Headlights Through the Years Question

[ryanf1023]

I’m looking for a matching headlight and bracket for my speedster. The one I have (driver’s side) is labeled “1917-1925” that I picked up at a swap meet earlier in the year, and that’s the era I’m sticking too for my speedster. I put an ad in the Foothills T Club looking for a matching set, and I got a photo sent back asking “how about these?”

I came to realize, I actually don’t know! In my head I assumed that the 1917-1925 was one style, interchangeable throughout the years. However, I don’t actually know that to be the case. I’m looking for answers on the different styles of electric headlamps and the corresponding brackets, from 1915-1927 if the forum can help me please.

Ryan

[ryanf1023]

Here is my headlamp

And here is the set I was shown. Clearly different mounting methods, but I don’t know the years for this set.

[Oldav8tor]

Very early 1915 . Used the same fork as the gas headlights.

[Mark Gregush]

Very early 1915 or before. Used the same fork as the gas headlights.

Canadian not US production.

[Dan Hatch]

Someone needs to invest in Bruce’s book and Gail’s books.

[John kuehn]

Dan you hit the nail on the head! Model T’s and their parts aren’t always exactly alike! It takes a while to figure that out but eventually it comes around. Thanks to the folks Dan mentioned, a lot can be learned by reading their books! And don’t forget the Model T encyclopedia that’s on this website.

[Mark Gregush]

The 2ed photo of light on fender support, that style was used on TT trucks in 1926/27 too. So, 1915 to 1927 would be correct with some changes to the location of the focus screw.

[Dan Hatch]

The one on the fender iron looks like it might be one of those center door lights with the bulb socket offset?
Good luck finding a mate and reflectors.

[TRDxB2]

I’m looking for a matching headlight and bracket for my speedster. The one I have (driver’s side) is labeled “1917-1925” that I picked up at a swap meet earlier in the year, and that’s the era I’m sticking too for my speedster. I put an ad in the Foothills T Club looking for a matching set, and I got a photo sent back asking “how about these?”

I came to realize, I actually don’t know! In my head I assumed that the 1917-1925 was one style, interchangeable throughout the years. However, I don’t actually know that to be the case. I’m looking for answers on the different styles of electric headlamps and the corresponding brackets, from 1915-1927 if the forum can help me please.

Ryan

Another thread about the same issue recently posted https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45301
There ends of the headlight posts that bolt to the fender irons are slightly different.
There are several changes to the electric headlights https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/I-O.htm#lamps
Early 1915 electric used the same U forks of the predecessors
1915-1917 have flat sides at the stop, while 1922-1925 have a tapered stop
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Even though the stops are od a different design, I would guess that it would be possible to reshape the later style to have flat sides like the earlier design to fit into the corresponding fender iron.

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There are some differences in the buckets as well. some had the adjusting screw at 12 o'clock, then none for the two bulb buckets then at 9 o'clock as explain the link above. Notice too, in the line drawings that there is a lens difference which also means that th clips inside the rims are different to hold the different style glass
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While there are slight differences at the base of the fender irons those had nothing to do with attaching the headlights
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front fender irons 2.png (240.72 KiB) Viewed 2814 times

[Allan]

If it has a riveted on mounting stalk, about the only variations are the shoulders on the threaded end, the focus screw position and one other cosmetic difference. The top of the mounting stalk may be forged directly onto the curved bucket mounting, or there may be a raised collar around the stalk at that point. Most of these minor differences can be fudged to resemble another. It just depends on how anal you are about things being a perfect match.
On a speedster it really doesn't matter, and the differences are hardly noticeable even if left as they are.

That said, I have been salting away two headlight buckets for my latest [last?] project. Twice now I have liberated two buckets with slight differences to end up with a perfect pair, only because I could and was not yet ready to use them. I am still looking for a pair of 22 hood shelves. The two nice ones I have stashed are the same shape, but have the accommodation for the headlight wires in notches on the side rather than through holes on the top. You can do this stuff if there is no time pressure.


Allan from down under.

[ryanf1023]

Thank you all for the replies. What I’ve learned is that the hardware/brackets/irons are far scarcer than the buckets themselves. I suppose that’s the constraining variable I have when it comes to finishing my car.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Ryan F, The two fork mounted electric headlamps you show in the second photo of your second post above might be Canadian electric headlamps, or maybe likely after-market electric headlamps. If you were in the USA, I would say they were most likely after-market headlamps as literally thousands of such lamps were sold beginning about 1912 to upgrade brass era model Ts to the more modern electric headlamps.
It used to be believed that early 1915 USA built model Ts had fork mounted electric headlamps, however, serious research has never found any evidence of that. Canadian production on the other hand did use fork mounted electric headlamps at least 1915 through most of 1916 and era photographs show even on some 1917 models with fork mounted electric headlamps.

People are funny creatures. Some embrace new technologies quickly, while others drag their feet hanging onto older technologies for a longer time.
There were automobiles using electric lamps much earlier, mostly on electric automobiles even as early as 1900. And even some gasoline powered automobiles had electric lamps by 1910. However, it was the practical electric starter introduced in 1912 that created the push for electric lamps on most automobiles. Many automakers offered both gas/oil and electric lamps as options, many beginning in 1912, and many through about 1914. Ford however did not offer electric headlamps until the 1915 model year. And then, for the model T, it wasn't an option.
People however, being funny things, did not always cooperate. Hence, literally thousands of gas headlamp era model Ts got after-market electric headlamps (many of them made to mount on the car's original headlamp forks). Meanwhile, some significant number of newer model Ts that had electric headlamps from the factory were retrofitted with earlier gas headlamps by Ford dealers and local repair shops for owners/buyers that were more comfortable with familiar older technology.

[TRDxB2]

Thank you all for the replies. What I’ve learned is that the hardware/brackets/irons are far scarcer than the buckets themselves. I suppose that’s the constraining variable I have when it comes to finishing my car.

Check with Bob at Bob's Antique Auto Parts he is a MTFCA member and userid FATMAN. He has lots of the non-U shaped ones for all types.
I have 1 U shaped one

[ryanf1023]

Wayne, I’m indeed Canadian, so that makes sense. Thank you for the information.

Thank you for the suggesting Frank. I’m going to spend a little more time searching locally here first but will keep Bob in mind.

Ryan

[ModelTMitch]

Greetings Canadians!
As an avid fan of CBC's Heartland, I was amazed when I saw the picture on the Foothills Model T Club Info page, taken at the CL Western Town film set near Calgary, with the Model T's parked out front. This same set was used in an episode of Heartland. Next week (9th Nov) I will be travelling to Sydney to meet Graham Wardle (former Heartland cast member) as he is visiting Australia. I knew I had some kind of connection with Canada, and to find that Alberta has it's own Model T club is just the icing on the cake!
Sorry for being slightly off topic, just wanted to shout out to Canada Thanks for keeping the Model T hobby alive and well!

[TXGOAT2]

Getting bulbs and competent service for automotive electric lights probably lagged in many areas.