinions. It is a shame that it be used to describe anyone wishing to keep a 100 year old car, 100 years old. This was a very genteel version of the more typical and usual snide remarks towards those who value the cars for what they WERE, and for that, I suppose those of us so inclined, should be grateful (like one is grateful for finding their car had been keyed the night before, rather than having it outright stolen).

I do not want disc brakes. I agree.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:02 pm

Something to consider with any auxilliary brake setup (other than the discs) is the very limited ability of the Model T pressed steel brake drums to get rid of heat. This would not likely be an issue with the ocasional panic stop, or in light to moderate use in general driving, but in a situation like descending a long downgrade with many hairpin turns, the brake drums would quickly get very, very hot. An auxilliary outside brake band would allow you to apply friction to both the inner and outer surface of the drum, giving you more braking surface, but it would do nothing to enhance heat dissipation from the drum, and might actually hinder it, at the same time it would nearly double your ability to dump heat into the drum itself during sustained use. If you drive in mountain country and want effective brakes for serious downhill driving, you probably need discs or a modern drum brake setup designed for modern day braking demands. You'll still have only rear wheel brakes, but the brakes themselves will be able to stand the heat and stress of demanding use.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:03 pm

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:02 pm
Personally I like front brakes. Several era versions were offered. The radius rod can be reasonably easily doubled. The kingpins have not proven to be a problem. Coupled with a era accessory real steering box and it drives pretty good.
Unfortunately NO I’m not offering to supply them as the “naysayers” have worn me out! You can bid on them at my estate sale.

I don't know what period front brakes you are referencing.......

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:03 pm

Gracie'sDad wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:13 pm
My advice is to install hydraulic disk brakes and forget about it.....unless you are obsessed with originality. I am a "city driver" and I wouldn't drive my T without disk brakes. Good luck.

No disc brakes here Gracie's dad......I just cant do it to this car......

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:43 pm

Hydraulic rear drum brakes using’50’s era components have been offered in the recent past. With cast iron brake drums and self adjusters and Bendix design they work really in all driving conditions.

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:45 pm

Hydraulic rear drum brakes using’50’s era components have been offered in the recent past. With cast iron brake drums and self adjusters and Bendix design they work really in all driving conditions. The drums are 10”, so they are almost invisible on 26-7 rear axle.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:23 pm

I am in California....rain???? rare....and I would never drive in rain anyway. Not in a t.....

I prefer not to drive in the rain if I can help it....sometimes mother nature has a different idea

BTW - my passengers were from California...

Post by **Gracie'sDad** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:06 pm

I'm sorry if I have upset some of you. The post wished to obtain people's opinion on "BEST BRAKES", I did that. I AM "obsessed with originality", that's why I drive a 100 year old automobile. I have great reverence to early automotive engineering and all that it represents. But loading up loved ones destined for a leisurely drive and probably ice cream in my beautiful 99% original '23 Touring with minimal braking power is nuts. Compared to all other vehicles sharing the road, the Model T is already inherently unsafe in nearly all regards. I feel an effort to improve stopping power is not unreasonable. I don't care if you use Rocky Mountains, Fred Flintstones or any other device that is capable of retarding "T" forward (or reverse) motion it is a damned good idea. For me, I love my disk brakes. You have my blessing to operate your vehicle any way you wish.

Post by **Art M** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:27 pm

Lisa,
You said that you drove between magnolia and moorpark. This appears to be commercial district. I counted 8 traffic lights over a distance of 2 mile. The ground appears to be flat, but very hilly south of that.

I suggest a rextell accompanied by auxiliary brakes if you plan to use the car in that region. I understand that the AC brakes work in forward and reverse.

I live in the flat lands of Ohio and don't have either. But I would like to have them on the occasional 50 foot 8 percent hills.

Art Mirtes

Post by **Art M** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:28 pm

It is one Mike not two. Typo

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:43 pm

Gracie'sDad wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:06 pm
I'm sorry if I have upset some of you. The post wished to obtain people's opinion on "BEST BRAKES", I did that. I AM "obsessed with originality", that's why I drive a 100 year old automobile. I have great reverence to early automotive engineering and all that it represents. But loading up loved ones destined for a leisurely drive and probably ice cream in my beautiful 99% original '23 Touring with minimal braking power is nuts. Compared to all other vehicles sharing the road, the Model T is already inherently unsafe in nearly all regards. I feel an effort to improve stopping power is not unreasonable. I don't care if you use Rocky Mountains, Fred Flintstones or any other device that is capable of retarding "T" forward (or reverse) motion it is a damned good idea. For me, I love my disk brakes. You have my blessing to operate your vehicle any way you wish.

