New AC brakes available now?

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Fri May 31, 2024 11:53 am

After Larry Sidmore died there was talk of his tooling being bought and production of AC brakes being resumed. What is the status of that business now? Are the brakes available now? Is there contact information?

As I recall, when I bought a set of the brakes they didn't include all the connecting hardware, which was available from Richard Baughman. Is that still the situation, or do the brakes and extra hardware now come together? If the mounting equipment and the brakes are still separate deals, I'd like to get the contact info on the extra hardware too.

Post by **Original Smith** » Fri May 31, 2024 11:56 am

Keep in mind AC did not use rods! I don't know where people get all this misinformation?

namdc3 · Post by **namdc3** » Fri May 31, 2024 12:53 pm

I like Larry, but I also like to point this out every time he makes this generalized statement since he's such a stickler on doing your homework.

Steve, also attached is Daniel Bennett's contact information for current production.

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri May 31, 2024 1:01 pm

I love my AC brakes, I feel they have saved my bacon more than a few times.

Post by **modeltspaz** » Fri May 31, 2024 1:52 pm

If I recall correctly, Larry Sidmore, at one time, offered a complete kit including rods so the kit could be installed complete out of the box.
It was then decided by the two men making the components that they would not be sold as a kit to avoid liability. This way, neither vendors could be held responsible for product failure.
It's been awhile, but if I remember correctly, each kit, brakes and rods, came with a notice that the items contained within were for "DISPLAY PURPOSES ONLY" this was done as a definite C. Y. A. and in sue-happy California, I can't say that I blame them.
If I have recalled any of the above incorrectly, I apologize. Mr. Sidmore was a great guy. I spoke to him on several occasions at the Bakersfield meet when it was at the Kern County Fairgrounds. He is definitely missed.

Mike "modeltspaz" Spaziano.

Russ T Fender · Post by **Russ T Fender** » Fri May 31, 2024 3:38 pm

My AC brakes use rods and work just fine. The original set up was with cables which makes equalizing easier but the rods work great once they get set up correctly.

Dan McEachern · Post by **Dan McEachern** » Fri May 31, 2024 3:40 pm

Yes the original A-C brakes were connected to the equalizer assembly via cable. There was a short rod that ran from the brake pedal clamp to the equalizer assembly. The cable passed from each brake assembly through a pulley attached to the short rod and acted as an equalizer.

Larry Smith is not incorrect.

The Larry Sidmore version of the brakes were made to use a brake rod and clevis to attach to the rear brake assemblies. The original AC brake acutating arms were a steel stamping, not a casting, and had provision to clamp the cable ends.

namdc3 · Post by **namdc3** » Fri May 31, 2024 4:02 pm

The original A-C brochure I posted above shows that a yoke was used to equalize the rods. MOST A-C brakes used cables, just not all.

ThreePedalTapDancer · Post by **ThreePedalTapDancer** » Fri May 31, 2024 5:09 pm

They used something like this. Simple cable and pulley that is self-centering and equalizing.

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Post by **DHort** » Fri May 31, 2024 9:22 pm

Richard Baughman is no longer making any parts due to health problems unfortunately.

Post by **Quickm007** » Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:44 pm

Hey I'm so happy to heard another person make AC brake again, I will call him for sure. Thx for sharing

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 3:21 am

Hi,
I didn’t know who ended up with Larry Sidmore’s AC brake business.
I ended up with Richard Baughman’s drawings and fixtures just before Larry Sidmore passed. I used them to finish putting the AC brakes on a couple of my cars. I’ll get hold of Daniel Bennett and see if he wants to carry on with the rods and the linkage.
If not maybe some one else might want to do it.

Dodge

Jonathan.2909 · Post by **Jonathan.2909** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 12:59 pm

do these brakes use the exterior of the stock Ford brake hub or is there an accessory hub that needs to go on the rear wheels?

Post by **Original Smith** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 1:41 pm

The equalizer pictured above is Rocky Mountain. I used to have a NOS A.C. equalizer, but don't any more. It is smaller than the RM but does the same job. Someone must have an original AC unit?

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 3:30 pm

...do these brakes use the exterior of the stock Ford brake hub or is there an accessory hub that needs to go on the rear wheels?

Somebody can correct this if I have it wrong. I believe AC brakes squeeze the outside of the stock brake drum.

Dan McEachern · Post by **Dan McEachern** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 4:57 pm

They use the stock brake drum.

Post by **mortier** » Wed Dec 18, 2024 5:31 pm

I got my AC brakes from Daniel Bennett. He provided all the hardware and the special pedal. Unfortunately, I haven't yet installed them.

Post by **KimDobbins** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:48 pm

I have this set of original AC brakes, not sure if everything is here, someday I’ll get around to using them.

Post by **KWTownsend** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:38 pm

Kim,
Is that an AC brake pedal or a pedal from a different manufacturer?

Dan McEachern · Post by **Dan McEachern** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:16 pm

Keith's observation is correct- that is not an AC pedal. Original AC brakes used a clamp on bracket that installed on the pedal shank just above the pedal shaft to provide an attachment point for the rod that pulled the equalizer assembly. The pedal shown has a lower arm that pushes toward the rear- the wrong direction if used for AC brakes. Most pedals like this are used with an equalizer assembly that clamped around the emergency brake shaft such as Bennet brakes and the pivot point of the bracket reversed this push motion into a pull motion to operate the rear brakes.

Post by **KimDobbins** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:21 pm

The pedal says ROSS

Post by **dobro1956** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:51 pm

I'm going to chime in with my 2 cents worth of info. I have ran a set of original ACs on a car that was used quite a bit. And currently I have a set on my 1919 Speedster. I have ran and used a set of Repro Rockies for years with very good results, "till they did not work in reverse" and caused us to roll back on a hill and go off the side of the road flipping the car upside down. And I now have a set of Sure Stop disc brakes on that car. So with that said I believe I have pretty good experiance with the three major versions. So first I'll cover the ACs. The repro ACs and originals are basically exactly the same in function and quality. There only draw back is their small drum size. While they do function in forward or reverse I find them "underwhelming" as to stopping. They are better than the Ford transmission brake but are limited by their drum size. Due to the small steel drum they also "fade" very quickly. I do recommend them as being a better than Ford setup if you do not do a lot of driving or long tours. They are a good design and function well but do not expect miracles. Now on to the repro Rockies. In my opinion they are dangerous and give a false sense of security. While they do stop very well going forward, and can even lock up the wheels on blacktop, they are virtually useless in reverse. That is because the repro Rockies are not really Rockie Mountain Brakes. They are a combination of 26-27 style AC parts and redesigned braking geometry to put all the "self energizing" braking action to forward stopping. By moving the shoe pivot to the end of the shoe and not in the center as original Rockies or the AC brakes used, the redesign stole all the rear braking to make the forward braking be very good. The redesign was done way back in the aprox 70s when the repro Rockies were originally put on the market. I am really surprised that they are still made. There are many examples of accidents caused by rolling back on a hill. I used them for years on our 27 touring "tour car" We loged 1000s of miles with them. I thought they were great. I always thought I could grab the park brake if needed. The 26 27 has a lined park brake that holds well on a hill and can even work as a service brake in a pinch. But in the real world, grabbing the park brake does not really have a good chance of happening in the few seconds you actually have to do it. In our case from the time I stalled out and started rolling back till we were upside down in the ditch was about 7 seconds. The actual seconds of time I could have used to prevent the accident was 2 maybe 3 seconds. The rest of those seconds is when your life is passing before your eyes as you are having a very bad day. So with all that said, I do not recommend the repro Rockies at all. They are only giving a person a false sense of security and their archilles heel will possibly come out to hurt you. Now on to the Sure Stop disc brakes. This one is easy. I only have 2 negatives. One is looks and the other is price. They are a very good designed product, fairly easy to install, and does not modify the car at all if you use a repro brake pedal. They stop extremely well and even work when wet. If a person drives their car a lot, does long tours, or just want to be as safe as possible for you and your family, the Sure Stop Brakes are the only choice to give you as close to real brakes as possible. Price is what it is and nothing we can do about that. Looks is just something a person needs to decide on for themselves. They are more noticeable on wood spoke cars, but our 27 has wire wheels. By painting everything black except the rotor they are not as noticeable. OK, I used up my 2 cents worth. My main message is have fun and be as safe as we can ....

Post by **big2bird** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 7:10 pm

I believe these are the Rockies he is speaking of. The fella in Temecula made them.

Post by **speedytinc** » Thu Dec 19, 2024 8:04 pm

These are NOT the rockies from Temecula. The are an early copy or original set. They work forward & reverse due to the rear center anchor point for the brake band. Best brakes made. You are quite fortunate to have them.

Post by **big2bird** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:56 am

Correct. The guy in Downey.

I still have the equalizer I did not use.

Post by **jsaylor** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:06 pm

The reproduction "Rockies" come with this statement " Purchaser understands this product is to be used in addition to the standard brake system"

You should adjust the transmission brake to operate with the pedal about 1 inch above the floorboard, then adjust the RM to operate about 1 1/2 to 2 inches above the floorboard and you should be just fine. Trick is to be able to stop in reverse by pushing down hard on the brake." The reverse braking will be the transmission brake operating.

I know at one time there was a "Rocky Mountain" pedal with no cam with instructions to remove the internal brake band. That was a bad idea.

Post by **big2bird** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:30 pm

If all else fails, jamb on all 3 pedals. You'll stop, but stall the car. Better than a collision anytime.

haydonr · Post by **haydonr** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:58 pm

In relation to brake fade with reproduction AC brakes, a number of us here in New Zealand are using Hillman Avenger cast brake drums, that have been turned down to appropriate size. You need to redrill the hub bolt holes, but fundamentally the drums are a good size to make an equivalent to a T drum out of. I have no experience of AC brakes on original steel drums, but we haven't had any problems with our cast drums so far.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:16 pm

Haydon, I have cast Avenger drums on my 1917 shooting brake, courtesy of a friend in Dunedin. I left them with a ridge on the outside when i machined them smooth. This prevents the linings migrating off the drum. They work really well. It is time someone looked into making cast iron drums for Ts.

Allan from down under.

Post by **dobro1956** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:56 pm

The brakes shown above and instruction are original Rockies. Or they may be an exact copies of original Rockies. I'm unfamiliar with any exact copies that were made. They are a very good brake to have if a person is lucky enough to find an original set. Notice how the pivot point of the brake shoe is at the rear. By being at the rear 1/2 of the shoe "self energizes when going forward and the other 1/2 self energizes when going backward. That means your brakes are just as good in reverse as going forward. The current repro Rockies that have been sold for years never existed as a brake setup in the T era. They were a creation of the person who first offered them for sale. They are just a total redesign of a set of 26-27 AC brake castings that had the name Rockie Mountain Brakes added to the castings instead of the AC name. When the original redesign of current repro Rockies were made and designed to have the brake shoe mount at the front of the shoe to enable the entire shoe to be self energizing going forward was where the no brakes in reverse problem or "archilles heel" came about. Even though the original man who made and sold them had been made aware of the safety issue he just ignored everyone and kept selling them.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:42 am

Donnie - the instructions for the above Rockies from Culver, CA were produced by a fella by the name of Jack Sunderman or something to that effect - Larry Smith is knowledgeable about them also - I'm running a set on our '19 Centerdoor & another set on the shelf - exact copies but for the connections - rods instead of original cables.

Post by **modeltspaz** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:08 am

The address on the instruction sheet above is not Culver City. It reads: "9368 Farm Street, Downey, California 90241"
Really a shame those aren't still being made. I could have sent him a check and had him hand them over the back fence and give them to my friend that lives on the other side.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:24 am

My apologies - still on first cup of coffee !!!

Post by **big2bird** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:29 am

The 70's were great for Ts.

Model T Specialties

Chaffins Garage

Bill Rader

Rootlieb

Brassworks

Tony Manachi

Antique Ford Brakes

Jack Chidgey

All of them started in the 70s.

Post by **KimDobbins** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:44 pm

Steve, im pretty sure his name was Jack Sunderland. I visited him just before he moved to the mid west. He had a really nice 34 Ford roadster.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 5:39 pm

Thanks Kim - I knew it was close !

Post by **SurfCityGene** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 9:53 pm

Well I have to chime in now about brakes... I promised RDR, RIP, to continue his promoting Brakes on T's! For those that are newer reading Ralph Ricks was a huge fan and believer in Four Wheel brakes! In the past Long Beach was a hot bed of front wheel brakes on the Model T's. A Model T oldtimer here converted the Nash Metro brake system to all four wheels on several T's here locally. Humble Howard Genrich had two cars with them. His Lucky 7 Speedster and RDR's Yellow Speedster/ Picup also was Metro equipped. This worked Amazingly well and didn't look bad or obvious.

Any Model T with a properly adjusted brake band in good condition should be able to skid the rear wheels.... You can't do any better than that with just the back wheels!! Applying the hand brake is just an add on feature.

With the addition of any aux transmission like a Warford that may have a neutral you should have some kind of braking on the wheels! I decided after meeting RDR and driving his car to put some front brakes on my Torpedo and used the patent and sales drawings from the McNearney and Big Four to make some brakes like my Bennetts that I had on the rear. They work pretty good but don't compare to the hydraulics of the four wheel Metros.

I enjoy being able to say Period Correct with a laugh...
Drive safe and stop just quick enough!

Post by **modeltspaz** » Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:45 pm

The Long Beach Model T Club member that made the Nash Metropolitan/Model T brake conversions was a gentleman by the name of Orville Enyert. He did lots of "mods" to Model Ts.

Post by **Dan Hatch** » Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:06 am

Few years back I bought a bunch of stuff from an estate in Tn. This guy was building T hyd rears out of K car drums. I have the stuff, but don’t plan to do any for sale. If anyone interested I can post info. Dan

Post by **Mike Silbert** » Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:08 am

Dan,
I am always curious about different ideas and designs. I remember rear hydraulic brakes from years ago that are now gone. Not sure if these are the same ones I remember or not.
I would be interested is seeing the documentation.
Mike

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:27 am

They were called "Technibrake" or similar - I remember them advertised in the Vintage Ford magazine.

Dan McEachern · Post by **Dan McEachern** » Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:30 pm

Here you go:
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/2 ... 1193146987

Post by **Chris Instness** » Sun Dec 22, 2024 11:40 pm

These are Technicore brakes. They have their pros and cons. Probably the biggest pro is that they are very discreet hydraulic brakes in that other than the line running into the backing plate they look very much like stock rear brakes. They also use a cast iron drum which dissipates heat well. This car is regularly driven in hills and in traffic and has never had a problem with the brakes fading. They do work in reverse and it is also nice to not have extra brake rods rattling. Probably the most obvious con would be the small amount of braking surface. They stop my roadster pretty well but I’m not sure they are well suited for heavier 4 door sedans and such. I can lock up the tires if I really stomp on them, however, in my experience larger drum Rockies will stop better. They also take a lot of pedal pressure, much more than cars with Rockies or Sure stop brakes. Their other fault is that things like wheel cylinders that were made specific for this application and are no longer available so sometimes you have to hope what you have is rebuildable.

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:19 am

jsaylor wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:06 pm
The reproduction "Rockies" come with this statement " Purchaser understands this product is to be used in addition to the standard brake system"

You should adjust the transmission brake to operate with the pedal about 1 inch above the floorboard, then adjust the RM to operate about 1 1/2 to 2 inches above the floorboard and you should be just fine. Trick is to be able to stop in reverse by pushing down hard on the brake." The reverse braking will be the transmission brake operating.

I know at one time there was a "Rocky Mountain" pedal with no cam with instructions to remove the internal brake band. That was a bad idea.

I am pretty sure Bennett made a pedal like that, also the Pikes Peak pedal.

Post by **DanTreace** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:58 am

Mike Silbert wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:08 am
Dan,
I am always curious about different ideas and designs. I remember rear hydraulic brakes from years ago that are now gone. Not sure if these are the same ones I remember or not.
I would be interested is seeing the documentation.
Mike

Here was the c.1970 adv. BTW, $765 was a lot back then, over $4000 today.

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Post by **Original Smith** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:05 pm

The guy that originally reproduced the Rocky Mountain brakes name is Jack Sunderlin. I knew him well and have some of his stuff on one of my cars.
He did live in Downey on Farm St. He had little mechanical ability, but lots of resources to do things. Where he really messed up, was he assumed wrongly the Bennett equalizer, which used rods would work. What a mistake! I have never fallen for that, and have always used authentic Rocky Mountain parts on all of my T's.