Lost My Mind - Bought a Flanders 20 (Model T Competitor)

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:24 pm

The seat cushion is complete and installed. It's so tall that it obscures a lot of the detail on the back and side panels.

I can't say enough good things about the quality and fitment of the custom upholstery kit that Classtique made using my originals as patterns. Thank you Elizabeth and Mike!

All that is left is to get the refurbished coil box back from R.V. Anderson, complete the wiring, then change all the fluids and prep for first start up.

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:25 pm

Just a small accomplishment today - I replaced the later Studebaker cylinder priming cups with more correct EMF style brass priming cups. Before and after.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:02 am

Ahhh, real Corinthian lather....

Post by **CudaMan** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:06 pm

I decided to do a trial fit of the windshield support board today. The previous owner had removed the windshield and was using the bracing rods to mount the speedometer up from the floor boards! At least that way they stayed with the car!

I wonder if there was originally a rubber seal strip between the bottom of the board and the top of the cowl. The board came with all of its orginal brackets, but has an odd mix of slotted, hex, and square fasteners. I need to do more research to figure out if what I have on it is correct.

The windshield is ready, but I don't want to mount it now because it would be a nuisance during the final dash wiring efforts.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:20 pm

Looks like fun Mark. Is the one on Bonhams site the same as yours. I has some shots showing those fasteners and may be correct.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25839/lot/84/
Thanks again.
Rich

Post by **CudaMan** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:11 pm

Yes, that is helpful, thanks Richard. It looks like the few hex head bolts on mine have to be replaced with round head slotted. I will also replace the hex nuts with square.

That car has a shorter windshield support board than mine - note that its side braces go to the top hole in the side of the board. Mine go to the bottom hole. Also, the center windshield bracket on that car only has two bolts, whereas mine is tall enough to use three.

One other difference - all of the pictures of Flanders cars that I have seen have straight support rods that go up to the windshield pivots. However, my windshield support rods have a stylish curve at the bottom. The curve has to face the direction shown. If I turn it the other way, it interferes with the opening of the door. Maybe a late 1912 change?

Post by **CudaMan** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:36 pm

Well, so much for waiting! I couldn't resist installing the windshield today. I need to find a rear view mirror that clamps to the windshield frame so that I don't have to drill any holes.

For those of you that also have RH drive cars, what do you use for a side mirror, if any? If you have one, which side do you put it on?

Post by **CudaMan** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:14 pm

After getting some advice on brass annealing from Richard Eagle, I was able to twist my side mirror arm 45 degrees so that it would function when mounted on the lower part of the windshield frame pivot. Thanks Richard!

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:19 pm

You didn't waste any time. It's already polished. That looks great. I'm glad it didn't break.
Rich

Post by **Mopar_man** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:41 pm

Wow! That's looking nice.

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:40 pm

I decided that I wanted a small tool box for one of the running boards, so I put the word out and a forum member sent me a spare tool/battery box. Unfortunately, the box was a little too tall to allow the door to pass over it, so I ended up chopping two inches off of the height of the box. I also welded up a crack in the lid, then slathered on JB weld for a filler.

Tomorrow I'll sand the JB weld filler, then prime and paint the box, either gloss black, or maroon to match the color of the car.

Post by **CudaMan** » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:08 pm

I decided to paint the box gloss black to provide some contrast with the body color. I may add some cream pinstriping later. Right now it is just set on the running board, I need to find a way to attach it without drilling more holes in the running board than it already has.

I think this small box fits the proportions of the short running board better than a standard size box would have. Plus it leaves a section of the running board open for stepping in and out.

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:45 pm

Hey Mark,
How about some really strong Neodimium magnets, they are very strong indeed and no holes to drill...
(Don't get your fingers caught between two magnets, don't ask )

Post by **CudaMan** » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Interesting idea, but then how would I get the tools out of the tool box, wouldn't they be stuck too?

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:25 am

Well at least they don't rattle around on bad roads

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:52 pm

Minor update - Looking at period pictures and pictures of other restored Flanders 20s, I determined that my car had stylish, but incorrect side lamp brackets. Luckily, Mark at Model T Haven had a pair of the correct cast bronze brackets listed in his Ebay store, so I bought and installed them using correct looking 5/16-18 slotted oval head machine screws made of silicon bronze.

