OT but not really. Scammers are getting very bold...

[AdminJeff]

This is a bit OT, but it's related to Model T's and you'll enjoy the story. And it might help you avoid scams when you sell your T parts.

So I was contacted by a Wolfgang Mischke wanting to buy several Model T Voltage Regulators. No red flags, I get LOTS of inquiries, sometimes from distributors, sometimes foreign countries like New Zealand, Japan, UK, etc. I'm selling a dozen of them to a real Australian distributor.

But this was different. Wolfgang wanted 5 voltage regulators and wanted to pay by check. OK, Fine. But it all sounded fishy.

Ok, so I know I'm about to be scammed. Knowing this, I'm going to waste as much of this a..holes time as I possibly can. Yesterday the check arrived. A $2,000 check. For 5 $98 regulators.
.

.

The check arrived in a USPS pkg,
.

The check looked totally legitimate, Hologram intact, heat sensitive logo disappears when heat is applied. And the Bank is real and so are the Doctors named on the check.

Not that I needed any confirmation, a quick Google search found the Dr's office in MD and a call confirmed their bank account had been compromised.

Tip off's on why this is a SCAM:
- never accept a check for MORE than the cost of your goods
- if it sounds too good to be true, IT IS!
- Broken english in emails is always a tipoff
- Any time an "Agent" needs to be involved is a SCAM

So, I just emailed "Wolfgang" and told him I deposited the check. as soon as his "agent" tries to contact me, I'll introduce him to my friend from the FBI...

FBI.jpg (34.58 KiB) Viewed 5289 times

These guys are getting pretty darn crafty. The check looks totally legit.
BUYER BEWARE!!!

[TWrenn]

Yep Jeff! This happens all the time. Probly almost 10 years ago I sold a friend's sailboat for him and also received a VERY authentinc looking cashiers check for $5K , he was only asking $3K for the dang thing in the first place. We just tossed it in the trash. The worst thing lately is ATM card readers that have skimmers and also at gas pumps. And don't even try depositing a large check at your bank anymore but what they freeze your account cause THEY think it's fraud. The news is full of these horror stories. It's becoming a wild west world out there.

[tvw]

Last year I received a similar check over the asking amount for a vehicle sale, check was in excess of 30k. Took it in to my local bank, told them I thought it was fishy but they deposited it anyway, said 3 days to clear. Went back in after 3 days they said yeah it's good, you can release the car. Had my wife call and talk to a different bank employee they said the same thing. Checking the account status on line showed the money in my account. Knew it was a scam and did the same thing you did, called the business that the check was from, their account had been hacked. Over a week later the bank took the money out of my account without saying a word! Then their fraud department called me asking a bunch of questions, like I was the scammer! We had considerable deposits in that bank, which we did business with for many years, not anymore!!

[DLodge]

Because I made my living for about 25 years translating Dutch documents into English, I am fairly good (not perfect, but fairly good) at recognizing English written by a non-native speaker. It may look okay, but it doesn't quite feel okay. I have forwarded a lot of them (with all headers) to the fraud departments at various banks. Yes, scammers are persistent.

[Bryant]

Jeff
What exactly is the scam? Are they trying to get your account info from the check being deposited of something?
Bryant

[DanTreace]

Jeff
What exactly is the scam? Are they trying to get your account info from the check being deposited of something?
Bryant

Bryant

Scammer’s after the ‘excess’ funds you are supposed to put in your bank. By Law all banks must clear immediately (2-3day) all or majority of check deposits , so scammers know you think you have funds to follow the scammer’s next instructions.

“Deposit the check in your account, withdraw the $120 for the merchandise (non-specific) and the shipping cost, plus an extra $200 for the “service” you keep, and return the the balance in the form of a “Money Order” Apple Gift card, or other valid transfer “ to their address.

But a week or two the banking clearing system will find the check is “bad” and will want immediate repayment. Scammer wins…..You lose

[George House]

I’ve advertised very moderately here on the MTFCA Classifieds and every response I’ve received were bonafide interested T hobbiests. However, every respondent of my FS ads on the HCCA website are scammers with every method of operation as mentioned above.

[AdminJeff]

Crickets after I sent this reply

[1925 Touring]

Thats scary more than anything...

[Ron Patterson]

Stolen check, sold on line, washed and used to pay for goods and servi ces and the Dr's bank account will be debited.

[YellowTRacer]

Just my contribution and experience. On occasion I help a friend sell his car. My latest is a 1926 Chevrolet Touring. price is $22,000. It's a magnet for scammers. My first ad produced a bank check for the asking price, even though my ad stated "or offer". Check was no good and as soon as I responded to the buyer via email that it was no good I never heard from him again. My recent ad with AACA has produced 2 Checks and one on the way. First was very official Cashiers check for $25,000.00 (the extra is to pay the shipper when he comes to pick the car up). The third one is for $39,980.00 again very official looking. Fourth one is on it's way. I began to write an email to the second guy before he actually sent his check, stating " I'm a very knowledgeable seller etc etc." then changed my mind. I thought, let them go through the motions/effort and cost of shipping. That way at least it cost them something and I can just respond "My bank wouldn't accept your check" and I'll never hear from them again. We have a very corrupt society. Our laws are way to weak and not seriously enforced.
Ed aka #4

[Ron Patterson]

Here is a link to a recent NYT article on this subject.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/busi ... Position=2
The articel is long on how theives steal checks, but, understandably, no so much on how they "wash" the payee, amount and replace it with new information leaving the bank routing number, account ond signature.Guess who's bank account gets charged?
Starting last year i quit writing any checks using my banks EFT paymnt system which is free. Europe has been this way for over 20 years.
Ron Patterson

[Bryant]

Jeff
What exactly is the scam? Are they trying to get your account info from the check being deposited of something?
Bryant

Bryant

Scammer’s after the ‘excess’ funds you are supposed to put in your bank. By Law all banks must clear immediately (2-3day) all or majority of check deposits , so scammers know you think you have funds to follow the scammer’s next instructions.