Gracie's Dad! You did not upset me. I was just saying I would like to try to stay original until it becomes obvious I should not stay original. I will drive the car around a bit more to see if it was truly the driver or the brakes the other day. I did not have problems with my brakes before then and I had the car a few weeks.

Also, use in my situation will be light driving enjoying the car around town. No large tours. No long hauls. Likely no hills for quite some time. Just enjoying via light driving. Also, as my car is a coupe...there will be barely room for a second person. So that is why I ut this question out there on the forum...information. I wanted viewpoints from all of you.

So we will see. I have only owned this car for a few weeks now. Baby steps for me.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:43 pm

Art M wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:27 pm
Lisa,
You said that you drove between magnolia and moorpark. This appears to be commercial district. I counted 8 traffic lights over a distance of 2 mile. The ground appears to be flat, but very hilly south of that.

I suggest a rextell accompanied by auxiliary brakes if you plan to use the car in that region. I understand that the AC brakes work in forward and reverse.

I live in the flat lands of Ohio and don't have either. But I would like to have them on the occasional 50 foot 8 percent hills.

Art Mirtes

Thank you ART!

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:45 pm

Art M wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:27 pm
Lisa,
You said that you drove between magnolia and moorpark. This appears to be commercial district. I counted 8 traffic lights over a distance of 2 mile. The ground appears to be flat, but very hilly south of that.

I suggest a rextell accompanied by auxiliary brakes if you plan to use the car in that region. I understand that the AC brakes work in forward and reverse.

I live in the flat lands of Ohio and don't have either. But I would like to have them on the occasional 50 foot 8 percent hills.

Art Mirtes

Yes....Laurel Canyon is north/south. Magnolia, Moorpark, Riverside and so forth are east west. We were driving south on Laurel Canyon. Anything south of Ventura Blvd. puts you in a situation where you will be going up hill fairly quickly...and then downhill when you cross Mulholland. I don't anticipate hills until 2025!

Post by **TRDxB2** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:27 pm

To be period correct there are only two available reproduction choices that I am aware of. For small drum axles the choices are Rocky Mountain Brakes or AC Brakes. The Large drum axle is limited to Rocky Mount Brakes. Rock Mounting Brakes have issue with working in reverse or when stopped on an upward incline.
How to install Rocky Mountain Brakes https://modeltfordfix.com/installing-ro ... in-brakes/
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1365691893
AC Brake discussions
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1314301720
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwVeIbRx7wE&t=116s
--
If being period correct is not as important as feeling safe, then there are reproduction disk brake kits for small drum wood wheels or for either large drum wood or wire wheels. For the DIY then hydraulic drum brakes. This is a discussion on a DIY drum setup for large drum rear (parts numbers are included) looks doable! viewtopic.php?t=5402
--
There appears to have been a hydraulic kit available but was discontinued many years ago
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1427675880
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1297032506
--
--
Four wheel nd Front wheel brakes there were....
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29 ... 1193146987

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Post by **RichJ** » Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:57 pm

I recently put Metro brakes on the front and back of a 1913 , this was more common in the 50's before the disk era, I'm with Les , 4 wheel brakes work well ESPECIALLY on a model T with not much rubber on the pavement ! Thanks to Les and Gene Carrothers for there help.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:40 am

It sounds to me like your present brakes are adequate for your anticipated driving patterns. If your brakes have recently been re-lined, they may need to be driven some and have some adjustments made to be fully effective. If the brakes are capable of sliding both rear wheels when correctly applied, they are doing all that can be done to stop the car. Driving the car in an area as nearly free of traffic as possible will allow you to "get the feel" of the car's controls and get an idea of how much stopping power you have available. Driving a Model T requires different responses from the driver than does driving a modern car. Accumulating some time behind the wheel is essential. If adjustments are needed for the brakes, transmission pedals, steering, and so forth, getting any needed adjustments or repairs done,and done correctly, will make starting driving, and stopping the car much more enjoyable and much safer. Model Ts reward good maintenence, including monitoring tire pressure and condition and lubricating all the many moving parts of the car and its control mechanisms as recommended, which is often. If at all possible, drive the car in an area with light traffic or no traffic as you get used to handling it. Driving any motor vehicle is an acquired skill, and driving a Model T requires all the same skills as driving a modern car, and a few more besides. All vehicles have limits that must be respected to avoid unpleasantness.

Tim Rogers · Post by **Tim Rogers** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:03 am

Lisa, I find it most interesting that no one on this thread has pointed out the fact that your car's brake set up does not stop or slow down your vehicle- this function belongs to your tires! Keep this fact in mind as you consider any modifications.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:20 am

I attempted to make that very significant point up the page.

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:43 am

I will point out that the width of the tires has only a small effect on the grip. Yes it provides longer wear life, but the coefficient of friction of rubber to pavement is only minimally affected by the area of surface contact. This point was discussed in considerable detail in 4th year mechanical engineering!

