Perplexing Electrical Problem on my 1922 Touring.

[ivaldes1]

Hello all, my electric failed at church a few weeks ago. I successfully crank started it and got home. Now it behaves oddly and I am perplexed. If I take the footswitch battery to switch cable off and put it back on the electrical comes on (horn works, coil boxes buzz) and press the foot switch I get one small rev of the starter then everything goes dead and the horn and coil boxes don't work. The post that the battery to foot switch cable goes to seems somewhat loose. I tried to snug down the inner nut but it kind of spins. Should I have held the inner nut with a cone wrench? Is the footswitch bad now? Do I replace the footswitch or take it off and try to fix it? Cables look ok. Ground to the frame is good. If I run a jumper cable from the + battery terminal to the foot switch post the coil boxes and horn come on. I can see the main positive to the wiring harness is right on the battery to footswitch post so of course they would come on. Oddly they don't stay on if I try to activate the foot switch. Battery is fully charged and fresh. What could be wrong and how do I fix this? Many thanks!

-- IV

[ivaldes1]

Starter was replaced with a new rebuilt one a few years ago and has not been excessively used.

[John kuehn]

The first thing I would check is the foot switch. Is it an original or a aftermarket. The original switch’s have copper contact strips inside that can eventually get burned up. And if the bolt was loose as you said maybe the insulator washer is worn out and shorting out.

I’m just guessing from what you’ve said. If it’s an original you can remove it and take it apart to check it out. Lang’s makes an insulator repair kit for original switch’s. Maybe that’s the issue. Good luck.

Also it may be the ignition switch. That’s another issue that can cause problems.

[RajoRacer]

Post a photo of your foot switch if possible - it can be identified by the bunch here.

[Moxie26]

Prior to your problem, with the engine running, did your ammeter show a positive charge from the generator?... Also, what color are your battery cable/ starter switch cables ???..... Fabric colored black insulated thick cable for better amperage transmission at 6 volt, or thin cables usually for 12 volt ???..... At the battery, is there any part of the battery cable connector touching anything metal like the battery holding frame.... Could be a source of battery discharge.

[ivaldes1]

Looks very old/original, however it looks like it was welded together in the past.

[Moxie26]

Thanks for posting pictures... Really wouldn't hurt to get replacement " Battery/ starter cables " from one of our vendors and also clean up the terminals ,,bright n shiney, on the starter switch. .... Switch appears to be a replacement, not one of the ones issued by Ford, I could be wrong.

[George House]

Doc,

Others will disagree with this but a TSC switch is the same as vendors sell at half the price. I’ve used them for years. Do you have an extension on top of that foot switch ? Lose it if you do.

[Allan]

It is not an original Ford switch. From you report,the terminal is loose in the switch. You need to be able to hold the terminal while tightening the first nut. To do that you must take the switch apart. To do that you must bend back the tabs that hold it together and break the welds.Then you may find the insulation /washers around the terminal are missing/defunct. If they are OK and you can hold the terminal so you can tighten the first nut, after you have cleaned the end for good contact, then do so. Put it back together again.

When fitting the cable, you need a thinned down wrench to hold the first nut. Then when you fit the cable and the second nut, you can hold the terminal in place while doing up the second nut. Failure to hold that first nut may well have been the cause of the problem in the first place.

Personally, I would rather spend the time rebuilding an original switch. These are far superior to any of the modern replacements I have heard of.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Moxie26]

The first cars with a starter and generator from 1919 -1920 did have this style starter foot switch as per shown in Bruce McCalley's book. ...." Model T ford- The car that changed the World "

[Craig Leach]

We all need to learn how to do a volt drop test to find these issues.
Craig.

[ivaldes1]

I do not know about the ammeter. I didn't notice it but was not paying attention either. Battery cables are black and fabric and thick. Not much touching that I can see.

Prior to your problem, with the engine running, did your ammeter show a positive charge from the generator?... Also, what color are your battery cable/ starter switch cables ???..... Fabric colored black insulated thick cable for better amperage transmission at 6 volt, or thin cables usually for 12 volt ???..... At the battery, is there any part of the battery cable connector touching anything metal like the battery holding frame.... Could be a source of battery discharge.

[ivaldes1]

Thanks, where can I find a TSC switch?

Doc,

Others will disagree with this but a TSC switch is the same as vendors sell at half the price. I’ve used them for years. Do you have an extension on top of that foot switch ? Lose it if you do.

[RajoRacer]

Lang's carries them - https://www.modeltford.com/item/5014RE.aspx

[Moxie26]

Yes Steve, that is a acceptable replacement switch but the mounting bracket that is on his car now is riveted to the frame.

[Norman Kling]

TSC stands for Tractor Supply Company. The starter switch is connected directly to the battery so the ammeter does not read the current to the starter. The small wire from the terminal where the battery cable is attached goes to the terminal block to the ammeter. All the other circuits should be connected to the opposite terminal of the ammeter.
Norm

[John kuehn]

Here’s a picture of the later and dependable starter switch and the most common original Ford starter switch. Much better than the TSC switches. Most of the time they can be repaired.
But if you can’t find one use the other switches mentioned.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

From your description, and from your photos, I would suggest that you purchase a better/rebuilt switch and also new cables.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

So basically every thing looks OK electrically and you completely lose power when a load is applied. It’s the battery. There’s a poor/failed internal connection. Under an extreme load, (cranking) it “opens” . Load test the battery if nothing else shows up connect ion wise.

[Moxie26]

Since the foot starter bracket is riveted to the frame, to me, that would suggest that could be a 19 or 20 original chassis......and, you're saying the car is a 22, probably going by the serial number on the engine. It was not uncommon for engines to be replaced in Model T service days.

[RajoRacer]

I didn't read in that his switch base was riveted to the frame on his Touring ?

[Mike Silbert]

So basically every thing looks OK electrically and you completely lose power when a load is applied. It’s the battery. There’s a poor/failed internal connection. Under an extreme load, (cranking) it “opens” . Load test the battery if nothing else shows up connect ion wise.

Charlie has it correct, there is a connection that fails under high load somewhere. Hit the starter and cause it to fail then find the bad connection. Be careful, troubleshooting may "fix" the connection. The problem is somewhere in battery or its cables or connections including grounds.

And as Craig Leach says - "We all need to learn how to do a voltage drop test to find these issues"

Follow the circuit step by step and the problem will be discovered.
Everything else is blindfold hunting or throwing money (parts and time) at the problem.
Mike

[RecklessKelly]

Those cables are pretty rough and could short out thru the worn insulation. The terminations are probably corroded inside of the lugs. Langs sells the replacements on the positive side but I didnt see a negative listed. I ordered one for my car from ebay, sold by the foot with terminations.

[Humblej]

Ignacio,
Your vehicle lights, horn, coils, ammeter, and generator are independent of the starter switch except that it is a junction for the vehicle power wire and the battery cable. If you have a loose connection and/or corrosion at the terminals at either end of the battery cable you will not have reliable vehicle power or power to the starter switch. A bad starter switch in itself will not cause you to loose power to your lights, horn, coils, ammeter, and generator. A bad starter switch will keep you from sending power to the starter motor. A bad battery will prevent you from getting power to the starter motor and the vehicle power.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Got a voltmeter? Hook it up directly to the battery terminals. Got a reading? Good. Now hit the starter and lose all power. Voltmeter dropped to zero? You found your problem. Battery. Diagnostics.

[TRDxB2]

Can you post a picture of the top of your battery so we can see the date/yr punches , make & model. When was it purchased?

[Ron Patterson]

Just a word of caution on the MCS Electronics 1/0 battery cable advertised above.
Before buying, make sure the ring terminals to cable connections are soldered. If they are only crimped they wont last long.
Possibly you can remove the heat shrink tubing and solder them to enhance the crimped connection?
Crimped connections on high current Model T cable to terminal connections are exposed and highly susepctible to corroson.
Ron Patterson

[ivaldes1]

I anticipated that it was the battery so I took it to Interstate batteries, they tested it as good but I didn't trust it so I bought a new one last week and put it in, no change.

Can you post a picture of the top of your battery so we can see the date/yr punches , make & model. When was it purchased?

[ivaldes1]

I took it off, here are more pictures. It isn't riveted. I don't know if I want to take the trouble to cut the welds with an angle grinder and try and fix it or just buy a new one.

[ivaldes1]

It is not riveted to the frame. It is probably a 1922 body with a 1925 motor and a 1913 differential. The best guess is that at some point in its history it was sandwich crashed then parts replaced from various cars. I bought it from Backyards Classics in Minnessota who bought it from a mystery person who wishes to remain anonymous who bought it from an auction. When I received it, it was very worn out and needed a lot of attention. So, the history of the car is a complete mystery.
 

Since the foot starter bracket is riveted to the frame, to me, that would suggest that could be a 19 or 20 original chassis......and, you're saying the car is a 22, probably going by the serial number on the engine. It was not uncommon for engines to be replaced in Model T service days.

[Moxie26]

Since the foot starter bracket is riveted to the frame, to me, that would suggest that could be a 19 or 20 original chassis......and, you're saying the car is a 22, probably going by the serial number on the engine. It was not uncommon for engines to be replaced in Model T service days.

[RecklessKelly]

The newish starter cable replacements on my car don't have soldered lugs, they are only crimped, and I'm sure the ground cable on its way isn't soldered either. To solder a 1/0 lug, a large solder unit like an Esico-Triton with handheld carbon taper tipped applicator is needed. Silver-bearing solder should be used.

[speedytinc]

You have nothing to lose by trying to rebuild it. If nothing else, you will learn how & where it failed. I prefer the later style OEM switches, but replacing insulator washers & redressing the contacts is a simple task. That switch has different types of insulators compared to the later style, so the langs insulator kit wont cover all of them.
I dont know of a new switch thats 1/2 as good as a rebuilt original unit.

[Allan]

Spot on John. A rebuilt original is far superior to anything available new.

Allan from down under.

[ivaldes1]

I grinded the welds off then came back with a Dremel cutting wheel but it isn't separating, certainly not easily. Nearly nothing is, right? Ideas?

[John kuehn]

Use a small screwdriver to try to get it move. Prey up on it a little.

The switch you have was put on years ago is the incorrect style switch for your later frame. Like a lot of T parts it would interchange with other T’s.
The picture that’s posted of the early 19-20 T’s show the earlier switch bracket which doesn’t have an opening like the later cars did. Your car is a later car because the later bracket on your car has the open ended bracket. Ford used the later style switch till the end of T production because it was a better design. The earlier style switches were replaced for a reason probably because the later style was a simpler design that worked better and simpler to make. My opinion of course!!

But it would be interesting to see what the inside design of the earlier looked like compared to the later style switch.

[Moxie26]

If you have a drill with a wire wheel, use that to clean up the posts and nuts and lock washers on that switch.... And then use a continuity meter to test continuity and/or resistance when the switch is pressed on.

[ivaldes1]

Zero continuity when the switch is pressed on. Hey mister, there is your problem... Another problem is that this is going to be difficult to open up as the welds go deep into the seam around the perimeter and there isn't much of a slot to insert a flat bladed screwdriver to pry it apart. I used a Dremel with a cutting wheel but most of the welds look solid through and through on what was the seam.

If you have a drill with a wire wheel, use that to clean up the posts and nuts and lock washers on that switch.... And then use a continuity meter to test continuity and/or resistance when the switch is pressed on.

[RecklessKelly]

Best to buy a new one if thats the case. I have this one in my car and its fine. I wouldn't use the extension, they are too long. Almost impossible to remove without having to machine it off. If you need one, make one just tall enough to be proud of the floor when pressed in and secure it with RTV.

[RajoRacer]

Switch extension depends on year & body style.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

How about this guy? Is this one of the crummy ones?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... tch-dr405c

[Norman Kling]

Looks like one I have had on my 26 for 30 years. I got it from either Chaffin's or Langs. No problems so far. The button comes just above my floorboard. Might need an extension on a different year car.
Norm

[ivaldes1]

The switch yielded to fine wood chisels forcing it open. The garage bench cleaning fairy has been out this year. The stud base was turned when I first opened it and the insulator is torn so that is probably why it is shorting out. I am told on good authority that it is an 'oddball' early switch 1919 or before. Lang's does not sell that insulator that you see is torn. I am going to try the round non-grounding washers that Lang's kit sells and hope it works.

