Timer brush help

[Paradise Garage]

Got my new timer brush today and taking a quick look at it my car does not appear to have any key way or slot to make the brush point a certain way. Am I missing something or do they just point wherever? Should I find tdc and point it to that?

[Scott_Conger]

looks like it has a keyway to me

take the old brush out and you'll see exactly how it goes

I hope you have a timer which actually uses that brush

[Steve Jelf]

The brush should have a notch, or slot, like this New Day brush. That goes over the hole in the shaft, and a small pin like a little nail goes in the hole to hold it there. A retainer to hold the pin in place is held by the nut on the end of the shaft. If your shaft has a hole all the way through it, you can easily install the brush 180º off.

[Paradise Garage]

Hi thanks there is no pin there anymore and no old roller. Seems to have the right cap by looking at it. Ill find a roll pin tomorrow hopefully I will have it running soon. Thanks again for the replies

[Poppie]

Robert,
Don't use a roll pin as you will not be able to get it out when you want to service the timer assembly when needed , just fashion up a rivet or nail and slide the retainer sleeve on then securing nut. ....n

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Please show a picture of the timer itself.

[Kerry]

Looks to me that you use a Ford timer casing, just replacing the roller, correct?

[Paradise Garage]

Pic of timer. Yes using a ford timer just replacing it to a brush cause that’s what I had

[Mark Nunn]

Robert, that timer housing needs a roller, not a brush.

My mistake. I was looking at the photo that Steve Jelf posted. I have a Tiger timer but have never seen a brush for it. I have a roller.

[RajoRacer]

That is an era "accessory" brush that will work with the timer pictured - notice the curvature of the brush - the timer appears to be a "Tiger" accessory commutator.

[Steve Jelf]

If that Tiger is as rusty as it looks in the picture I would derust it, paint the outside, and clean the inside thoroughly. Ideally it would be turned in a lathe to make a perfectly smooth path for the brush. Google Tiger Model T timer for previous forum discussions.

[Moxie26]

Hand Crank the engine over one half to one turn, and you may find the hole in the camshaft to put that retaining pin to hold your brush along with a cap and nut that goes to secure.

[Paradise Garage]

Thanks I got it all geared up. I cleaned up the cap the best I could it doesn’t look too awful where the brush tracks so hopefully it will work good enough. My radiator should be back this week so I am looking foreword to taking it for its first drive in 70+ years

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Thanks I got it all geared up. I cleaned up the cap the best I could it doesn’t look too awful where the brush tracks so hopefully it will work good enough. My radiator should be back this week so I am looking foreword to taking it for its first drive in 70+ years

PLEASE, double check your timing if you use that accessory brush! Many accessory timers or timer parts require different timing adjustments than the standard Ford ones.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Robert

It was good to meet you the other day when the three T types dropped by. I'm the one that tried testing out your old coils.

Before you go much further I would recommend coming down the road to Middleton later this week when our PreWar Car tour is in town for our weekend tour. Many of us will be showing up Thursday evening with more coming for Friday and Saturday. At least 4 Ts of various years are expected in Thursday evening and we can show you a bit more about them.

The timer "roller" that you have is not the right one for your timer and may cause more trouble than help. I can try to remember to put a used roller timer or two in the spares box and bring it along for you.

Also, until your coils have the condenser and points replaced its very unlikely you will get far with starting the engine unless you find another better set. All the coils that we tested that day showed bad condensers and none would spark when tested on an ECCT tester. Only the windings tested OK marking the coils to be rebuildable.

Come down and meet us an our Ts and other PreWar cars this weekend. Then if you are interested we can get you into our local T network that may help you with your T.

In the meantime, good luck with your T project.

Drive Safe

Jeff

[speedytinc]

That is an era "accessory" brush that will work with the timer pictured - notice the curvature of the brush - the timer appears to be a "Tiger" accessory commutator.

To replace the more troublesome roller type.
Ford tried a brush type roller replacement for a time.
Nothing wrong with your accessory brush, but, as mentioned, re-check your timing.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Getting really tired of this AI crap! When is heck is the webmaster gonna do something to filter out these bogus accounts?!

[TWrenn]

Get used to it Jerry... it's here to stay and gonna get worse. I've posted that concern months ago too.

[Steve Jelf]

We can ignore them, or satirize them, or gripe to the admins, but I'm afraid Tim is right. So far they are ridiculously obvious, but it may not be long before they become relevant, cogent, and coherent. I've reported both of these. We'll see how long they stay.

[Paradise Garage]

If needed, adjust the ignition timing by slightly rotating the distributor (if applicable) to align the marks correctly. Retighten the distributor, recheck the timing, and turn off the engine. Refer to your car's manual for specific instructions. If unsure, seek help from a mechanic or experienced individual to ensure accurate adjustments.


continue...

What do I do if there is no timing marks?

[Paradise Garage]

Do u think it can write back?

[aDave]

Of course it can....someday it will rule the world:

Default (GPT-3.5)

User
To adjust timing on an automobile, one must align timing marks What doi I do if there are ni marks on the gears?
ChatGPT
If your automobile's timing gears do not have marks, it can complicate the process of adjusting the timing. However, there are a few steps you can take to address this situation:

Consult the Manual: Check your vehicle's repair manual or service documentation. It might provide alternative methods or information on how to align the timing without marks. If you don't have a manual, you might be able to find one online or at an auto parts store.

Visual Inspection: Even if there are no official timing marks, you can sometimes find natural wear patterns or other indicators on the gears that suggest their proper alignment. Examine the gears closely for any signs of wear, notches, or unique features that could serve as reference points.

Mechanical Knowledge: If you have a good understanding of engine mechanics and the relationship between the components, you might be able to use your knowledge to estimate the correct timing alignment based on the positions of other related parts.

Consult a Professional: If you're unsure about how to proceed, it's best to seek the assistance of a professional mechanic. They have experience and knowledge to handle such situations and can provide accurate guidance.

Timing Light: While not applicable to all types of engines, some engines allow you to adjust the timing using a timing light, which measures ignition timing. You might be able to experiment with adjustments while observing the timing light readings to find the optimal setting.

Manufacturer or Expert Advice: Reach out to the vehicle's manufacturer or an automotive expert for guidance. They might have insights or suggestions for aligning the timing in the absence of marks.

Remember, adjusting timing without proper marks can be tricky and could potentially lead to engine damage if done incorrectly. It's generally best to proceed cautiously and seek professional assistance if you're uncertain."

[Moxie26]

Good morning Paradise garage..... response from " Ma " has been considered a spam response,.. and sounds like artificial intelligence is on the attack.,.. it's been suggested to ignore

[Paradise Garage]

Don’t you want to see what happens if you talk to it? Just a little bit?

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Robert

Just a follow up reminder that I would recommend that you come and visit us this week in Middleton with our Ts.

There will be a few of the local "experts" there and I think we can help answer many of your questions and help to filter out some of the "spam" responses that have shown up here.

As for setting timing. Yes its very important both for getting is running and for safety. But first you need to reconnect the linkage back to the steering column or make up a temporary timing linkage to hold the timer in position and to also be able to adjust the timing when the engine is running. And to set the time well its best to remove the #1 spark plug and use something to indicate the piston position then turn the timer to get the #1 coil to fire at the right time. And to this you also need the wiring installed from the timer to the coil box, a battery and working coils. Otherwise you can quickly end up just chasing your tail working on the engine.

I sent you a PM (personal message) with my contact info if you check your member profile for personal messages you should be able to find it.

Hope to see you this weekend.

Jeff

[TWrenn]

Hi Robert

Just a follow up reminder that I would recommend that you come and visit us this week in Middleton with our Ts.

There will be a few of the local "experts" there and I think we can help answer many of your questions and help to filter out some of the "spam" responses that have shown up here.

As for setting timing. Yes its very important both for getting is running and for safety. But first you need to reconnect the linkage back to the steering column or make up a temporary timing linkage to hold the timer in position and to also be able to adjust the timing when the engine is running. And to set the time well its best to remove the #1 spark plug and use something to indicate the piston position then turn the timer to get the #1 coil to fire at the right time. And to this you also need the wiring installed from the timer to the coil box, a battery and working coils. Otherwise you can quickly end up just chasing your tail working on the engine.

I sent you a PM (personal message) with my contact info if you check your member profile for personal messages you should be able to find it.

Hope to see you this weekend.

Jeff

The so-called "9:30-3:30" crank pin method works extremely well once you have the #1 piston at least up on compression, there's been lots of discussion on it in other threads, PM me and I can send you more exact details, maybe even PDF you John Regan's tutorial he sent me years ago on the subject if you give me your email address. I got my '13 for example so it often free starts "cold" with no priming and very easily all the other times with this method. It works.

