Clutch neutral holder

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
LittleTimmy52
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2025 4:41 pm
First Name: Lucas
Last Name: Milatti
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Model T Touring
Location: Saint cloud FL
Board Member Since: 2025

Clutch neutral holder

Post by LittleTimmy52 » Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:15 am

I don't know the proper term for this piece but it's that curved metal piece on the brake lever that holds the clutch in neutral when pulled back to 90° or fully back. Mine appears to be worn out. Is it supposed to be like that? It looks like the bolt has eaten into it is there a way I can fix this or do I have to replace that whole bar?
IMG_20250202_111146.jpg
IMG_20250202_111204.jpg

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:07 pm

Weld up the worn area and grind back to shape. Next bend the cam over so it is more centered under the adjustment bolt. After you get that done take that bolt out, grind the head to round over the edges and reinstall with the head down. That give more riding surface area. Part of the wear is coming from not holding the clutch pedal down and dragging the adjustment bolt across the cam when you pull the parking brake handle back. Also when you pull the parking brake lever back, squeeze the handle so the pawl does not drag across the teeth on the quadrant.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup


speedytinc
Posts: 4725
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by speedytinc » Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:09 pm

The adjuster's contact should be centered on the cam face. The question is why its not. Is there excessive side play in the clutch throw out? Loose throwout arms inside the transmission? If there is minimal side shaft movement, a simple bend to the arm to center the adjuster bold may be all you need.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3812
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘12 open express,'23 cutoff, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by DanTreace » Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:12 pm

That part is the speed lever, it is on the control shaft.

The angle of yours can be fixed, as it is tilted now, just use a pipe wrench, on that part and bring it back to straight so that the adjusting screw can glide on the center of the lever.

IMG_4229.jpg

One other way to prevent the bolt end from gouging into the lever is to reverse the bolt. Grind the edges a bit round and the larger surface makes pulling the hand lever easier.


IMG_0006.jpeg
IMG_0006.jpeg (101.11 KiB) Viewed 5832 times

neutral2 (800x600).jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Allan
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Allan » Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:13 pm

Your cam is twisted so the bolt runs off rather than consistently along the cam surface. That can easily be fixed with a large adjustable wrench. If you bend the cam arm to align it with the bolt, the cam surface will be at a slight angle to the bolt. I would rather tweak the arm on the clutch cross shaft to centre the bolt on the cam surface. That is easily done cold with two adjustable wrenches. Fit one wrench over the arm and use a larger second one over the jaws of the first as you bending lever.
I too fit the adjusting bolt head down. Just radius the edges of the hex on the head to make a ramp to engage on the cam.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Norman Kling
Posts: 4634
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:49 pm

A lot of things can be the cause. The parking brake sever and shaft are bolted to the frame. The engine and hogs head are connected to the crankcase. So if the frame is bent and sags on one side, or if the crankcase is bent either of these conditions can alter the position of the cam to the bolt. or something such as wear on the cam from years of pulling it it back.
Norm


OilyBill
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by OilyBill » Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:20 am

I have always considered this SINGLE FEATURE as being absolutely the roughest and crudest thing on any Model T Ford. That should have been a forked roller of some type. It is the ONLY thing that makes me wince when operating the car. :(

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 5171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Feb 03, 2025 11:18 am

I agree Bill but it was the least costly ! Here's what I use - master machinist T buddy of mine made a few.
Attachments
clutch bolt roller.JPG

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Feb 03, 2025 11:26 am

RajoRacer wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2025 11:18 am
I agree Bill but it was the least costly ! Here's what I use - master machinist T buddy of mine made a few.
Perhaps made from old Ruckstell parts?
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup


Dan Hatch
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Dan Hatch » Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:04 pm

Must have been a problem back in the day. Here are a couple NOS ones in my parts drawer.
Nor for the faint of heart to replace.
IMG_4222.jpeg

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3812
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘12 open express,'23 cutoff, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by DanTreace » Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:46 pm

OilyBill wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:20 am
I have always considered this SINGLE FEATURE as being absolutely the roughest and crudest thing on any Model T Ford. That should have been a forked roller of some type. It is the ONLY thing that makes me wince when operating the car. :(


Ford did use a roller on the speed lever, on the Two Pedal early cars. ;)

In true Henry design fashion, saving costs when going to the 3 Pedal, the roller got lost in cost savings :P

100_8993 (500x375).jpg
100_8993 (500x375).jpg (125.98 KiB) Viewed 5384 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


OilyBill
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by OilyBill » Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:29 pm

Wish he had kept that on the later Model T's! Other than THAT SINGLE FEATURE, most of Ford's design work is pretty good.


Allan
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by Allan » Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:33 am

It is cheap, cheaper than the second design using a casting, worked well on >14 million cars, and only causes grief when it is damaged somehow. What's not to like about that? Now, if you were to talk about timers.........

Allan from down under.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Clutch neutral holder

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Feb 06, 2025 10:15 am

Hold the left pedal in "neutral", then move the lever to "neutral", or pull it all the way back to park. That will eliminate most all wear on the bolt and cam face. Hold the little ratchet lever back when moving the hand lever so the ratchet won't wear.
Wipe the dirt off the parts once in a while and apply a little white grease to the cam. Everything on a Model T that moves needs some lubrication.

The steel bands used with pallets and crates are hard and slick. Forming a piece of it to fit the cam face and bolting or pop riveting it in place might eliminate most wear and make lubrication redundant.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic