Wheel runout

[Harvey Bergstrom]

I have respoked my steel felloe wheels on my T using a Regan press a friend borrowed me. After carefully reviewing videos to see how this is done, and being mechanically inclined, I proceeded to pursue this job myself. All went well and after installing the wheels I found runout in every one of them. The worst on has a 1/4 Inch on left rear. I would like to reduced that to at least 1/8 inch. I believe the runout is in the felloe. Ruling out a bent axle as it is new. Will I have to take the wheels apart and repress the spokes? One thing I failed to do was to lay the felloes on a known flat surface to make sure they are completely flat. Live & learn I guess. Any response to this is greatly appreciated. I don’t want people following me down the road calling me “wiggly wheels”.

[CudaMan]

I have heard that the original Ford spec was no more than 1/4" of runout. That said, getting it to a minimum is a noble pursuit.

I have had good luck with loosening the hub bolts while the wheels are on the car, pulling the rims true by hand, then retightening the hub bolts.

[Don ellis]

If you had any paint on the angles on the hub end it will not be straight. Thick paint on the fellow will screw it up too. I had to take a little meat off the angles on the hub end also. I finally got mine to go in straight and run true. Don’t be satisfied with 1/4 “, get it straight.

[Norman Kling]

You didn't state whether you have de-mountable rims. If you do, it can be adjusted a bit by the way you tighten the lugs. A very small run out at the hub is multiplied by the length of the spoke. So just hitting the back side of the spokes with a sander on the end can straighten it up a bit. However, if you have already peened the nuts, it might not be worth trying to do over again. You might need to work on it a few times until you get it within range. As long as the spokes are tight it might not cause any problems.
Norm

[Allan]

Norman, are there steel felloe wheels which are non demountable? Have I missed something?

Allan from down under.

[Norman Kling]

If you have not yet peened the bolts, you can mark the half of the wheel you want to move toward the center of the car. Then you will need to number each spoke so you will re-install in the same order and also mark the hub with the location of each spoke so it will also be installed in the same location. Then disassemble the hub from the spokes and sand just slightly the side of each spoke which will contact the hub on just those spokes want to move toward the center of the car. Then re-assemble in the same order with the same spokes in the same order against the same location on the hub. This would be a lot of work and I personally would leave the wheel as it now is if it were my car.
Norm

[Wayne Sheldon]

Personally? I would not take them apart. Good new spokes that haven't been abused (yet?) would lose some small amount of their fit and strength taking them apart and putting them together again. That may not be enough to significantly harm them? But it could?
A quarter inch of wobble is considered within reasonable. I have actually run a couple that were worse than that on a speedster that I routinely ran at 70 mph. I know of a couple wood wheel racing cars with wobbly wheels that have been run in excess of 90 mph! At the speeds most model Ts run? Wooden wheels wobbling that much are not something to really worry about.

Wooden wheels are a lot stronger than most people want to believe. They were not something done back in the day because they didn't know any better back then!
AS LONG AS the wood is reasonably good (even decent hundred year old wood can be plenty strong! (Try breaking one some day, I have.), and the entire wheel is properly TIGHT, the wheel almost cannot break under normal use! They can break in a significant impact. Accidents often break wheels. Breaking wheels almost never cause accidents!
The only wheels I have seen that broke without a collision of some sort? Were wheels somebody glued broken or otherwise damaged spokes or fellies back together (a HUGE NO-NO), or steel pieces that were rusted so badly that the steel broke!
Good tight wheels are like a geodesic dome. The way the pieces fit together, the whole becomes a single unit of incredible strength.

Allan B, In the 1920s, on the cheaper model open cars without the demountable rims option, some (only some) USA built model Ts got non-demountable wheels with an integral single unit felley and rim, all steel! The wooden spokes press into them just like the common steel felley demountable wheels, although the spokes would probably have to be custom made. They are not common, and are rarely seen on restored cars. But they are out there.

[speedytinc]

Confirm the fellow is not the issue.
Loosen the bolts & smack the rim on the center of the high spot inside & out.

I have seen a wheel restorer lightly true up the hub surfaces with a router to square them up.
Contact Dave Seiler.

[Allan]

Runout in the felloe can often be improved by working on the four rim mounting bolts. Jack the car, put a block on the ground as a reference, and selectively tighten the rim bolts. The aim is to seat the rim a little differently on the felloe. You can usually improve things, but not necessarily get all the runout cancelled.

Allan from down under.

[Ken Buhler]

If the felloe was checked on the flat and the hub and plate were tightened on the spokes having no felloe, would you be able to see the problem?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Runout in the felloe can often be improved by working on the four rim mounting bolts. Jack the car, put a block on the ground as a reference, and selectively tighten the rim bolts. The aim is to seat the rim a little differently on the felloe. You can usually improve things, but not necessarily get all the runout cancelled.

Allan from down under.

Great advice.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I have seen a wheel restorer lightly true up the hub surfaces with a router to square them up.
Contact Dave Seiler.

I've done this too. Wheel runs dead straight now. I cut out a disc of plywood that lays on the face of the steel felloe. The plywood disc has a hole in the center for the router bit to protrude through. The center hole is also the guide for the router, so that I make a nice round recess cut in the spoke faces without cutting beyond the area where the hub flange sits. I probably removed no more than 1/16" in any given spot. Totally unnoticeable when reassembled.

[speedytinc]

I have seen a wheel restorer lightly true up the hub surfaces with a router to square them up.
Contact Dave Seiler.

I've done this too. Wheel runs dead straight now. I cut out a disc of plywood that lays on the face of the steel felloe. The plywood disc has a hole in the center for the router bit to protrude through. The center hole is also the guide for the router, so that I make a nice round recess cut in the spoke faces without cutting beyond the area where the hub flange sits. I probably removed no more than 1/16" in any given spot. Totally unnoticeable when reassembled.

That is what I have seen Dave Seiler do.
Wheels run with no run out.

[TXGOAT2]

I would aim for zero run out, either lateral or radial. Wheel and tire assemblies are heavy, and they will cause problems if they are not in balance and running true. A light car with no shocks, like a Model T, is highly susceptible to ride/handling issues stemming from out of balance or out of true wheel/tire assemblies.

[Allan]

Pat, you raise a good point about the weight/balance of the wheel assemblies. I cannot understand why folks fit an extra pound or two to the perimeter of the wheel in the form of a heavy, thick flap.

Allan from down under.

[Allan]

The New Zealander who does all my wheels has a big old lathe that takes a whole wheel. When he"s finished building the wheel with the double taper spokes like Canadian wheels, he puts the wheel on the lathe, trues the faces up and trues up the hub hole bore. The really neat part of the set-up is the use of T model transmission drums in the driveline of the flat belt drive on the lathe. I can't remember exactly how it works.

Allan from down under.