Good Building Potential?

[GarJen127]

I have a brass era Model t chassis which I'm looking to purchase as a project car. Is this car the correct measurements for a coupelet? Im looking to build one using a model t chassis.

[Allan]

All chassis were of the same dimensions. The devil is in the details if you want to build a car of a certain year.

Allan from down under.

[GarJen127]

sorry, I forgot to post photos of the chassis in question

[Allan]

Apart from the brass hub fan with its bent arm and the aluminium trans cover with the lettered pedals, it looks to me to be about 1918. The bits mentioned are earlier.

Allan from down under.

[Allan]

Now I have seen the photos on a bigger screen, can I change my mind? I was put off by the square felloe non demountable wheels, typical of the 1918 cars we have from Canada. Perhaps these are later replacements on a 1915-16 chassis.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Dozens of details to be looked at for actual correctness, however in general it appears to be basically a 1915 or 1916 chassis.
If you are wanting to build a Couplet for those years? Unless you already have most of an original body? That is a rather ambitious project? Very little about the 1915 into early 1917 couplet body is like the later 1917 or 1918 couplets. And pieces from the 1919 to 1923 coupes are even further removed from anything even close to what was used on the earlier cars.

That chassis could be a great start for a fine late brass model T.

[Humblej]

Yes, good building potential. Will the engine turn over and the engine serial number would be nice to know, but even without that, it looks like a good starting point for a project. If the price is right I would go for it.

[varmint]

If everything I see is working, then you could "drive" it within one day.
In some ways there's a lot more there than what I started with.
I hope this is a family project because it's going to take time.

[RecklessKelly]

Does that sign imply that it doesnt burn oil? Do you have the couplet body or are you just in love with the style? If you like speedsters, there is a speedster body posted in the for sale section.

[John kuehn]

When you don’t have the basic parts for a body of a certain type you want it’s going to an extended period of time finding them. The engine and chassis are the easier parts to find and the picture shown is a good start.

Open cars usually don’t take as long to build but the closed cars are a whole different deal especially the pre 1920 cars. Hopefully you can find the parts you want but the open cars body parts would be easier to find.

[GarJen127]

When you don’t have the basic parts for a body of a certain type you want it’s going to an extended period of time finding them. The engine and chassis are the easier parts to find and the picture shown is a good start.

Open cars usually don’t take as long to build but the closed cars are a whole different deal especially the pre 1920 cars. Hopefully you can find the parts you want but the open cars body parts would be easier to find.

I was wanting to make it into a coupelet because that’s my favorite brass era car, but I also love the look of early coupes. Did ford make a coupe in the brass era, or just the coupelet?

[Russ_Furstnow]

Garrett,
Ford made the Coupelet from 1915-1917. The 1915-1916 had a brass radiator, but both are quite unique. The chassis you have would work for a Coupelet restoration, as all chassis were the same regardless of the body style. Here are a couple of photos of my 1915 and my 1916 Coupelets. I hope this helps, RussFurstnow

[GarJen127]

could I use an old coupe body for a base and then attach the fabric to the outside thus making a Faux coupelet? Or does anyone make coupelet body kits?

[Wayne Sheldon]

Garrett J,
In case you do not know, Russ F is the hobby's top model T couplet expert! (And a fine human being!)

The 1915 T couplet is also one of my favorite of all model T factory offerings. They are rare, and have many unique to them parts. Some very good friends had one many years ago, but it was sadly destroyed in a garage fire.
At some time in the past, I considered trying to put one together, but instead, am happy having my 1915 runabout (also cute as a button!).

[Wayne Sheldon]

could I use an old coupe body for a base and then attach the fabric to the outside thus making a Faux coupelet? Or does anyone make coupelet body kits?

Only if you want a pile of junk that many people will laugh at behind your back and nobody will actually like?

While there are similarities in appearance?
Structurally they are very different, and the too many unique to the true couplet pieces short of an incredible amount of work cannot be made to look good.
"Anything made by the hands of man, can be remade by the hands of man." I don't know who first said that, or why they said it. But truer words?
Yes, it could be done. It could be badly done, with a lot of work. Or, with a great deal of effort it could be well done. And "some" pieces of later (1923 or earlier) coupes could be modified more easily than starting from scratch. However, in actuality, very little of any later coupe could be used to any advantage.

[GarJen127]

are there any plans or measurements of a coupelet frame? Does anyone on the forum have any experience with building T frames and bodies?

[Wayne Sheldon]

I really don't like being a "downer"? Or dashing other people's hopes or dreams? However, I have carefully replicated a lot more "one off" different pieces of antique automobiles than most people in the hobby. I have resurrected six model T speedsters using as much original era speedster pieces as I could (all a piece of cake compared to a 1915 T couplet!!!!), and made replacement parts for Studebakers, Paige, Pierce Arrow, and several other non Fords including a few cars almost nobody has ever heard of.
There is a big difference between something that sort of fits, and something that looks and works properly. And I know the 1915 model T cars including the couplet well enough to know how different it is.
To begin such a project, one would first need to become good friends with someone that owns one. A GOOD one. Just being able to see up close how things go together and function would make a huge difference in understanding what and how many parts should be done.

If what you want is something that looks cute from a distance? Get or put together a 1920ish coupe and put 1915/'16 fenders hood and radiator on it. I have seen a couple like that years ago. They look nice to people that don't know anything much about model Ts. A lot of people in the 1950s thought they were correct like that. But we know a lot more about model T history now than most people did in the 1950s. And if one were to do that now? One could "correct" the car into a 1920ish coupe after they got tired of the putdowns of the car.

One thing that gets discussed often on the AACA forums is bad restorations, and how sad it is when people years later get upset because they cannot get any decent offers for their creation. Not just model Ts. Actually many other cars are far worse. Wrong colors, wrong seats. wrong materials or style in the interiors? Often mean NO sale when the time comes later to move it along. Doing it right might cost a bit more? Or, often creating some awful self-style can cost a lot more than doing it right? But when it comes time to need or want to sell it? Often nobody wants to buy the ones that are done wrong.

[GarJen127]

With all of your wonderful feedback and information in mind, I think I'll try to build a roadster instead of a coupelet.

[Allan]

Wise choice Garret. Many of the body parts are the same as a tourer. and the turtle deck for the back is also easier to find, sometimes in really good order. Wayne is correct. they do look cute. they are not as practical as a tourer, but for anyone without a family to cater for they are a lot of fun. You can also add a pickup box on the back to carry stuff also.

Allan from down under.

[RecklessKelly]

Perhaps what you had in mind was a leatherback T coupe, which would be pretty neat. I like the leatherback Model A's, its that thick grain leather stuff that sets if off. People have built all kinds of bodies on T frames. Building your own might be kinda fun.

[big2bird]

You would be better off in the long run by buying a complete car. Far cheaper than buying parts and building one from scratch.

[GarJen127]

I would love to buy a complete car, but there super expensive here in California. Even a 23 touring will end up costing 7-10 thousand dollars! so I'd prefer to buy a chassis, or a project car and do some work on it instead of spending too much for one here in CA.

[Steve Jelf]

If a California car is too expensive, shop for one in a cheaper part of the country. A U-Haul rental trailer in unlikely to break the bank. I agree that a coupelet is likely to be a money pit that will exhaust both funds and patience.

Trailer rental from Phoenix to southern Kansas did not cost a fortune.

[Wayne Sheldon]

In the past two years, there have been a few 1914 to 1916 (late brass era) model Ts in fairly nice condition that did not sell quickly for $10K to $12K. These were all running and tourable touring cars or runabouts. Ed Archer had an original era 1913 built after-market delivery truck needing only a little work to begin driving it that he had a tough time selling for about $7000. Prices for most collector cars have softened a bit in the past two years. If I wasn't broke I would have bought Ed's little pickup. (It even had original era wire wheels that were worth a few dollars!)
If someone has some money to spend? Right now is a good time to buy a collector car to enjoy! Cars that need a little bit of work are not selling well. A lot of great deals can be had.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

7to 10 G’s is too high? Lordy I bought low and sold high 3 times in that exact range over 8 years ago.

[big2bird]

The author is 16 years old. That is about when I started.

[GarJen127]

How difficult is it to construct of buy a center door frame? I Know ford produced the center door starting in 1915

[Wayne Sheldon]

The 1915 Ford T center-door sedan is a totally unique one year only body. Less than a thousand were built originally, and probably less than twenty still exist. There are a handful of unrestored ones left in the world, mostly locked away in private collections with owners hoping to someday restore them. They come up for sale very rarely, and usually sell quickly and quietly. I haven't heard of any significant amount of a remaining body otherwise in a very long time.

There is an old saying, I don't know who said it originally. "That which was made by the hand of man can again be made by the hand of a man."
While there is a great deal of truth in that saying? Attempting to properly and faithfully recreate a 1915 model T Ford center-door sedan would be a huge undertaking. And anything less than "properly and faithfully" would wind up being a ridiculous and pointless mess.
A 1916 T center-door sedan however could be recreated using the later 1910s to 1921 body pieces. Many years ago, it was believed that there may not have been any 1916 models built originally. That question has been answered in more recent years, and proof has been revealed that some small number (actual number I doubt is known, and likely also less than a thousand) were actually produced. There are several existing that may have been actually produced as 1916 models. Unfortunately, there are a couple dozen recreations already of the 1916s, most of them badly done and quickly obvious as fakes to people that know the late brass era model Ts.
While the 1916 does look very similar to the 1915, and a beautiful car they are! I am not a big fan of making another fake.

[Mike Silbert]

As the owner of a '21 centerdoor I will attest to they are not an easy restoration or build. The 1915 centerdoor is a very unusual car, not recommended for a first restoration.

My general assessment of the scale of difficulty and cost of restorations. Actual results will vary greatly.
Easiest (cheapest):
Speedster - but could become the hardest and most expensive depending on how it is built
Roadsters & Roadster Pickups (26-27 easiest, brass hardest)
Tourings (26-27 easiest, brass hardest)
26-27 Sedans (less Wood but body parts can get pricey)
23-25 Closed Cars
17-22 Closed Cars
Brass Closed Cars
Torpedos
Town Cars and other rare models

I understand not having money to build cars, there is a lot of that in my history.
Build what you have, as best you can, and enjoy it.
Improve things when you get a chance but go have fun.
Don't get caught in the "it has to be perfect" trap and have it sit in pieces forever.
Better stuff will come along in the future and one of them will be a good fit for you.