I'll start preparing the car for its first start in earnest once I have the rebuilt coil box back from R.V. Anderson.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:35 am

Nice touch! The car must be pleased to have a caretaker that cares enough to make even little things right.

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:03 am

Glad to see an update! I was starting to wonder because nothing had been posted in a while.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am

It is great to see details of the Flanders and note the similarities and differences between it and Fords as well as other cars. They are nice additions to the enjoyment of the hobby.
Thanks
Rich

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:51 pm

I am glad to see an update on the Flanders and I am hoping you will post a video of you driving it down the street when you have it completed. It is a beautiful car keep the pictures coming.

Denny

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:32 pm

I was able to pick up my rebuilt coil box from R.V. Anderson while I was at Hershey. I asked him not to refinish the outside so that the patina would match the rest of the car. The insides are completely redone with modern parts, of course. I mounted it temporarily to check the fit. I will mount it permanently once I get the 1/4-20 brass fillister head screws, washers, and nuts. Then I'll be able to trim the wiring to length, fit the end terminals, and connect everything up.

I also went through the NOS Flanders carburetor miracle find that I got at Hershey. Disassembly and checks confirm that this thing has literally never been on a car! All of the moving parts were stuck from decades of shelf storage, but soaking them with Mopar "manifold heat control solvent" freed them right up.

Now I have some work to do patching the extra holes in the firewall that the car has accumulated over the years.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:30 am

Patching holes in old wood.
For many years, I have kept scraps of veneer that I salvaged from destroyed antique furniture. Plug the hole a bit shallow with a piece of dowel. Then carefully cut a circle (or oblong or?) to fit and match the existing grain in the firewall (or?). Sand, carefully stain to match. A bit tricky to get just right, but with a bit of luck the hole can be very hard to see.

Thank you for the update! Sure do like what you are doing with that fine little roadster.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:29 pm

Here's one way of mounting a running board tool box without drilling any holes.

These brackets are made of 1" channel with old inner tube wrapped around them for padding.

Here's the tool box lying on its back so you can see the brackets bolted to the bottom. With this setup you can easily move the box from one car to another.

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:39 pm

Here is my first attempt at patching the firewall holes. I need more practice! Oh well, at least it looks better than it did with the holes, IMO.

The coil box is wired and the new carburetor is installed. I removed the drain plugs on the transmission and rear axle and they were both empty. I put 1.5 quarts of 600W in each, so far no leaks. I also put 600W in the steering box, but it all leaked out. The EMF guys told me the magic lube for the steering box is "John Deere Corn Grease", it lubes well but stays in place and doesn't leak out. I bought a tube and will give it a try. I'm also using neat's foot oil on the leather cone clutch to soften it up.

I hope to go for a first start in a week or two. I'll have the rear end on jack stands so that I can exercise the clutch and transmission without the car taking off on me.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:04 am

I KNOW you know this, but I always feel compelled to say, "Be certain it is well supported and securely blocked!"
Cars running and shaking up on stands scare the ##!! out of me! I have over the years heard a few too many times of cars shaking their way off and do not want to hear of another!

Many years ago, I was helping a very good friend do some work on his model A. He needed a special tool that the club owned, and made the calls to find who had it and borrow it. We jumped in his modern car and drove over to the other fellow's home, parked out front and we walked up to the garage where the other fellow was working under his modern car. The guy was clear under his car, up on jacks with no wheels on the back. He was yanking and pulling trying to get something to move. Just as we got near, the car began to slip off the jacks! I grabbed one of the wheels leaning against the truck next to his car and threw it under the rear of his car.
I never did really know the other guy, just a fellow hobbyist in a club I didn't belong to. But I still shudder to think what might have happened if my good friend hadn't needed that tool that day.

Post by **CudaMan** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:52 pm

Thanks for the reminder! I do plan to have the rear of the car on jack stands and both front wheels chocked.

Back in my Mopar muscle car days, I was removing the old ball joints from the upper control arms of my 1971 Plymouth GTX. I had the wheels removed and the front of the car on jack stands and was sitting next to the car with my legs extending under the car. The ball joints were really stuck, so I was pulling pretty hard on a 15 inch breaker bar attached to the special ball joint socket (the ball joints are threaded into the upper control arm). As I was pulling, I felt the car shift on the jack stands, so I immediately backed away and got my legs out from under the car. Luckily, the car didn't move enough to fall off the jack stands, but it sure got my attention!