Post by **TRDxB2** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:08 pm

Regardless of what your driving: The Best Brake is by driving defensively by having the knowledge & experience in knowing when to apply what you have given your speed, road conditions and surrounding traffic. Shifting to low (engine braking) is part of the equation.
A panic stop in a Model T is only able to be executed with the the assistance of an outside agency.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:14 pm

The narrow width of the Model T tire is somewhat offset by the tire's diameter, which is around 30". However, the amount of rubber in contact with the road, the "contact patch", is quite limited, and Model T tires are not heavily loaded due to the cars light weight. If you don't think tire width has an effect on traction, try running your T on tires one inch wide. That said, wider tires of the same diameter (carrying the same load) will have a lower pressure against the road per square inch of contact surface than will a narrower tire. Doubling the contact surface alone would NOT double the traction available. Low unit pressure against the road can be a problem, especially on loose surfaces such as gravel. The quality, composition, and condition of the pavement surface can have a significant effect on tire traction. Tread design can have some effect on traction, and some designs perform better on pavement than others, and vice-versa. Other factors come into play, such as tread squirm, inflation, carcass deformation under braking, temperature, and many more. During the Model T era, especially the earlier years, most cars spent most of their time on non-paved surfaces. In such situations, the tire contact surface would often as not be expanded due to the tire sinking into the road surface to some degree. Wider, "Balloon" tires operating at far lower inflation pressures than the high pressure, narrow clincher tires, gave better overall performance on most surfaces, and particularly on paved surfaces. Model T stopping ability is compromised by lack of shock absorbers, which can alllow wheel bounce under hard braking, especially on irregular surfaces or poorly consolidated surfaces. Lack of shocks may also aggravate forward weight transfer under braking, would handicap braking on a vehicle with rear wheel only brakes.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:45 pm

I must say you folks are all thoughtful, precise and incredibly knowledgeable. Just brilliant. I am thrilled i am a member of your community and appreciate you giving me - a NEWBIE in every way - the courtesy and respect of a peer...... I will read all this thoroughly and thoughtfully. Lisa

Post by **SurfCityGene** » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:04 pm

Lisa, Welcome to the LBMTC. Sorry I don't I've had the pleasure of meeting you at Tom's shop or our meetings. What car did you end up getting? I've read many of the comments in this post and on a couple of others from some time ago with a Google search. Like always there's a lot of differing opinions and experiences. While not familiar with the Valley I do live in HB with the same basic race going on here at the Beach with the soccer moms or others cutting in front of our T just to hit the brakes to make that last minute turn into McD's. The type or need of aftermarket brakes is like which type of oil or brand of gas to use. A Model T without an aftermarket transmission and with it's original transmission brake is good condition and adjustment should be capable of locking up the rear wheels. No additional brake systems to the rear wheels will improve that. Knowing how quickly and in what distance it takes for your car to stop at what speeds will take a bit of driving for you to get the feel of the T.

A couple of posters have made reference to where we live and drive and what modifications are the best for us in our conditions. Not all of us drive our cars the same and each T has it's own special happy speed. This may be a result of many things like engine or aux tranny changes. A well tuned Model T in good mech condition should be able cruise all day long at 45 mph. Many of us here in SoCal have worked on our T's to flow better with the local traffic. I generally prefer the FREEWAY with no cross traffic, no red light right before you get there, no driver pulling in front to jam on their brakes and truck traffic at 55 limit I feel pretty safe in the right lane Most of the time. There are times that are much better than others though. Lots times we drive our T's on weekends and traffic is not rush hour madness. Wherever you drive it depends on the Flow of traffic.

Brakes are just one item to maintain. When you get your car in great shape and running good you'll get more comfortable driving it and knowing it's capabilities and limitations.

PS there is another T club in Orange County with helpful members like Long Beach. Many of us belong to both.

lirogo27 · Post by **lirogo27** » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:42 pm

Gene,

The LB guys are pretty special. They are polite. Enthusiastic. Non judgmental (at least to my face they aren't). Passionate about the T and just really nice guys. I bought a 1926 Coupe from a guy named Don that decided not to hot rod the car - didn't want to destroy it. Tom I believe did a repair on it for him and they got to talking and Tom said 'I have the buyer for you'. I drove down immediately and before I knew it....it was mine.

Car is in good running shape. Will need a few small tweaks and items. Definitely shows its wear and age but the bottom line is it runs very very well and I absolutely love it! It was the right one for me!

I will reach out to the OC folks. I am at Tom's every other Saturday. I think the world of him. Great guy and his knowledge is second to none. HANDS DOWN.

This T will never go on the freeway. My goal is an around town car to enjoy and appreciate. I look forward to meeting you.