Timer

[Keith Daniels]

I pulled the cap off the timer today, and I'll be ordering a loom. One of the connectors was holding on by about 2 strands, and of course it's not holding by any now. I am completely new to timers, I have no idea if this one is grooved to the point of needing replaced, or if this is typical for the New Day. What are your thoughts from anyone with experience with this make?

Thanks, Keith

[aDave]

Look at the post by Stan Howe (RIP) ...

https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=11903

[Keith Daniels]

Thanks aDave, that was a good thread. I'm sure I have plenty of room to face the inside of the cap!

[Art M]

David,
Thanks for your posting. I missed it 3 years ago and I have a 50 year old Best new day timer needs to be reworked.

Art Mirtes

[aDave]

You're welcome.
Lots of good information on this site...others have helped me----glad to help others

[John kuehn]

Your timer is a great candidate for a resurfacing! Don’t throw it away. Clean it up and you’ll be good to go for quite awhile. You use to see these timers at swap meets in buckets of this and that. Still see them but not as often. It’s one of the most reliable timers over the years. More than a few people swear by them. Good luck!

[TWrenn]

Thanks aDave, that was a good thread. I'm sure I have plenty of room to face the inside of the cap!

If your brush looks like this one plan on resurfacing it OFTEN. This was on my Fordor for a mere 500 miles til I got so fed up resurfacing the timer I found a TW timer that someone had that didn't want or need. That solved all my problems. The guys that swear by the New Day timer most likely have the good type of brush. I swore AT mine til I got rid of it!

[Keith Daniels]

Thanks aDave, that was a good thread. I'm sure I have plenty of room to face the inside of the cap!

If your brush looks like this one plan on resurfacing it OFTEN. This was on my Fordor for a mere 500 miles til I got so fed up resurfacing the timer I found a TW timer that someone had that didn't want or need. That solved all my problems. The guys that swear by the New Day timer most likely have the good type of brush. I swore AT mine til I got rid of it!

By looking like that do you mean the silver body? That was mentioned in the linked thread as being a similar to New Day but not made by them. Or do you just mean the brush itself doesn't stay in place, like the one pictured?

[jiminbartow]

In the past 53 years of owning my 1926 Model T Coupe, I have tried just about every timer on the market and have come full circle back to the original roller type Tiger timer that came on the car. As great as my T runs now, I wish I had stuck with the roller type timer all along. Would have saved a lot of money and frustration. Jim Patrick

[TWrenn]

Thanks aDave, that was a good thread. I'm sure I have plenty of room to face the inside of the cap!

If your brush looks like this one plan on resurfacing it OFTEN. This was on my Fordor for a mere 500 miles til I got so fed up resurfacing the timer I found a TW timer that someone had that didn't want or need. That solved all my problems. The guys that swear by the New Day timer most likely have the good type of brush. I swore AT mine til I got rid of it!

By looking like that do you mean the silver body? That was mentioned in the linked thread as being a similar to New Day but not made by them. Or do you just mean the brush itself doesn't stay in place, like the one pictured?

Basically both Keith, no doubt this is a repop of the N.D. brush holder and the brush itself. I'm only assuming it's made by the same people that have been "repopping" the timer itself. As we all know, a while back there was the infamous "S" version, which ironically most of us dubbed it standing for "S--t"!! I was at a friends house last week looking at a big stash of old, mostly original timers, both roller and a N.D., and his brush holder (rotor) and brush were clearly original and as "solid" as could be. These repop brushes and holers are just plain junk.

[Rich P. Bingham]

I'll always have a soft spot for the (original) New Day. Ran one in my first T 60 years ago when I couldn't get the original roller type to work. I have an idea it forgives the timing gear cover being off center, something I knew nothing about back then.

As for the reproductions, of late it seems the body of the newer ones is acceptable, which the "S" type were not. The brush is problematic as noted, both for the poor fit-up, and it's my impression the brush itself is the wrong material, too hard ! I believe the originals were of a graphite impregnated bronze, self lubricating and not so hard as to wear out the cover. Perhaps the repro could be improved by making a better fitting brush from a discarded starter motor brush ?

I intended to run a New Day when I got my current Lizzie, but she came with a TW which has been very satisfactory in every way, no reason to change.

[Keith Daniels]

I did a patch up clean tonight, and the timer is getting some oil in it, maybe that's the downside of changing the oil a couple times so it's not so thick!

Contact cleaner and emery cloth lightly by hand until the new loom comes in, ended up putting 2 new ring terminals on this time. Old, stiff and brittle wire. After cleanup she ran a lot better, maybe the new loom will finish the job.

I assume the dished aluminum plate is meant to deflect oil that leaks from the seal on the cam shaft? The center hole is a little chewed up. From what I'm reading I think I have the good brush; it just took a real light emery to get most of the grooves out.

[Poppie]

Keith,
I wouldn't worry about those radial grooves, my concern is the colour of the timer contact surface and the blue colour on the brush. The timer surface looks burnt indicating an excessive coil current draw. could need your coils adjusted for a lower draw or excessive timer brush pressure.
Do you run on Battery or Mag?....n

[DanTreace]

I assume the dished aluminum plate is meant to deflect oil that leaks from the seal on the cam shaft? The center hole is a little chewed up.

Yes, the plate is std. Ford to help seal the felt washer, for the Ford roller timer , but be sure to use it with your New Day ‘forward facing’ brush. Without the plate that brush can dig into the felt seal and create a lot of fuzz and cause mis fires.

