Need advice on starting Model T journey

[apecrap]

I finally have the means to ask my grandma if I could take the Model T and restore it - she said yes! Only thing is, I’ve never restored a vehicle, but I have some support (Mechanical Engineer friend and Electrical Engineer friend who are really excited to help out), means/willingness to do classes/education, the monthly money drip (or fountain), and a lot of excitement to learn so much. I’ve read up a bit and am aware that restoring one is a labor of love. Moreover, I’m okay making a plan, failing, and asking/paying for help. I just think it’s super neat my grandma has one and it should come back to life! It’d be especially neat too if I can fix it up for her to see in her lifetime.

I have under a month to prepare to visit my grandma in New Jersey, pick up the Model T, then bring it out to Colorado where I live. I have a lot of questions and need some input from everyone experienced in the community. Not much is known about the Model T’s current status. It’s a 1918, but nobody knows the model (probably a Touring). My grandfather bought it in the 1950s, began restoration, may have fully gotten it restored, and then the engine block cracked and he stopped working on it. From what my dad remembers, it could be driven before it was put in the shed.

• Transport. How do you transport a Model T cross-country? I initially thought I’d just drive it back and rent some for of UHaul or something. However, with more thought, I’m thinking it’d be best to pay someone given time back to me and insurance. I read a number of folks used UShip to bid, but then I also need some advice on tying it down so I direct the tie-down process well. Any insights on what’s worked for you are appreciated.

• Formal Education. I love learning and have a couple higher education degrees since I just get curious and go learn more. This would be my new “degree program” and my learning obviously cannot be all in books. I’ve done some woodworking and handyman type work (fixing the fridge, AC), but I do not have welding skills or more vehicle skills than an oil change. I don’t want to go down rabbit holes learning irrelevant information though. Any input on base skills I should look into acquiring for restoration of it?

• Community Education. So it looks like I’ll be joining the group, buying books, watching everyone’s videos, etc. I do intend to visit the museum at some point too. I saw on the museum website that they do driving classes too which is neat and I’d definitely do those if I finish the project. Do I have my bases covered, or are there some other resources I should look into to help with the whole endeavor?

• Title. I read a good bit on the forum regarding titles. There is no title for the Model T. I’m thinking I should do a Bill of Sale from my grandma to show it is not stolen, ship it to Colorado, then pursue a title. Personally, I think I would like it to be roadworthy, meaning sacrificing some of the original nature such as turn signals. I need to read more on titles and which one fits. Any opinions on getting a title sooner than later or which title to get?

• Any other recommendations anyone has before embarking on the endeavor?

[George House]

Congratulations Audrey ! Your intentions and early planning are to be admired. Let me be the first to welcome you to our affliction. You’ll be covered down with good advice - Take it. First of all; join a local club. Theres the ‘Mile High Chapter’ with their President listed in Lakewood. You used the word “roadworthy” and my red flag spidey sense was drawn to your describing the ‘18 touring hasn’t been driven since the ‘50s. An original poor engineering feature of the Model T are the Babbitt thrust washers in the differential that are usually reduced to globs in the differential housings causing the pinion gear to jump the ring gear. We machine and replace the failed Babbitt with available bronze. There’s plenty of service manuals, lube and wiring charts, etc. Also plenty of parts vendors found on this web site. You’re in for a lot of fun….Ask away !

[Norman Kling]

From the club, obtain the books on the Engine, transmission, front and rear axles, electrical system. They have step by step instructions on these things. I even wound my own magneto rings and they work on two of my cars. Or they can be bought from the suppliers.
First thing to decide is whether you want to "restore" the car. That would make everything exactly like the original car. Or do you want to get the car running and the body looking good even if it is not completely original. Do you want to have the car judged or just drive it for fun? A lot of things like the above will influence what you do.
It is much easier to make your car a good running car for tours and showing an example of a Model T than to make everything exactly "original".
Join the nearest local club and you will find a lot of help, and you will find machinists who can fix the mechanical parts. Etc. Have fun.
Norm

[TWrenn]

Re hauling yes I'd try a professional hauler such as Freighter Jim or Bill's Auto Works both I think are in the service section of this forum

As for title your best bet is to do the bill of sale and get it done in Colorado. But you may want to check your local title office first and get a feel for their procedures. In ohio it's fairly simple...with your bill of sale in hand you can either take the car to the local license agency & they will inspect it to see if the numbers match on your B.O.S. then you take the sign-off to the title office. Some places make you take the car to the nearest highway patrol office for inspection. One of the few government things that are actually easy!