Also, your timer just MAY be able to be "reworked" using what I consider the best brush timer on earth, the "infamous" TW carbon brush timer. Again, I can walk you through it once I hear from you.

[Steve Jelf]

Setting ignition timing is important. Fortunately it's also easy. Here's how:
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

[TWrenn]

Setting ignition timing is important. Fortunately it's also easy. Here's how:
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

Thanks Steve...thats the method I was talking about and yes sure is easy and really spot on. 'Nuff with this "sticking things in the cylinder " to find position etc. It just ain't necessary with this.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

A clarification of my earlier comments about "hooking up" the timer linkage as part of setting the timing. As others have noted, yes it does help to un-hook it when setting the timing.

However, having seen his T, my comment is more along the lines of before setting the timing, one needs to find and install an linkage from the steering column to the timer first. Then after you have the linkage, it can be disconnected for setting the timer. However if a portion of the linkage is missing, then the various proceedures will not work. For example, all the proceedures mentioned require a charged battery, good wiring and working coils to be able to set the timing.

The day that we visited his garage, the spark and throttle linkages were still missing from the car along with some of the wiring and other bits that need to be on the engine before it will be ready to set up the timing and then try starting the engine.

Rob, come and visit us in Middleton this weekend. Its only 10 miles down the road from your garage.

Drive Safe
Jeff

[Paradise Garage]

Hi Jeff I plan on being there this weekend. I have 4 known good coils as well. I have a new battery and some other things but have yet to wire it all up. I have been having some issues with the county fire inspector at so that’s been taking up my play time with the model t and my funds to fix it. Looking foreword to being there. Would u happen to know anyone with any good demountable style rims for sale. I have bought 4 hood wooden wheels but don’t have the rims to go on them

[Paradise Garage]

I am a little sad that AI didn’t answer me lol

[aDave]

It did, George.
On August 9th, at 7:30, I asked it for you with this question:

"To adjust timing on an automobile, one must align timing marks What doi I do if there are ni marks on the gears?"

ChatGPT answered the question with the following words:

"If your automobile's timing gears do not have marks, it can complicate the process of adjusting the timing. However, there are a few steps you can take to address this situation:

Consult the Manual: Check your vehicle's repair manual or service documentation. It might provide alternative methods or information on how to align the timing without marks. If you don't have a manual, you might be able to find one online or at an auto parts store.

Visual Inspection: Even if there are no official timing marks, you can sometimes find natural wear patterns or other indicators on the gears that suggest their proper alignment. Examine the gears closely for any signs of wear, notches, or unique features that could serve as reference points.

Mechanical Knowledge: If you have a good understanding of engine mechanics and the relationship between the components, you might be able to use your knowledge to estimate the correct timing alignment based on the positions of other related parts.

Consult a Professional: If you're unsure about how to proceed, it's best to seek the assistance of a professional mechanic. They have experience and knowledge to handle such situations and can provide accurate guidance.

Timing Light: While not applicable to all types of engines, some engines allow you to adjust the timing using a timing light, which measures ignition timing. You might be able to experiment with adjustments while observing the timing light readings to find the optimal setting.

Manufacturer or Expert Advice: Reach out to the vehicle's manufacturer or an automotive expert for guidance. They might have insights or suggestions for aligning the timing in the absence of marks.

Remember, adjusting timing without proper marks can be tricky and could potentially lead to engine damage if done incorrectly. It's generally best to proceed cautiously and seek professional assistance if you're uncertain."

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Rob

Looking forward to seeing you and showing you our Ts.

Good rims are hard to find in our neighbourhood. They are notorious for rusting to sharp edges that cut tires.

By the way, I did dig out and put together a Holley NH carb that you might find of interest.

Drive Safe
Jeff

[Steve Jelf]

...all the proceedures mentioned require a charged battery, good wiring and working coils to be able to set the timing.The day that we visited his garage, the spark and throttle linkages were still missing from the car along with some of the wiring and other bits that need to be on the engine before it will be ready to set up the timing and then try starting the engine.

Yes, it's best to set the timing after all the pertinent pasts are in place.

[Paradise Garage]

...all the proceedures mentioned require a charged battery, good wiring and working coils to be able to set the timing.The day that we visited his garage, the spark and throttle linkages were still missing from the car along with some of the wiring and other bits that need to be on the engine before it will be ready to set up the timing and then try starting the engine.

Yes, it's best to set the timing after all the pertinent pasts are in place.

Hey now. 50% is a pass in high school I shouldn’t need all of the parts as long as I have half it should be ok….