Ideas?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
kgibbo
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:54 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Gibbons
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Colorado Springs

Ideas?

Post by kgibbo » Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:47 pm

Reassembled a non-running 1925 engine. Rebuilt coil box, new wiring harness, rebuilt carburetor… Starts right up, idles great…runs in low gear and high on level. After heated up completely loses power - stalls trying to pull in low gear. I have to let it cool off to even start it again? Any ideas where to begin?


Norman Kling
Posts: 4634
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Ideas?

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:02 pm

Have you checked carburetor needle valve setting? It could be running rich. Also, did you put in new pistons or rings? it could be tight and needs to be broken in .
Norm

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 5174
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Ideas?

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:02 pm

Sounds as though the pistons are getting "tight" !


Topic author
kgibbo
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:54 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Gibbons
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Ideas?

Post by kgibbo » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:16 pm

Someone before me had installed what looked like new pistons. 0.030 over…good compression. Do I continue running on level to “break them in”? Or is there a process for doing this?


tdump
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT. T express pickup,speedster project.
Location: North Carolina

Re: Ideas?

Post by tdump » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:18 pm

Use 1 of those cameras that can sneak in the spark plug hole and look for scaring on the cylinder walls, my pickup engine did the same thing and it had those 'egg" pistons in it and someone had not bored it out loose enough for them to expand,makes a mess of the engine.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


speedytinc
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Ideas?

Post by speedytinc » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:43 pm

Well, test/confirm your tight pistol theory. When it dies after getting hot, can you crank the motor over?
(Not to say your bores are not too small. The instructions with new pistons suggest .002" fit. Thats way too tight. )
If so, it could be as simple as being too lean. You can also test this by pulling on some choke as it wants to quit.
Nest question would be are you running too retard?


Norman Kling
Posts: 4634
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Ideas?

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:33 pm

Even an engine with the proper clearances can seize up if it gets too hot. If it still turns over with the crank, when hot, it is not too hot. Steam would indicate it is too hot.
Norm


Kerry
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: van Ekeren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
Location: Rosedale Vic Australia

Re: Ideas?

Post by Kerry » Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:17 pm

A big problem of re-builds dating back into the pre 90's was the pistons did not have oil holes for the wrist pins and slowly locking up when hot.


speedytinc
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Ideas?

Post by speedytinc » Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:07 pm

Kerry wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:17 pm
A big problem of re-builds dating back into the pre 90's was the pistons did not have oil holes for the wrist pins and slowly locking up when hot.
True.
The wrist pin fit is typically too tight also, even in todays new pistons.
The wrist pin should easily fall thru when the piston is turned in its side.


Topic author
kgibbo
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:54 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Gibbons
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Ideas?

Post by kgibbo » Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:01 am

Will “tight” pistons and/or wrist pins break in with time and patience? Is there a process I should follow? Or are these reasons to pull an engine and work on internally immediately?


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Ideas?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:57 am

First, confirm what the problem is. If the engine gets stiff when warmed up, you may have a fit issue. Confirm as discussed above. You could have brake or transmission band issues. Both the spark timing and the carburetor mixture can be and should be adjusted on the go for best performance. It might be helpful to add 6 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to a full tank of gasoline. What kind of oil do you have in the engine? Model Ts do NOT like thick oil. Use a multi-grade oil like 5W30 or 10W30. If the engine proves to be tight when warmed up, you can try starting and running the car for 5 to 10 minutes, then stop and let it cool down for 10 to 15 minutes, then do it again. Do this a dozen times or more. Each time the engine is warmed up and stopped, check for excess friction by using the crank. Don't confuse friction with compression. Be sure the transmission bands are not too tight and that the parking brakes are not too tight. Note that the Model T does not have an actual neutral. Tight bands or clutch will drag any time the rear wheels are on the ground.


speedytinc
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Ideas?

Post by speedytinc » Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:01 pm

kgibbo wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:01 am
Will “tight” pistons and/or wrist pins break in with time and patience? Is there a process I should follow? Or are these reasons to pull an engine and work on internally immediately?
No.
Tight pistons will gall, depositing aluminum in the bores. There is a maybe on breaking them in.
Tight wrist pins are more likely to seize & do serious damage. Not to mention the strain added to the crank.
If either are the actual problem, the head comes off & the pistons removed.
Do the diagnostics first to be sure & not waste your time.
Pull the dipper cover & look in from the bottom side before pulling the head.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic