Timer Roller condition ?

[Retro54]

Good day. I have a few timer rollers and was wondering how do you tell if they are good to clean up and keep as spares and use and when they are just scrap.

My assumption is that if they roll relatively freely and the roller does not have a groove in it, then it should be good. Would appreciate any good rules of thumb that people might have.

Thank you in advance.

Andy

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

They are used up when the roller gets very sloppy on the pin. Also, when the roller diameter becomes tapered, grooved, or reduced in diameter. Best way to determine is to compare to a new one.

[Steve Jelf]

Leave it to me to point out the obvious.
More than the roller needs to be in good condition for a timer to work properly.

[John kuehn]

After a while mechanical things wear out. Your timer roller is just about there. I think you ought to buy you a new reproduction Roller timer or a New Day timer. Model T owners have their preference for either or both. Some like the Anderson timer which is good too. As Steve J mentioned your timer itself is probably worn out too besides your roller. Does your roller have Ford on it? Purists like those for the originality and sometimes repair them.

[Retro54]

They are used up when the roller gets very sloppy on the pin. Also, when the roller diameter becomes tapered, grooved, or reduced in diameter. Best way to determine is to compare to a new one.

Makes sense to me. Thank you Jerry. I'll just need to look for spec. On the diameter of a new one... I have more than this one. JUST was closest for reference photo.

[Retro54]

After a while mechanical things wear out. Your timer roller is just about there. I think you ought to buy you a new reproduction Roller timer or a New Day timer. Model T owners have their preference for either or both. Some like the Anderson timer which is good too. As Steve J mentioned your timer itself is probably worn out too besides your roller. Does your roller have Ford on it? Purists like those for the originality and sometimes repair them.

Thank you John. You might be reading into my question a little... I have maybe 30 spares that are clean and appear serviceable. Just was asking for some points of what to look for to make sure they are serviceable and good to use.

[Retro54]

I should have stated more clearly earlier... I have some spares.. 30+... just really asking to see how to tell whether they are good ones or bad ones...

[Retro54]

After a while mechanical things wear out. Your timer roller is just about there. I think you ought to buy you a new reproduction Roller timer or a New Day timer. Model T owners have their preference for either or both. Some like the Anderson timer which is good too. As Steve J mentioned your timer itself is probably worn out too besides your roller. Does your roller have Ford on it? Purists like those for the originality and sometimes repair them.

And yes, some of the brass and steel rollers have Ford in them, others appear to be close to the Ford, but aftermarket production.

[RecklessKelly]

I see two that look a little iffy. Good or bad? If the roller doesnt have excessive play and its not worn uneven, if the spring action is smooth and the pivots seen firm with a little twisting action, its clean and not pitted, should be a good one.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

At least 5 or 6 are toast. Any others need eyes & hands on to tell.

[Retro54]

I see two that look a little iffy. Good or bad? If the roller doesnt have excessive play and its not worn uneven, if the spring action is smooth and the pivots seen firm with a little twisting action, its clean and not pitted, should be a good one.

Thank you, that all makes sense to me.

Andy

[A Whiteman]

With your supply of spares, if one does not work, you can try another

[TXGOAT2]

All the parts of the timer rotor must be in good condition for it to work as it should. In addition, the spring tension needs to be correct and the timer cover that the roller runs on needs to be in good condition, and the entire assembly needs to be kept clean and properly lubricated with a suitable lubricant, and the timer cover needs to be concentric with the camshaft center. There are no non-essential parts in the timer assembly, and any worn or dirty or mis-adjusted parts will cause degraded engine performance.

[TRDxB2]

My picks for the trash bin

[Retro54]

My picks for the trash bin

Agreed, was thinking those grooves indicated a lot of wear has occurred.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

What became of that business about replacing the standard roller with ( 2 I believe ) small ball roller bearings. Side by side to take up the space of the original solid roller. I seem to remember this being discussed years ago.

[Allan]

Charlie, it is not a good idea. Ball bearings need two hardened stationary races within which the balls roll. In a timer roller the outer cage is not stationary. It is not made to operate in the manner expected of it in a timer. The outer race wears quickly and considerably, as does the timer case in which it runs. It does get around roller wear on the pin, but causes wear problems elsewhere. I know this to be true, having gone down that route myself.

Allan from down under.

[DanTreace]

.. I have some spares.. 30+... just really asking to see how to tell whether they are good ones or bad ones...

Just one picture to assist, this roller was causing intermittent higher speed misses, the T was running real rough on tour. So much so the driver had to slow down, finally pulled over and we investigated issues. Checked coils, checked switch, etc, etc, before going to the timer case and pulling it. The roller was as shown, too much wear debris causing the rough surface, was not smooth and shiny as the roller surface should be.

(spring removed for other uses)

Replaced with a new spare, and the T ran great after that.

[Retro54]

.. I have some spares.. 30+... just really asking to see how to tell whether they are good ones or bad ones...

Just one picture to assist, this roller was causing intermittent higher speed misses, the T was running real rough on tour. So much so the driver had to slow down, finally pulled over and we investigated issues. Checked coils, checked switch, etc, etc, before going to the timer case and pulling it. The roller was as shown, too much wear debris causing the rough surface, was not smooth and shiny as the roller surface should be.


rough roller surface.jpg
(spring removed for other uses)

Replaced with a new spare, and the T ran great after that.

Fascinating! Very helpful Dan. Starting to wonder if this stash is got my hands on was a collection of rollers whose time had passed.... lol. Very helpful.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

What became of that business about replacing the standard roller with ( 2 I believe ) small ball roller bearings. Side by side to take up the space of the original solid roller. I seem to remember this being discussed years ago.

It turns out that the bearing balls do not really make great electrical contact between the inner and outer bearing races. Maybe not very noticeable in performance, but it's the cause of arcing between the balls & races. The arcing eventually erodes and wears away at the balls and races until the whole bearing becomes a sloppy mess.

[TXGOAT2]

I would not be in a rush to throw any of them away. They take up little space, and any of them could be reconditioned. Pre-WWII, Made In USA auto parts, in any condition, get scarcer every day.

[Retro54]

I would not be in a rush to throw any of them away. They take up little space, and any of them could be reconditioned. Pre-WWII, Made In USA auto parts, in any condition, get scarcer every day.

Ohhh, don't worry, i won't melt them down for bullion... they will look good on a shelf. Honestly, i want to make sure I have a couple spares for each of the family Model T's, and then what I have left over, I plan on making available to others. Not in a hurry for that either, just that Dad and I are doing some winter T Maintenance, and I want to go through what I have and get the spares figured out. ha.

[Allan]

Jerry, you hit on the second reason the ball races failed in timer conversions. I was a ware of it, but do you think i could recall it?

We had a bearing company rep give a talk at our old car club one time. He related a story about repeated failures of U joint bearings on a particular series of new Volvo trucks. They were getting repeated failures in less than 20 000miles on the intermediate U joint between the engine and the final drive shaft. It wasn't happening in Europe. It turns out that on RHD trucks the battery pack was grounded on the opposite frame rail to the battery pack. When they switched the ground cables to the other frame rail, the problem was solved. Electrical erosion was the problem.

Allan from down under.