“Deposit the check in your account, withdraw the $120 for the merchandise (non-specific) and the shipping cost, plus an extra $200 for the “service” you keep, and return the the balance in the form of a “Money Order” Apple Gift card, or other valid transfer “ to their address.

But a week or two the banking clearing system will find the check is “bad” and will want immediate repayment. Scammer wins…..You lose

I see what your saying.
What would happen if you just cashed the check instead of depositing it?
Bryant

[DanTreace]

[/quote]
I see what your saying.
What would happen if you just cashed the check instead of depositing it?
Bryant
[/quote]

If you “cashed” it, like your endorsement on it, to another or at a financial institution, you are guilty of passing a bad check….and would be held in lawful consequence.

[Bryant]

Thanks Iam learning here. For the record I would not cash a check that was for more than the selling price. I think I get it now
Bryant

[signsup]

There are several scams in play here. The original scammer sends you a few emails and then a cake cashiers check shows up and you are pressured into depositing it quickly and some sort of immediate payment like Vendo, Zell, gift cards, etc for the excess. But...where do you think these fake cashiers checks come from?
They have another scam going posting ads for people working from home to stuff envelopes. They provide the check paper with the fake watermarks and provide addresses to this unsuspecting "mule" to print checks and post them usually with USPS priority mail and then they will be paid for their expenses and a very attractive salary. After about two to three weeks with this mule going hundreds into debt and never getting paid, the scammer finds another mule to provide this service.
This is one of the reasons why your initial scammer tells you he lives in FL but the check comes from NC and when it arrives, it has a MI return addrss.
Or, if the actual scammer is mailing out checks, he is using a stolen credit card to pay for the overnight check mailing.

Their parents must be proud. I, too, usually string them along as far as I can to waste as much of their time and money, but they don't care. I even had one scammer try to scam me twice on the same $300 car part. Same fake check to the same address and fake name I provide and they never caught on that they wasted their time the first time.

[AdminJeff]

Here is a link to a recent NYT article on this subject.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/busi ... Position=2
The articel is long on how theives steal checks, but, understandably, no so much on how they "wash" the payee, amount and replace it with new information leaving the bank routing number, account ond signature.Guess who's bank account gets charged?
Starting last year i quit writing any checks using my banks EFT paymnt system which is free. Europe has been this way for over 20 years.
Ron Patterson

Its really crazy just how much time these scammmers put into this. Now that I'm retired, and I have a ton of time and internet skills, I make it a sport to string these guys along as long as possible. I mean I've had this guy on a string for almost 2 weeks now! I had one telemarketing guy on the phone w/ me for over 2 1/2 hours as I played recordings of a car driving and me pretending to go into BestBuy to get him 4 "gift cards" with $1000 on each of them just so I could protect my credit. He was pissed off. Whatever. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I used to run a 50 person telemarking company (my wife is now CEO) so I know ALL the tricks...

[Rata Road]

That is why here in NZ (and many other countries I guess) they phased out checks many years ago, they are no longer legal tender.
Cash is still used but not that much, I would say over 90% is electronic transactions.

[Bryant]

So what are the period correct ways to pay for Model T parts?
Bryant

[signsup]

It really is turning into a leap of faith. And, not really on the scam subject, but related, wait till you read the horror stories about civil forfeiture. Guys driving down to pick up a car they are buying and carrying $20k in cash with them for the deal. Get pulled over by police for some bogus traffic stop, get searched under some bogus issue and confiscate the cash and you have to sue them for years to get your money back.

So, yes..it really is a leap of faith. I have had some guys on other forums post about a potential seller to have someone verify that the guy is legit. Overseas deals are a little more common in some other hobbies, the Model T is dominated in the US for obvious reasons. But, it's fingers crossed and buyer beware.

Wonder if there are escrow companies out there that would act as middle men to collect funds and only release them upon delivery or acceptance of the item. Protects both sides of the transaction. But, then, again, some guys would bitch about a rust spot and hold up the entire thing...

[John Codman]

Last year I received a similar check over the asking amount for a vehicle sale, check was in excess of 30k. Took it in to my local bank, told them I thought it was fishy but they deposited it anyway, said 3 days to clear. Went back in after 3 days they said yeah it's good, you can release the car. Had my wife call and talk to a different bank employee they said the same thing. Checking the account status on line showed the money in my account. Knew it was a scam and did the same thing you did, called the business that the check was from, their account had been hacked. Over a week later the bank took the money out of my account without saying a word! Then their fraud department called me asking a bunch of questions, like I was the scammer! We had considerable deposits in that bank, which we did business with for many years, not anymore!!

The only reason that I still do business with Warren Buffet's bank is because they put all hands on deck to stop me from being scammed. Thankfully, they succeeded.

[Cap]

I also Bank with Warrens Bank.. The Devil knows all the Tricks.. And he plays for keeps...


I really like the Text Alerts.. ANYTHING happens on my Accounts, I get a Text.. Even at 2 in the Morning

Cap