Good luck and welcome to the affliction!
You'll want a second one eventually!

[big2bird]

Get it home. The guys in classifieds come recommended/ reasonable.

My modern advice. Take your cell phone and photograph everything as you go. You want to post a question, thumb thru pictures.

Bag and tag any small parts/ mark bags with sharpie.

Do NOT assume it's a correct/ servicable/ part.

Good luck. It's not really rocket science.

[modeltspaz]

Welcome, Audrey,

You mentioned that you lack things like welding skills. I highly reccomend taking welding classes at the local J.C. to obtain such skills. I know that when it comes to welding, learning the basics and practicing is well worth the time spent. Don't be afraid. The instructors know that students come there to learn. Certified welders don't take beginning welding classes.

While you're at it, check into their Automotive Education Department. You can pick up some solid basic skills there. If you decide to go that route, let the instructor know what you have and your intent in both cases.

Good luck, and photograph everything before you disassemble. That way you've got documentation showing "Now where the he!! did this part come from?!?!?"

Mike "modeltspaz" Spaziano.

[Oldav8tor]

Welcome Audrey, I've found the Model T Hobby to be one of the most rewarding things I've ever taken up. Of the people you'll meet you'll find none better. Join a club and take part in their activities ---- you won't regret it.

You mention the engine block is cracked. That usually means replacing the block or the whole engine. My suggestion would be to take out the engine and transmission (they come out as one unit) and have it rebuilt by an experienced Model T engine rebuilder. Often the VIN number is the engine number so if you change the block you may need to grind off the old numbers and re-stamp it if you want your bill of sale to match.

I would also pull the rear end and rebuild it as well. You might need new thrust washers, axles, drive shaft, etc. you won't know until you look.

I'm a retired science teacher so I also enjoy the challenge of learning something new. A Model T is vastly different from cars of today, even from cars of the 40's onward. Since I bought my 1917 touring in 2018, I have had a graduate course in Model T systems and maintenance and still have much to learn. My car had sat for over 30 years so I went thru everything mechanical and electrical on the car.....everything. Now I have a reliable car that I have driven over 12000 miles since the fall of 2019.

My advice to you... some of the more critical repairs are best left to those with the knowledge and tools to do the job properly. Repairs that have to be re-done will cost more than doing it right the first time. Also, don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum.... that's what it's here for.

[DHort]

service manual.jpg (3.84 KiB) Viewed 3485 times

Here is the bible. Get a copy and read it. Everyone has a copy.

Like Norm said, also purchase the manuals from one of the vendors. They were put together by this group.

I am sure Steve, the dauntless geezer will pop on hear and direct you to his website

Then come back here and ask all the questions you want.

You can also join the FB group, Model T Ford Club of Facebook, if you use social media.

[Steve Jelf]

Dave made me do this. You may find some of the articles on this page helpful:
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

I agree that a beginning welding class is useful. I took such a class at the local juco thirty years ago, and it was time well spent. Nobody will ever accuse me of being a skilled welder, but the basics of sticking stuff together have served me well over the years.

Different people mean different things by restore. In my book a real restoration means completely dismantling the vehicle down to the nuts and bolts and cleaning, fixing, repainting, and reassembling all the little pieces with the goal of making it look like it just rolled off the showroom floor a century ago. Some people actually take that approach, and while some others scoff at "purists" I admire those who have the talent and dedication to pull it off. Those are the cars you see at fancy shows, where they often win trophies.

The opposite approach is to load a hundred-year-old vehicle with all sorts of modern geegaws they call "upgrades", which are often the opposite. I am in the vast middle ground, but leaning in the pure direction. I don't demand 100% original stock, but my concessions to modernity are few. I would rather be out driving than sitting at a show hoping to bring home more clutter, and I can accept a few modern details that will help me do that.

Your desire to have some idea what you're doing before you dig in is wise. By modern standards the Model T is simple, but thanks to Henry Ford it does contain some surprises. Ford hated paying royalties, and he and his engineers often invented their way around doing so by coming up with a different way of accomplishing similar results. It's wise to read up on a procedure before starting it. That can sometimes prevent a costly surprise.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

I don’t know what your plans for transporting the car but that will incur a sizable outlay. When you get the car home your first job is figuring out what the supposed cracked block involves. This could be a simple freeze out plug or major engine block damage. You don’t know who diagnosed it in the first place so you’re starting from scratch. YOU NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT’S WRONG before investing further money into the project on things other than the engine. Don’t bother with tons of books and the like right now. Plenty of time to spend cash later. This engine problem needs to be cleared up first. Find a local club. Get help checking it out. Don’t guess that’ll cost you.