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:04 am

It is something I think I have mentioned on this forum at least a dozen times over the years. Although I rarely tell that particular story. Someone on another forum a couple months ago said something that reminded me of that incident. Just thinking about it can sill send shivers down my spine.
I was taught very early to securely block anything you intend to climb under and work on. And I almost always do so! I have numerous heavy wooden blocks I use as well as good old jack stands. I never liked the look of the modern ratchet catch type, recently recalled by Harbor Freight by the way. I somehow ended up with a couple of those given to me, and I don't think I have used one except as a winter rest off the tires.
The thing about that day that still gets me? Is our timing. Had we arrived two minutes earlier, we would have interrupted the fellow before the car began to slip off. He would have gotten out, gotten the tool, we would have chatted for a few minutes and then driven away. Would he have gone back under and started pulling hard again?
And if we had arrived thirty seconds later, we would have been close enough to see the crash, but not do anything about it! And if we hadn't gone there that day at that time? What would have been the likely result?
I can still see his face, white as a sheet, when he stood up.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:06 am

By the way. I sure do like that Flanders!

Post by **PDGx** » Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:43 am

When you do mount that tool box, leave a gap under it so it can be flushed out, and dried out, or you will naturally get rust between the two parts.

Post by **CudaMan** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:33 pm

Well, I'm now in the first start attempt and troubleshooting phase. A friend came over last week and we put gas in the tank for the first time. The fuel line and shutoff valves worked well, but the carburetor flooded horribly, so we removed it and took it apart to find the problem. Turned out that the float "tickler" protruded too far into the float bowl, so it was keeping the float from rising enough to push the fuel needle onto its seat. Many thanks to Daryl Kemerer for suggesting looking at the tickler! I put a washer under the tickler to space it up, and the carburetor then held fuel like it should.

This week, my friend came over and we tried again. This time, we couldn't get any spark at the plugs, neither on battery nor on magneto. Here is the link to a video of our unsuccessful attempt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jio3pmKnTZQ&t=58s

Now I'm in the process of going over the wiring diagram and checking various components to find the problem. So far the wiring looks good. My coil box was freshly rebuilt and tested by R.V. Anderson, so it should be good. The Splitdorf Model F low tension magneto is an unknown, but supposedly Dragone Motors had the car running (on battery) before they shipped it to me. When running on battery, the car still uses the points and distributor portions of the magneto. I have verified that the points are indeed opening and closing and providing the expected readings at the terminals.

I'll eventually sort out the problem and be ready to make another attempt (if the weather permits).

Post by **CudaMan** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:26 pm

Well, yesterday, the first day of spring 2022, was the day I was able to drive the Flanders for the first time. It went pretty well once I adjusted the carburetor air valve to richen the mixture a bit. I need to seal up a couple of minor fuel drips and adjust the brakes before I go for a longer drive.

Later in the evening, we tried lighting the kerosene lamps and the acetylene headlamps. For some reason, only one of the headlights would light, so I need to do some troubleshooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjKufF8dX8g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mucMA6QsDu4

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:30 pm

Fantastic! Great! Glad it is back on the road.

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:14 pm

Glad to hear you're back on the road. How did it ride? How did it handle? Sure looks nice.

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Mar 22, 2022 6:02 pm

It rode pretty well, thanks for asking!

The car tracks well and the front wheels don't wobble, so the toe-in must be pretty close. When I got the car the front wheels were toed out by almost 1/2 inch, so I had to make a major adjustment when I got the car.

I was worried about the leather cone clutch, but it held well without being too grabby. I did soak it with neat's foot oil when I first got the car, and I do keep the clutch pedal depressed with a board when the car is parked.

The brake pedal went nearly to the floor before the brakes grabbed, so I tightened up the adjusting turnbuckles a bit.

The passenger compartment is pretty cramped, my right leg is right up against the gear shift lever.

I thought the car being RH drive would be an issue, but I didn't even notice it.

The spark and throttle levers are reversed from a Model T (both side-to-side and up-and-down), so that will take some getting used to. Luckily, it has a foot feed (in between the clutch and brake pedals), so I won't be using the hand throttle much. The user manual also says to leave the timing fully advanced when running on magneto, so I won't be messing with the timing lever much either.

I found out why the one headlight wouldn't light - there was an obstruction in the gas elbow at the bottom of the light, I cleared it out with a drill bit.