[Keith Daniels]

Keith,
I wouldn't worry about those radial grooves, my concern is the colour of the timer contact surface and the blue colour on the brush. The timer surface looks burnt indicating an excessive coil current draw. could need your coils adjusted for a lower draw or excessive timer brush pressure.
Do you run on Battery or Mag?....n

Run on mag. The color seemed more like carbon but surely could be excessive heat from arcing. I'm trying to go through one thing at a time for the most part, that eliminates variables. The coils "looked" like new rebuilds, but they are next on the list, I'll go back to the timer when the new loom shows up. Thanks.

[Keith Daniels]

I assume the dished aluminum plate is meant to deflect oil that leaks from the seal on the cam shaft? The center hole is a little chewed up.

Yes, the plate is std. Ford to help seal the felt washer, for the Ford roller timer , but be sure to use it with your New Day ‘forward facing’ brush. Without the plate that brush can dig into the felt seal and create a lot of fuzz and cause mis fires.

I will check it again when I put the new loom on. There was an oil coating inside the timer, as you can tell by the picture of the rotor. It's hard to see the seal but I think it was a modern seal instead of felt. Apparently the plate was in upside down then, the recessed center was out, to help seal the felt I would think it would need to be in toward the block, correct? Thanks.

[DanTreace]

[/quote]
I will check it again when I put the new loom on. There was an oil coating inside the timer, as you can tell by the picture of the rotor. It's hard to see the seal but I think it was a modern seal instead of felt. Apparently the plate was in upside down then, the recessed center was out, to help seal the felt I would think it would need to be in toward the block, correct? Thanks.
[/quote]

Check close if a new metal face modern seal is there.

If so, you can discard the metal shield, it is only for use if a felt seal is in the front plate cam recess.

Shield in place for a felt seal under it.

Felt seal

Modern seal, no shield is needed!

Modern seal tapped in place with silicone sealer, and smear over the seal to help prevent any oil seepage, the modern seal metal collar fits sometimes a bit loose, so use a good oil proof sealer to assist in 'oil free zone' for your New Day timer!

IMG_2511.jpeg (89.84 KiB) Viewed 3673 times

[Keith Daniels]

That is the way the plate was on, after seeing your picture I don't think it has felt, I likely would have noticed that. Thanks.

[Steve Jelf]

A heads-up for anybody who wants to "go original" and use the felt seal and brass shield: for a long time the reproduction shields were made undersized, and the roller timer covers were unable to hold them in place.That may no longer be the case, but be sure the shield you use is big enough for a proper fit. You don't want it flopping loose inside the cover.

[TWrenn]

That is the way the plate was on, after seeing your picture I don't think it has felt, I likely would have noticed that. Thanks.

So if it doesn't/didn't have felt then it must've had the modern seal? Which as others said does not need the metal plate. Someone may have screwed up putting it in erroneously.

It does look like you at least have the better brush.

[Keith Daniels]

This plate is actually aluminum, it may have a felt seal, but I sure didn't notice it if it did. The OD is big enough that the cover clamps down on it, I would think one loose inside would create some problems!

[speedytinc]

I did a patch up clean tonight, and the timer is getting some oil in it, maybe that's the downside of changing the oil a couple times so it's not so thick!

Contact cleaner and emery cloth lightly by hand until the new loom comes in, ended up putting 2 new ring terminals on this time. Old, stiff and brittle wire. After cleanup she ran a lot better, maybe the new loom will finish the job.

I assume the dished aluminum plate is meant to deflect oil that leaks from the seal on the cam shaft? The center hole is a little chewed up. From what I'm reading I think I have the good brush; it just took a real light emery to get most of the grooves out.DSC02377.JPGDSC02376.JPGDSC02375.JPG

These timers are meant to run dry. This is no good. You need a working seal. The cam nut seal surface needs to be smooth enough to work with a neoprene lip seal. If no, it needs to be replaced, which means removing the cover.
If you cant stop the oil leaking into the timer, Go to a roller timer. Roller timers require regular oiling, so a leaking cam wont effect timer performance.

[Keith Daniels]

Thanks John, that's what I've learned, I'm going to try and get it sealed up!

[Quickm007]

John is right, I face up the same thing, if you are not able to fix leaks go with the roller one.I used both and work well

[speedytinc]

Thanks John, that's what I've learned, I'm going to try and get it sealed up!

IMO the new day timer has the potential of being the best/long lived possible timer system.(non electronic)
I replace the copper or brass brushes with a soft carbon brush from a generator & remove the sloppy nature.
I have 4+ years running on my most recent brush & it isnt 1/2 worn yet. The body contact interior has ZERO wear. Still smooth as when freshly refurbished. I wipe any dust out once a year.

[Keith Daniels]

Thanks John, that's what I've learned, I'm going to try and get it sealed up!

IMO the new day timer has the potential of being the best/long lived possible timer system.(non electronic)
I replace the copper or brass brushes with a soft carbon brush from a generator & remove the sloppy nature.
I have 4+ years running on my most recent brush & it isnt 1/2 worn yet. The body contact interior has ZERO wear. Still smooth as when freshly refurbished. I wipe any dust out once a year.

Can you actually find a brush with a good fit, or just get one a little bigger and cut it down?

[speedytinc]

Cut down a larger brush. T gen brush is a good base size.
Shape with a sanding disk. Cuts like butter. Can use a file. Drill for the spring recess.
Fit just small enough to slide easily in the holder.