[Oldav8tor]

Very good advice from Charlie B. Our club in Michigan will help a new owner assess the condition and repair needs of a car.... I'm sure folks in other clubs will do likewise. Once you get the car assessed you can make a plan to tackle what needs to be done. Don't assume anything..... inspect and determine before going forward and spending a lot of $$$

[apecrap]

Thanks so much to you all for all the advice, stories, and guidance! I'm so fortunate to live in a day and age where I can glean advice from people around the country to help on this project. You've all given me a good deal to think on in terms of how I want to approach "restoring" or fixing it up.

I am signed up for some courses at the junior college, my library is expanding with books, and I have the whole extended family on board to create a plan to get it out of the shed and to Colorado! I did get a great visit in which was informative. Luckily, it looks like there are no obvious cracks in the engine block, so hopefully that was just family rumor and we didn't miss anything. I'm now making the full transport plan and have another new post on the next part of the puzzle - getting the vehicle out of the shed: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46232#p351381

[Steve Jelf]

There are a couple of other things I should mention. Anybody who has worked on more than one T is aware:

They're not all the same. This was true during their 19 years of production, and after 100 years it's more so. A corollary of that is: States are not all the same either. It's OK to ignore much of the advice you get on titles/registration. Study the rules and procedures in YOUR state. They're guaranteed to be different from what you find in many other states.

Don't assume that what you find on your car actually belongs there. Some of the things that have been done may be products of a creative mind, or they may be whatever was easiest or cheapest at the time.

Believe Norm. Restore is an elastic term that means different things to different people. The best policy here is to study how Ford did it, then adjust as you see fit. Purity and correctness are on a continuum. At one end are the sticklers some people deride as "purists". At the other end are those with no interest in what's original or "correct". Most of us are somewhere in between. I lean toward original features, but I do accept some minor "upgrades".

[varmint]

Hi Audrey,

I recommend getting the Bill of Sale notarized in the state that it sits right now then...

https://dmv.colorado.gov/titling-vehicle

[TRDxB2]

As Steve Jelf noted there are many meanings and dollars associated to word "restore". A deciding factor is a balance between what you need to invest in it so as not to exceed its desired end appearance value. Regardless the all that, the first thing is to take what you have & just get in driving condition.
Start with this https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG98.html
There are websites full of free "original" literature here's some links to get acquainted
https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm
https://modeltfordfix.com/
--

[micshotrodgarage]

Audrey, I'm right there with you. As a Colorado resident and needing to title my T here as well, I would start as Varmint suggested, And go even further, and if possible get a title in the state it's in now. I would try to make it as painless as can then going through the system in Colorado for a lost title. The transfer of current paper work may be the easiest way. As suggested check with the Colorado DMV for the easiest way. Best of luck this your new T. Mike

[varmint]

Audrey,
If you title it in New Jersey as Michael suggested, it looks like New Jersey does not have Property Taxes for automobiles (ownership).
https://www.nj.gov/treasury/taxation/do ... -Guide.pdf
Since there is a Bill of Sale, there is a cost (selling price), which may/may not be subject to Sales Tax (6.625%) in New Jersey. See the conditions. It looks like gifting of an auto is allowed. If you do have to pay sales tax, save the receipt and make a copy of it.

Then when you title it in Colorado, present the New Jersey sales tax receipt which may help you avoid paying sales tax (2.90%) again.
https://dmv.colorado.gov/taxes-and-fees

I titled a car here in Louisiana without a title but had a bill of sale (not notarized). Six months in court before the justice of the peace, towing it to and from the State Police and other documents before getting a title.

I titled a car here in Louisiana without a title but had a bill of sale (notarized). I had the title within 10 days mailed to me.

[Oldav8tor]

I've been involved in titling a couple of Model T's in Michigan that only had bills of sale. The state required a written evaluation of the value of the car to determine the value for tax purposes. If you can find somebody to go thru the vehicle a (without having to tear it apart) and list the visible condition and likely repairs or inspections that should be made along with an estimated value, the state has always found that acceptable. You'll have to see what the state you title it in does. One other suggestion....rural Secretary of State offices are often easier to work with than busy ones in big cities....at least that has been the experience here in Michigan.

[Steve Jelf]

I'll repeat another post of mine. Most of the advice you get on title and registration comes from other states and can be ignored. Study and learn the correct rules and procedures in your state.