Because of the mis-adjusted brakes and the shortness of the test drive, I didn't get into third gear, so I don't know how fast the car is yet.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:13 pm

Thanks for sharing the Adventure with us. It's great to know more about the Flanders.
Rich

Post by **CudaMan** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:49 pm

I spent some more time working on the acetylene headlights. I cleared the blockage in the gas feed elbow on the LH light and increased the water drip rate in the acetyene generator from one drop every five seconds to one drop per second. Much better!

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:06 pm

I really like that car. I hope when you get it out this summer that you will take some videos of it running down the road.

Post by **CudaMan** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm

Before lighting the lights yesterday, I did take the Flanders out for a bit longer drive. Please pardon my poor shifting skills, I need practice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhH8JSoFb_k&t=31s

1st gear is so low that I think I can start off in 2nd most of the time. If I'm in 1st and try to shift into 2nd, I have to slow down nearly to a stop to engage 2nd gear. I may be letting the engine RPM drop too much before selecting 2nd.

Shifting from 2nd to 3rd on the fly is very smooth.

I had it up to 30 mph in a short burst. It pulls hills well in 3rd. I had heard rumors that it would be faster than a Model T, but after this drive that seems doubtful. I did verify that I can get full throttle on the carb with both the foot feed and the hand throttle. No big deal, 20-30 mph is fine.

The steering box seems too tight, so I'm going to loosen the adjusting nut in small increments to see if I can free it up without introducing a bunch of slop.

The service brake linings appear to be contaminated with rear axle grease, so I need to remove and clean them at a minimum. If I can figure out how to get the brake bands off and they don't clean up, I may reline them with "Green Gripper" woven linings for more braking power.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:38 pm

That was absolutely delightful.
Thanks
Rich

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:34 pm

Thanks for posting the video. It looks like a fun car to ride in.

Post by **Tadpole** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:24 pm

Mr. Strange, I thought you would enjoy these photographs. A Flanders 20 making the trip from Seattle to Hazelton B.C., the first motorcar to do so. (Photos taken from the Library of Philadelphia Archive)

Post by **CudaMan** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:18 pm

Thanks!

Post by **CudaMan** » Sat May 28, 2022 10:48 am

I've been reading with interest Larry Smith's thread on finding a modern paint color close to the very dark blue that Ford used in 1913. Others mentioned that dark blue was a popular color at the time for several makes.

According to the original brochure from EMF, the color of my 1912 Flanders fore-door runabout should be;

Body - dark blue
Hood - black
Fenders - black
Chassis & running gear - cream

Attached is a picture of Daryl and Kathy Kemerer's car, which is mostly faithful to the brochure (he chose to paint his chassis black instead of cream, the brochure doesn't go into that level of detail). I don't know if the blue that Daryl chose is dark enough to match the original or not.

I have no current plans to repaint my car. I finished re-lining the service brakes with "green gripper" linings and am in the process of taking the car on short drives to "tune in" the brake band adjustment. So far, I would say that the car pulls hills well, but is not quite as fast as my 1924 Model T. It's engine is 20 cubic inches smaller displacement than the Model T, but is rated by the factory at the same 20 horsepower.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Sat May 28, 2022 12:31 pm

I was looking at this thread again the other day. It is pretty great.
In looking at a lot of old blue cars, some with original paint, there is a lot of variety. Very few were as dark as what I hear about the '13 Ts. My Model A Andalusite Blue was so dark it had to be good light to see it was blue. I don't see the teens cars being that dark. It is charming on later cars with chrome. "Sky" blue it a bit too light for me. Daryl's looks totally believable to me.
It's a tricky subject.
Rich

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:52 pm

I took the Flanders for a successful drive this morning. I wish I had some pictures or footage, but I was alone.

The last time I tried to drive it, it wouldn’t stay running on magneto, so today I decided to see how well it would run with the coil box switch left on battery. At first with the timing retarded it was popping out the exhaust, but It ran fine once I fully advanced the timing. I drove out of the subdivision and over to the nearby college, then went up and down the outer road a couple of times and came home.

With the car idling in the garage after the drive and the timing still fully advanced, I tried switching to magneto again and it died. So, either the magnets in the magneto have lost some of their charge, or the switch on the coil box isn’t making contact in the magneto position.

The car was originally designed with a 6V coil in the box and four 1.5V dry cell telephone batteries wired in series under the seat for starting the car.

When R.V. Anderson rebuilt my coil box, he installed a modern 12V coil in it and recommended that I run the car on a 12V battery all the time. He said the car will run all day on a 12V lawn tractor battery. He was skeptical that the Splitdorf low tension magneto would have enough output to fire the 12V coil and was as surprised as I was when we found that the car would initially run on magneto.

I heard some boiling sounds and some steam was wafting out the radiator overflow pipe after I shut the engine off. It seems like the coolant boils for a few seconds after the water pump stops pumping. I had to add about a quart of water to the radiator after the drive. I can’t tell if it loses coolant while I’m driving. The engine didn’t act like It was overheating (there are no gages in the car).

I’m beginning to think that the base ignition timing is too retarded. I think I’ll check to see when the #1 spark plug fires relative to TDC. It should fire just barely after TDC when the timing lever is fully down (full retard). Perhaps the previous owner set the base timing more retarded than it needs to be.

I made a couple other improvements – I replaced the leaky gas shutoff valve by the carburetor with a more modern ball valve. Not period correct, but it seals much better. I also installed new straps to hold the top’s roll-up rear curtain in the rolled-up position. Two of the three original straps were missing and the one that was left was tattered and hanging by a thread.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:49 pm

Be sure your water pump isn't sucking in air around the shaft seal at higher RPMs. If it is, it can aerate the water and cause bubbles and steam pockets. I've encountered a water pump that would leak air in when the engine was running but leaked very little or not at all when sitting still.

otrcman · Post by **otrcman** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:32 pm

I hsve been following this Flanders thread ever since Mark began posting. Not because I'm a particular fan of Flanders cars, but because it's different, I didn't know much about it, and I was curious over just what the differences were. And I do enjoy seeing ingenuity at work in solving problems.

Along the way I have realized more and more the benefits of owning a simple Model T. Not only does one have the benefits of the vast sources of new and used parts, but also we enjoy the ready availaibility of expertise at our fingertips. For Mark, finding parts and technical assistance is bound to be a far more difficult process.

What Mark is doing with his Flanders is a much more ambitious undertaking.

Mark: Respect ! ! !,

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:37 pm

Thank you everyone for your interest! I have also been posting occasionally in the HCCA and AACA forums. There is a fairly active group of EMF owners (Flanders was made by EMF). They have a website and there are a couple of groups on Facebook. The other EMF folks have been very helpful, especially Daryl Kemmerer. The owner's manual and illustrated parts manual are available in .PDF form on the HCFI website, they have been very helpful, if for nothing else than to show me what all the parts look like so that I can tell what I'm missing.

Last year I went to Hershey with a list of nine items I wanted for the Flanders. Of the nine, I found five of them, including a near-NOS carburetor! The carb had an issue with the float "tickler" being mounted too low and holding the float down all the time, making the carb flood horribly. This issue probably saved it from being run on a car for very long all those years. I also keep a close watch on Ebay.

My Flanders spent much of its time before I got it in museums, so the bushings and steering are still tight. Being in museums also meant that it was empty of fluids when I got it (museums don't like cars that leak).

If someone new to antique cars asked me what should they buy as a first car, I would tell them to get a Model T or Model A Ford, just for parts availability and the size of the support network. I would also tell them to get it running and safe, then drive it for a while before you blow it apart, just to keep the interest level up.

Of course, if you are given or inherit a car, then that's what you start with!

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:37 pm

Here is a link to my Youtube channel. It has videos of my Flanders as well as my Model T and other stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpL9X8 ... Otg/videos

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:17 pm

Thanks for the video link. It's so nice to see and hear that Flanders run. You have to be happy now!

Post by **CudaMan** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:03 pm

I have posted a couple of new videos, accessible via the link a little ways up the thread. I was going crazy the past month or so trying to track down the cause of a misfire / stumble under load, like climbing a hill. I went back and forth between fuel delivery and ignition a few times before I found the culprit - a broken porcelain on the cylinder side of spark plug #3. The plug would fire OK at Idle and on flat ground, but would short out and misfire under load. I replaced the Bethlehem Five Point Plugs with a set of Edison #13s. Just for good measure, I made and installed new plug wires and boots. That fixed the problem, the car is running well again. Now I can begin the process of building confidence in the car all over again.

Post by **Duey_C** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:09 am

A small note from the peanut gallery: That, I believe is an Oakes cooling fan! TMI, Built in Indy.
A single sheet, stamped out, possibly with blade angle formed and then the outer ring rolled.
Oakes: 1910 -1925 then absorbed into Martin-Parry. The truck cab and body bunch. Neat to see.
Excellent automobile.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:17 am

It is so much fun to see this when you post. The contrasts to other cars make life fun. Seeing details is great.
Thanks
Rich

Post by **CudaMan** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:04 pm

Some interesting features of the Flanders engine:

There is no detachable cylinder head. The valves sit under threaded caps in the top of the cylinder casting, pretty much the norm prior to the Model T.

There is no poured Babbitt in the engine. Both the crank and rod bearings use inserts. The rod bearings are split as you would expect, but the crank bearings are full 360 degrees and are inserted around the crank from the front and back.

The crank only has two main bearings, one at the front and one at the rear. There is no middle crank bearing.

Engine oiling is by splash, but the sump only holds 2 quarts. The other 2 quarts are held in a separate reserve tank cast as part of the crankcase. Reserve oil flows only as needed as the level in the crankcase drops below 2 quarts. When the sump level reaches 2 quarts, the oil closes off the feed lines and flow from the reserve tank stops. The reserve tank and feed lines have to hold a perfect vacuum for the system to work properly.

The oil sump drains have standpipes in them so that if you open the drain valves, oil only drains down to the 2 quart level. To change the oil completely, you have to remove the sump drains entirely. After every couple of drives, I drain the sump down to 2 quarts and pour the excess back into the reserve tank.

The valvetrain is exposed, like early T's. Camshaft lift is only 1/4 inch, but the intake and exhaust duration is longer than a Model T.

The car uses a leather cone clutch. The leather has to be treated occasionally with neat's foot oil to keep it supple, the same stuff used on baseball gloves.

Post by **CudaMan** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:27 am

Many thanks to Russ Furstnow, who expertly rebuilt my non-functioning Jones speedometer head and cable and provided a new swivel to replace my old one (the gears inside had stripped). Right now the car is up on tire savers for the winter, but I'm looking forward to testing things out next spring.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:52 pm

Looking great!
You should be very happy with it.
Rich

Post by **Susanne** » Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:47 am

But... but... but... it's RED! Red and white... good thing this is in the off topic thread, otherwise it might be considered blasphemy....

Seriously BEAUTIFUL Flanders! I am jealous!

Post by **CudaMan** » Mon Jun 03, 2024 8:36 pm

I haven't posted an update in a while, but for those that don't "do" Facebook, I took Ned (my name for the Flanders) to his first local car show a couple of weeks ago. He got lots of interest, the most stressful part was crank starting him in front of a crowd once the show ended. Luckily, he fired right up on the third pull of the crank and I drove home without incident.

Post by **Tadpole** » Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:49 am

MmmmMmm them plugs sure look good! Glad to hear you and the machine are well.

hull 433 · Post by **hull 433** » Thu Jun 06, 2024 12:48 pm

Mark, I remember when you bought that car. Congratulations on bringing her back to life and taking her on the road.

Flanders cars looked somewhat flimsy compared to EMF and others. Is this true or is it sturdier than it looks?

For 1912, yes, Flanders had black frames. Ford did too, pretty much a market trend then, starting about 1911 on. Here's a color image of the 1912 Flanders 20 roadster from their catalog. Racy little thing.

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:13 pm

I would say that the Flanders is stronger than it looks. It could be considered the EMF 30's "little brother". The front axle and steering linkage certainly look beefy compared to equivalent Model T Ford parts. For instance, the rear axle shafts are 1/16 inch larger diameter than a Model T. Whether the Flanders parts used Vanadium steel, I can't say, period advertisements don't mention it.

Early production Flanders 20s came with a two speed, sliding gear transaxle that got a reputation for being fragile. Later production cars (like mine) came with a stronger, three speed sliding gear transaxle.

hull 433 · Post by **hull 433** » Fri Jun 07, 2024 1:12 pm

Thats good to know. I saw a video of a Flanders 20 touring in Europe that was also a stronger machine than it looked. Glad you'll get lots of miles out of her.

No sign of Vanadium steel in Flanders ads, even when they talk about the production process. It might be a safe assumption they did not, maybe compensated for by the increased axle dimensions over the Ford.

The transaxle was a trouble spot in the early EMFs too. This is a 1909-10 touring I photographed few years back. It performed well on tour, and its owners drove it home when done, so it must have been cleared up.