[George House]

No Jerry, Thats the TSC tractor switch I’ve had on all my Ts that have starter motors. They’ve given me no troubles since I started buying them - locally

[RajoRacer]

The TSC switch is USA made - I've got them on 3 of my starter cars & installed at least a dozen or more on customer's cars - no bad reports ever.

You might be money ahead just to replace the switch.

[John kuehn]

If you buy another switch be sure it doesn’t extend to high above the floorboard. The no. 1 problem with a foot switch is the driver doesn’t push straight down. Pushing down at an angle eventually cause the switch to break.

[RVA23T]

How about this guy? Is this one of the crummy ones?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... tch-dr405c

Inexpensive vs crummy is the sales guy in me.
I have this exact switch on mine. After 2 yrs of mostly Friday Saturday and Sunday driving, it acted like the battery was dead when starting. I opened it up cleaned the contacts which shown arcing mostly on the upper spring contact bridge, rotated the contact so the better side is used on the arcing side copper post. The copper post were good with no severe arc pitting.
Never have had a sticking issue with this switch and I feel it is almost a consumable item at its price point should you choose not to have an original starter switch.

When it is an issue again I will buy a new one and most likely add a solenoid then.

[jsaylor]

In your original post you stated "

I tried to snug down the inner nut but it kind of spins. Should I have held the inner nut with a cone wrench?"

That is your main battery supply to the car. It must be tight. Is it tight now? Will it move if you try to twist or wiggle it? If it won't tighten up, relace it and the ends. Use a heavy 1/0 cable.

[DanTreace]

I'ld just replace that early style footswitch with the repro one, I did that with the Tractor Supply version, modified the later bolt on bracket to the frame, and works fine.

Rep foot switch top view mounted.jpg (53.65 KiB) Viewed 17784 times

Rep foot switch side view mounted.jpg (58.98 KiB) Viewed 17784 times

Rep foot switch in frame.jpg (49.23 KiB) Viewed 17784 times

BYW here are the many styles of footswitches that Ford used, some bolted the bracket to the frame, others were riveted to the frame.

[Moxie26]

Thanks Dan for your good information and pictures !

[Moxie26]

Ivaldes1...... Thanks for your effort and " post-mortem " pictures of that early foot switch .... simple but effective.

[TRDxB2]

How about this guy? Is this one of the crummy ones?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... tch-dr405c

Inexpensive vs crummy is the sales guy in me.
I have this exact switch on mine. After 2 yrs of mostly Friday Saturday and Sunday driving, it acted like the battery was dead when starting. I opened it up cleaned the contacts which shown arcing mostly on the upper spring contact bridge, rotated the contact so the better side is used on the arcing side copper post. The copper post were good with no severe arc pitting.
Never have had a sticking issue with this switch and I feel it is almost a consumable item at its price point should you choose not to have an original starter switch.

When it is an issue again I will buy a new one and most likely add a solenoid then.

Pretty much all made by one company and package under different brand names. NOTE the eBAY junk
The extension tube sold with some is optional if the height is needed

--
--
A few years back this style failed because of how the plunger tube base was connected to the mounting plate with 4 bent over tabs. If the plunger tube was protruding to high above the floorboard & or the hole was too big, the driver force would bend the base held by the tabs. A few other design error in my opinion.

--
Proper height - plunger goes straight done when depressed

293589.jpg (44.8 KiB) Viewed 17744 times

[ivaldes1]

Mine circled in red.

[Allan]

Top left one is the easier one of the two originals to work on. the plunger/top cover is held on with two screws. The other original style uses four bent over tabs, and these can break when dis-assembling the switch.

Allan from down under.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

I see you’re into this switch business but how could that be his problem? A short past the starter would blow his fuse if he has one. An open would cause what he’s experiencing. The heavy current draw is causing some component to heat quickly and open the circuit. It cools and the tenuous connection reconnects. (I realize he’s replaced the battery but this is SO common a battery problem it’s haunting me). Is there any mention of the ground cable? Is it the braided type? Mine was taking a dive and I only found it when diagnosing a slow crank condition. The cable was actually smoking. All connections were clean/tight. Replaced it and the cranking speed improved. I believe it would have caused an open if it wasn’t found.

[TXGOAT2]

There's a lot of flimsy junk on the market today that is just not suited for 6 volt service, if any service. Cheap batteries are never a bargain, in my experience, and a battery's useful life can be uncertain. An actual voltage regulator could be expected to extend the service life of a battery used in a Model T. A starter that drags will make very high demands on other parts of the starting system, and an engine that does not start readily can lead to starter issues. Low operating voltage due to poor connections, undersized cables, or a weak or undercharged battery is hard on starters. The whole system works best and gives the least trouble when the starter gets full cranking voltage and when the engine is in good tune so that it will start readily in any weather, which keeps the starter's duty cycle brief. A starter in good condition makes the least demand on other parts of the system and promotes easy starting by spinning the engine rapidly while drawing minimal current, thus supporting the ignition system's operation during cranking.

[ivaldes1]

I have the shorted stud off of the switch. After taking the nuts off I tried to turn what I think is a threaded washer off but that didn't seem to work so I put a nut on the end and hammered it and it came off with problems. I think that this washer is threaded to the stud and I bent it out of shape a bit by hammering it off. In picture one the metal washer circled in red in picture 3. You can see the gouging in picture one. I turned it the last few turns off the end of the stud and that was worse shredding the threads. When I got it off I found it has a triangular hole in the washer so I think it was kind of threaded. I hesitate to put this back on because I think it will tear it up again. I had to get my tap and die set and re-cut the 3/8 inch 16 pitch threads. Whatever the original grey insulating material is on the inside it is sheared off and probably no good anymore. It is pictured in picture 3 the topmost grey square material. From picture one that stack was from top down a threaded washer and two insulating washers. The stud had two nuts and a split washer to hold the cable on. I also managed to lose somewhere Lang's starter switch non-conducting gasket/washer set 5014GS that arrived in the mail. I don't know how to proceed from here to re-pack that stud back on. I think that threaded washer is damaged and I don't think the stud would take another tearing up again. I also don't have any non-conducting 3/8 washers since I lost the 5014GS packet. I would need 3 non-conducting 3/8 inch fibre washers and a way to hold it down. Maybe a 3/8 16 pitch jam nut? Amazon has 3/8 non-conducting fibre washer but they want to sell me 30 of them, same with the jam nut they want to sell me 25 of them. Maybe it will work to hammer the threaded washer flat again and try my chances.

[ivaldes1]

I hammered the threaded washer flat. It is not threading easily, not at all, onto the 3/8 inch stud. The washer looks slightly too tight. The nuts go on smoothly. I don't know how to proceed.

[George House]

Doc Ignacio,……while I appreciate your extraordinary life saving efforts with that now POS starter switch; this is how you should proceed: take $18 with you to the nearest Tractor Supply store and tell the clerk you’d like to purchase a starter switch like in the picture above. Take it home. Mount it and affix cables and the yellow wire. Effortlessly start your Model T and drive it to church tomorrow.

[TXGOAT2]

I don't think there ever was a threaded washer. The remains of fiber insulating washers that you have there are not in any condition to use.
The insulating washers have to keep the copper stud centered in the hole in the metal housing and keep the nuts and washers from contacting the housing. They need to be mechanically strong enough to do the job and they must be heat resistant. It probably originally had a flat fiber washer and a stepped fiber washer for each stud. Insulating washers made for other style switches might fit that one, and insulating washers from some solenoid switches might fit it.

[speedytinc]

The steel washer is a red herring.
Originally the internal insulator was 1 piece with 2 holes. I have seen them with wings on each end (3 sides around the contact) so that if the terminal got loose & turned a bit it wouldnt short out to the case. Thats the tougher insulator to be made from insulator sheet material or some thick/dense cardboard. (that makes rebuilding the early switch version more difficult than the later versions.) The langs kit should work for the other 4 insulators. Each stud has a thin fiber washer to center in the body & 1 large outer. The base nut is tightened to sandwich the insulators & keep the terminal from turning. No lock washers.
Aside of the langs fiber washers, they can be got @ mcmaster carr.

[ivaldes1]

My Brother's and Sister's I must confess that I was weak and doubted my abilities at old switch resurrection. The local TSC was too far of a drive. My spirit was not pure enough, so I had a backup plan in the same shipment with the now misplaced washer kit see attached. I haven't given up on the original switch but I did not want to disappoint the grand nephew coming over for Christmas. Be Prepared(tm)

Doc Ignacio,……while I appreciate your extraordinary life saving efforts with that now POS starter switch; this is how you should proceed: take $18 with you to the nearest Tractor Supply store and tell the clerk you’d like to purchase a starter switch like in the picture above. Take it home. Mount it and affix cables and the yellow wire. Effortlessly start your Model T and drive it to church tomorrow.

[ivaldes1]

Thanks because yes it seems to me that the threaded washer just wasn't right and has been damaging the stud.

The steel washer is a red herring.
Originally the internal insulator was 1 piece with 2 holes. I have seen them with wings on each end (3 sides around the contact) so that if the terminal got loose & turned a bit it wouldnt short out to the case. Thats the tougher insulator to be made from insulator sheet material or some thick/dense cardboard. (that makes rebuilding the early switch version more difficult than the later versions.) The langs kit should work for the other 4 insulators. Each stud has a thin fiber washer to center in the body & 1 large outer. The base nut is tightened to sandwich the insulators & keep the terminal from turning. No lock washers.
Aside of the langs fiber washers, they can be got @ mcmaster carr.

[speedytinc]

I waited to reconfirm the story from one fellow club member's experience with 2 langs replacement switches.
The first one lasted less than a year. The top post got loose @ the tabs & shorted. The second one burned up the internal contacts on one side. also less than 1 year. The top was still solidly attached.

I see where some have had/claim good results from the Tractor Supply unit. The langs & TS switches look the same pictorily.
So I say good luck & will continue to advocate for rebuilding the later style, original ford switch.

[ivaldes1]

I have it on and it works. Also the battery cable at the terminal was loose and crackling and looked worn out so I replaced it with a new one. I will attempt to get the old one working again.

[speedytinc]

Excellent. The important thing is the kids dont get disappointed.
You can take your time with the original switch & have it ready if the new one goes.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

My Brother's and Sister's I must confess that I was weak and doubted my abilities at old switch resurrection. The local TSC was too far of a drive. My spirit was not pure enough, so I had a backup plan in the same shipment with the now misplaced washer kit see attached. I haven't given up on the original switch but I did not want to disappoint the grand nephew coming over for Christmas. Be Prepared(tm)

You did the right thing.

[Allan]

I am not familiar with US Ford bodies, but that installation is dodgey to my eye. You will need to be very careful that you apply foot pressure directly downwards on that extension on top of the switch. The assembly is extra tall and any off- centre load on the plunger will accelerate it breaking away from the cover. If I had to use a new switch in that location, I would be spacing it up on the frame so that I could use it without the extension.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

Alan is correct, too much plunger above the floor board. See my photos above. to correct remove the switch from the frame bracket the flip it over & reattach it to the. frame and attach the switch. should be about the correct height then

[George House]

Allan confirmed my advice to you on 7 December:
“extension ?….. Lose it if you do.”

[Dan Hatch]

Have not read all the post, but just thought I would share what I do.
I install a starter solenoid and let the foot switch control it. I like the ones off 49/50 Ford best. This saves the foot switch from the heavy load of the starter.
These have a push button on them for a manual overdrive if something goes wrong with wiring. Dan

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Are we to assume replacing the starter switch repaired the original problem or was it misrepresented in the first post? Or something else he did corrected the problem as it was described. (replacing cables or whatever). Replacing the starter switch could not have repaired what was originally described; "losing all electrical power when cranking the having it come back".

[ivaldes1]

I think it was 2 problems which made it difficult to figure out. I think the + battery cable was subtly loose at the lead battery cable tie down and probably the switch was bad as well. I am ok with changing out the GM cable because the new Lang ones connections look much more solid. This isn't the first time that this has happened, but it had been years. In any case, I rebuilt the switch with a Lang's switch gasket kit, cleaned it, painted it and I think it is all good now. See pictures series attached of the old switch rebuild.

I am good with the advice to take off the extension by putting the switch at the top of the frame rail rather than inside top of the frame rail. However, I don't think that will get it high enough to dispense with the extension. I haven't tried it yet because the paint is still wet.

Are we to assume replacing the starter switch repaired the original problem or was it misrepresented in the first post? Or something else he did corrected the problem as it was described. (replacing cables or whatever). Replacing the starter switch could not have repaired what was originally described; "losing all electrical power when cranking the having it come back".