Magneto woes… turned into clutch disk woes...

[WillyR]

Magneto has been running fine for the first and last 1,000 miles in my 24 coupe.

For the first time ever the engine is dying when switching to mag.

I started the car on battery 3 times, switched to mag and the engine died.

Then on the way home driving on battery I switched to mag on a clear straightaway and she died so I switched back to battery for the rest of the ride home.

Got her in the garage switched to mag and she died.

Never had the slightest inkling of a problem prior.

Are we thinking the switch is bad?

What else would cause a sudden loss of magneto?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

What else would cause a sudden loss of magneto?

Band lint accumulating on the mag post. Remove the mag post and have a look...

[Steve Jelf]

The first thing I would look for is a loose or disconnected wire. Second suspect is a defective ignition switch. The magneto is always producing current when the car is running. With the car running on BAT, use a meter to check output at the mag post.

[George House]

…. but an analog meter - a digital volt meter won’t be accurate for this test.

[John.Zibell]

Just a reminder, set the meter to read AC voltage.

[WillyR]

I adjusted the bands when I first got her and there were no fibres in the screen, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any on the post.


I’m so unfamiliar with the mag system I need to figure out where the post is.

I do not have an analog meter, any recommendations on brand and model?

I’m enjoying buying specialty tools.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I adjusted the bands when I first got her and there were no fibres in the screen, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any on the post.


I’m so unfamiliar with the mag system I need to figure out where the post is.

I do not have an analog meter, any recommendations on brand and model?

I’m enjoying buying specialty tools.

Forget the electrical tests for now. Confirm that there's no band lint issue. The mag post sits at the very top of the hogshead and has the magneto power wire attached to it. The post will be held on with 3 slotted head screws, (unless your car is a 26/27).

Here is a pic showing the mag post and how it contacts the magneto coil ring. (The hogshead has been cut away for clarity)

It's also possible that you have a mag post with an accessory oil pick-up. Like this...
They can be troublesome at times as well...

[Dan Hatch]

Here is a link to the best tool for testing your mag.
viewtopic.php?t=45508

[WillyR]

Here is a link to the best tool for testing your mag.
viewtopic.php?t=45508

I adjusted the bands when I first got her and there were no fibres in the screen, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any on the post.


I’m so unfamiliar with the mag system I need to figure out where the post is.

I do not have an analog meter, any recommendations on brand and model?

I’m enjoying buying specialty tools.

Forget the electrical tests for now. Confirm that there's no band lint issue. The mag post sits at the very top of the hogshead and has the magneto power wire attached to it. The post will be held on with 3 slotted head screws, (unless your car is a 26/27).

Here is a pic showing the mag post and how it contacts the magneto coil ring. (The hogshead has been cut away for clarity)


mag.png


It's also possible that you have a mag post with an accessory oil pick-up. Like this...
They can be troublesome at times as well...

mag2.png

I do have the oil pickup line, I’ll be checking that in a minute or two.

Ohh yeah an expensive testing tool!

I’ll add that to my list of things to buy…

I think Henry doesn’t want me to have extra coils, a ruckstell, and an I-timer….

[J1MGOLDEN]

You can make yourself a small test light with a 12 Volt bulb, a socket and two wires with alligator clips on the ends.

Clip one wire on the Mag Post and one wire on a bare spot on the engine.

Then, start the engine and the bulb should light.

If the bulb lights, follow the wire through the connections, etc.

Most bulbs burn out with 18 Volts, so if that happens you have a good Magneto with a bad contact, wire, ignition switch, or coil box connection.

[WillyR]

There were a couple loose connections on the electrical block on the firewall but no loose connections at the switch.

No band material on the mag post.

End of the video shows what she’s doing after checking that so far.

So it looks like I’m pin type switch, is there anything I can fix by taking it apart? Or will I have parts flying? If I take it apart?



The video…

https://youtu.be/nFl7qsNkwUQ?feature=shared

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It's not likely to be the switch... but not impossible either. Try the tests that others have mentioned for electrical output from the magneto. Take the voltage measurements directly off of the mag post. (You can be running on battery while you check out the magneto output) That removes the switch from the equation and goes directly to the source. If you have power from the mag, then go to the next point in the circuit and look for power there. Somewhere along the line you'll find the "break" and therefore, the issue.

[WillyR]

This is what I have at my disposal right now

A Klein mm400

Here are the specs for it..

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/mult ... nging-600v




What setting should I have the meter set to? How do I set it to ac?

[speedytinc]

Thats a DIGITAL meter. You need an ANALOG meter.

[WillyR]

Thats a DIGITAL meter. You need an ANALOG meter.

Well, carp…

I made a test light and checked it on a 12v battery.

I got no light checking my magneto.

I’m going back to verify I don’t have a bad ground.

But no light means what?

[speedytinc]

Means dead magneto OR band fuzz has made a loss of connection. Remove the contact post yet?
If actually dead, you likely put DC voltage to the mag while running. Typically a switch problem.

[Dan Hatch]

Start with basic.
Set meter to read ohms.
Remove wire from contact post on hogs head.
Put one lead to post other to ground.
Should read about .5 ohm. If less or zero mag is shorted to ground.
If no reading or high ohm . Remove contact post and put lead on the coil contact.
See what reading you get.
Again looking for about .5 ohm.
I have seen those outside oil post short to ground too.
Look at the elbow and see if it screws in too deep and hits post.

[Norman Kling]

One common cause not posted above is loose rear main bearing on engine. The thrust surface worn on the rear side toward the flywheel. Try this. run for a while with the front of the engine elevated. Then turn off the engine and take a pry bar between the front crankshaft pulley and the front of the engine. If the crankshaft moves forward it will move the magnets farther from the coils which will cause less current to flow. Best cure is to re-pour the babbitt in the rear bearing, at least in the cap. Sometimes a temporary fix would be a shim made for insert between the cap and the rear flange of the crankshaft.
Norm

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Start with basic.
Set meter to read ohms.
Remove wire from contact post on hogs head.
Put one lead to post other to ground.
Should read about .5 ohm. If less or zero mag is shorted to ground.
If no reading or high ohm . Remove contact post and put lead on the coil contact.
See what reading you get.
Again looking for about .5 ohm.
I have seen those outside oil post short to ground too.
Look at the elbow and see if it screws in too deep and hits post.

What he said ^^^

[Dan Hatch]

Willy : If I can help email me by the forum. Dan

[WillyR]

Start with basic.
Set meter to read ohms.
Remove wire from contact post on hogs head.
Put one lead to post other to ground.
Should read about .5 ohm. If less or zero mag is shorted to ground.
If no reading or high ohm . Remove contact post and put lead on the coil contact.
See what reading you get.
Again looking for about .5 ohm.
I have seen those outside oil post short to ground too.
Look at the elbow and see if it screws in too deep and hits post.

Starts at .5 ohm and quickly down to .1 ohm


CORRECTION!!! SEE NEXT POST!!!!!


Elbow inside the body, pin has a slight bend I the direction of angina rotation but moves freely

[WillyR]

Ok here is where something is weird.

Testing the ohm.

Unhooked the wire, tested and got .1 ohm.

Removed the unit to check to see if the elbow was protruding into the body.

Curious as to what the pin was riding on I stick my finger into the hole in the hogshead.

I see something shiny and pin like (needle bearing)? And I touch it and it falls into the pan.

I reassemble and check the ohms and it is reading .5-.6 ohms.

I start the car and use the test light and it shines right up.

Switch the key to mag and it functions like it should.

Question, what the hell was the metal thing?

Where did it come from?

Am I dropping the pan to find it? What’s my next step?

[Dan Hatch]

Sounds like something was shorting out the mag. You got lucky!
BUT what was it?
It may have gone to bottom of pan. Or is stuck to the magnets.
I would drain oil and see if can feel it at drain hole.
If you got a bore scope look in transmission and see if can find it. Dan

[Line_Noise]

Scrap of safety wire or cotter pin? Especially if recent transmission work was done, that would also explain what appears to be brass particles in the last photo you posted.

[WillyR]

Scrap of safety wire or cotter pin? Especially if recent transmission work was done, that would also explain what appears to be brass particles in the last photo you posted.

Sounds like something was shorting out the mag. You got lucky!
BUT what was it?
It may have gone to bottom of pan. Or is stuck to the magnets.
I would drain oil and see if can feel it at drain hole.
If you got a bore scope look in transmission and see if can find it. Dan

Cotter pin could be a possibility, I did hear it drop to the bottom of the pan, I think I’ll change the oil tonight and see if I can find the piece. There isn’t any brass I can see in the oil, it was some kind of reflection because of the flash. I’ll be hyper critical of the oil when I change it in a few minutes.

I don’t have a bore scope, I’m just barely getting by with my mismatched set of metric wrenches.

I do believe that is the weirdest automotive experience I have ever had, and used to own volkswagens.

[Allan]

My mate says the weirdest thing about Volkswagens is the driver/owner! That from a fellow who was a complete Morris mini fanatic.

Allan from down under.

[WillyR]

Oil changed, no metallic look to the oil.


This is what came out, it doesn’t feel as heavy as it sounded when it fell.

There is a shiny spot than made me think it was cylindrical for the 8/10ths of a second I visualized it…

Not sure why the trend, but there is a banana for scale…

Started it again and switched to mag and it functioned like it always has…

[Line_Noise]

That looks like a piece of clutch lug shoe from the brake drum.

[WillyR]

That looks like a piece of clutch lug shoe from the brake drum.

I’ll have to look up what that is and if I should have some short term worries about it.

It is completely flat, the shiny spot was visible through the hole in the hogshead the rest is darker.

[Line_Noise]

Found a thread viewtopic.php?f=2&p=188487&t=24557 from owner who found similar.

Your car is 1924 though, the shoes started in 1926. Could they have been added?

[WillyR]

Found a thread viewtopic.php?f=2&p=188487&t=24557 from owner who found similar.

Your car is 1924 though, the shoes started in 1926. Could they have been added?

November 24 with 25 body features, I’m pretty sure the engine/trans rebuild was done with many of the original parts. Except drive drum replaced, z head and aluminum pistons. Not much else added.

Who knows what Henry did when no one was looking…

[Craig Leach]

Hi Wilhelm,
How thick is that piece? could be a piece of clutch plate or clutch lug shoe but I think they are different thicknesses. I have had clutch plates
crack & fracture into pieces much like that. Do you have a trans screen with a magnet in it? That was were I found my clutch pieces. Plates
& shoes are hard enough to reek havoc on triple & drive gears.
Craig.

[WillyR]

Hi Wilhelm,
How thick is that piece? could be a piece of clutch plate or clutch lug shoe but I think they are different thicknesses. I have had clutch plates
crack & fracture into pieces much like that. Do you have a trans screen with a magnet in it? That was were I found my clutch pieces. Plates
& shoes are hard enough to reek havoc on triple & drive gears.
Craig.

It’s fairly thin, I’ll check it with my micro-meter tomorrow. I’ll need to fix it since I used it to remove my drain plug. It’s a pretty shittu adjustable wrench.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Don't know if it will help, but could you post a few close-up images of the "thing"?

[jsaylor]

For a god general purpose analog meter check this one out at Lowes.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gardner-Bender ... 5002179327

[Dan Hatch]

Is it steel, aluminum or (hopefully not) Babbitt?

[WillyR]

For a god general purpose analog meter check this one out at Lowes.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gardner-Bender ... 5002179327

that's a bit more reasonably priced I may have to pick one up.

[WillyR]

Hi Wilhelm,
How thick is that piece? could be a piece of clutch plate or clutch lug shoe but I think they are different thicknesses. I have had clutch plates
crack & fracture into pieces much like that. Do you have a trans screen with a magnet in it? That was were I found my clutch pieces. Plates
& shoes are hard enough to reek havoc on triple & drive gears.
Craig.

Don't know if it will help, but could you post a few close-up images of the "thing"?

Is it steel, aluminum or (hopefully not) Babbitt?

Having trouble getting focused close ups

It’s magnetic steel

I do have a trans screen and magnets. I’ll pull that tonight and see if I caught anything

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Maybe try backing away a bit with the camera/phone and then zooming in??


Is it hard steel? Can you file it, or will a file not "bite"? If you try to bend it, will it take the bend, or just spring back?

There are not a lot of thin metal parts inside your motor. I almost want to say that it's a piece of broken off transmission band, but I'm not sure how such a fragment would break away like that. Another thought is a piece of a high-speed clutch disc.

[WillyR]

Maybe try backing away a bit with the camera/phone and then zooming in??


Is it hard steel? Can you file it, or will a file not "bite"? If you try to bend it, will it take the bend, or just spring back?

There are not a lot of thin metal parts inside your motor. I almost want to say that it's a piece of broken off transmission band, but I'm not sure how such a fragment would break away like that. Another thought is a piece of a high-speed clutch disc.

Witchcraft and alchemy

It is quite hard, I doubt it would bend without breaking and a file would have little effect.

[speedytinc]

Piece of clutch disk.

[WillyR]

I am recalling events of that day, and this is how it happened.

I was pulling into a car show, on mag, looking for a parking spot. low band....

The car dies, and I'm not sure why, figured user error, so I switch back to battery and re-started.

I must not have switched back to mag and continued to park.

a few hours later when I go to start it it dies when switching to mag.



...by the way I had soldered wires directly to both terminals of an 1157 bulb since I didn't have a spare socket.

after I knocked the metal piece loose and got the test light to function, I did burn out both filaments of the test bulb....

[speedytinc]

"I did burn out both filaments of the test bulb...."
Excellent.

[WillyR]

"I did burn out both filaments of the test bulb...."
Excellent.

my son commented on how brightly it burned.....

[Dan Hatch]

Is it cast iron or steel?

[Craig Leach]

Hi Vilhelm,
Had the same part show up in my screen back in 2023 & decided to pull the engine this is what I found

IMG_2393.jpg (13.92 KiB) Viewed 12821 times

IMG_2419.jpg (54.23 KiB) Viewed 12821 times

IMG_2423.jpg (47.21 KiB) Viewed 12821 times

IMG_2424.jpg (50.35 KiB) Viewed 12821 times

I attribute this to my own fault, when I filed the clutch lugs with a square file I made the lugs tapered to the center, there for putting all of the
load on the very tip of the notch in the plates instead if evenly spread over the flat. My solution is to grind opposite sides of the square file so
the none cutting edge rests on the curve of the hub holding the cutting edge square. Thusly finding out that trying to saving money by not buying
a new hub the more labor intensive route. And the clutch worked just fine so don't let that fool ya.
Craig.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Yup. I'd say clutch disc, 100%.

Sorry dude...

[CatGuy]

Just wondering, for myself, is it possible to have a failure on the magneto itself? I know mine doesn't work, but I have a few things, as mentioned to check.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Just wondering, for myself, is it possible to have a failure on the magneto itself? I know mine doesn't work, but I have a few things, as mentioned to check.

Yes, absolutely possible.

[Dan Hatch]

Look up magnet recharge in car. No the best but it works, done it many times.
Tinkering Tips has a good way to do it.

[WillyR]

I just cleaned the screen less than 200 miles ago.

There was a little bit of metal on the magnets nothing like this there is a metallic sludge all over the magnets.




Had it for just over 6 weeks

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

That's an oil dipper from the bottom of one of your connecting rods. Good that you found it! Remove the oil pan inspection cover and you'll immediately see where it came from. As for the metallic fuzz, that's normal.

[Dan Hatch]

Pull the screen and look at drums.
Also pull the bottom cover and see what took out the dipper.
When you go back, don’t use reproduction clutch disc. Never had any luck with them. Go with 400 disc and original large disc.
If you have to replace brake drum get one with replacement lugs.

[speedytinc]

Your magnet is on the wrong side of the screen!!!
The magnet fits in the screen trough on top.
The way you have it makes it likely to fall into the transmission.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Your magnet is on the wrong side of the screen!!!
The magnet fits in the screen trough on top.
The way you have it makes it likely to fall into the transmission.

I think they're in the right place. They seem to be smaller magnets than we're used to seeing and are obscured by the fuzz.

[WillyR]

Pull the screen and look at drums.
Also pull the bottom cover and see what took out the dipper.
When you go back, don’t use reproduction clutch disc. Never had any luck with them. Go with 400 disc and original large disc.
If you have to replace brake drum get one with replacement lugs.

First, watch your language...

That's an oil dipper from the bottom of one of your connectiong rods. Good that you found it! Remove the oil pan inspection cover and you'll immediately see where it came from. As for the metallic fuzz, that's normal.

yes, apologies, and edited.

the drums and bands from the trans cover seem fine, should I attempt to rotate and further inspect?

this is the second time I have inspected the magnets, and first time was more of a black iron filing look this time is more silvery fuzz, and a bit more, so that had me worried.

I was almost expecting more of the same hardened steel pieces like the first one.

I'll get the oil pan inspection cover off tonight and see what is going on there..

the crud in the first two pics looks to be some band material and a wisp of silicone.

What parts should I be buying?

the dipper set is $22

looks like the clutch disk set is about $200 with a couple different options.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

When you go back, don’t use reproduction clutch disc. Never had any luck with them. Go with 400 disc and original large disc.

Original Ford discs, in good condition, are also an excellent option. I feel that they tend to be more "bullet-proof". Others prefer the Turbo 400 discs, which is fine. If you go with the Turbo 400 discs, then be sure to use the proper high strength clutch spring.

[WillyR]

Your magnet is on the wrong side of the screen!!!
The magnet fits in the screen trough on top.
The way you have it makes it likely to fall into the transmission.

I think they're in the right place. They seem to be smaller magnets than we're used to seeing and are obscured by the fuzz.

Your magnet is on the wrong side of the screen!!!
The magnet fits in the screen trough on top.
The way you have it makes it likely to fall into the transmission.

they are small neodymium magnets, I added some bar magnets across the top of those for more surface area without blocking the mesh.

[WillyR]

When you go back, don’t use reproduction clutch disc. Never had any luck with them. Go with 400 disc and original large disc.

Original Ford discs, in good condition, are also an excellent option. I feel that they tend to be more "bullet-proof". Others prefer the Turbo 400 discs, which is fine. If you go with the Turbo 400 discs, then be sure to use the proper high strength clutch spring.

OK so this is the original set?

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3328-9S.aspx

and this looks to be a 10% stronger sppring

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3340.aspx

it looks like I would have to piece together the turbo 400 set

8 of these...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3329DIS.aspx

13 of these...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3328-9S.aspx

and this gasket set...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3416GS.aspx


I may or may not be able to replace the clutch disks in the car? look like some say yes some say no...?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

OK so this is the original set?

That's the original "STYLE". They are new. Dan states that he has had no luck with them. I have never used new ones, so I can't say. I have always looked for good, original, used discs.

[WillyR]

OK so this is the original set?

That's the original "STYLE". They are new. Dan states that he has had no luck with them. I have never used new ones, so I can't say. I have always looked for good, original, used discs.

I'm not sure I have time for that, maybe the turbo 400 set then......



I'm seeing how the con rod dippers are attached.... I'm nervous about what tore it off...

[WillyR]

I swear this car knows when payday rolls around.....

[Dan Hatch]

When I say bad luck, I installed a couple sets in customer engines. Had a great neutral. Few miles later no neutral. Pulled down, disc were all warped.
Now that was a few years ago, problem May have been fixed.
But once burned, twice something?

[WillyR]

When I say bad luck, I installed a couple sets in customer engines. Had a great neutral. Few miles later no neutral. Pulled down, disc were all warped.
Now that was a few years ago, problem May have been fixed.
But once burned, twice something?

Yeah, I don't want to take any chances, is my list correct for the turbo set?

10% stronger spring

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3340.aspx

it looks like I would have to piece together the turbo 400 set

8 of these...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3329DIS.aspx

13 of these...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3328-9S.aspx

and this gasket set...

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3416GS.aspx


I may or may not be able to replace the clutch disks in the car? look like some say yes some say no...?

[speedytinc]

When I say bad luck, I installed a couple sets in customer engines. Had a great neutral. Few miles later no neutral. Pulled down, disc were all warped.
Now that was a few years ago, problem May have been fixed.
But once burned, twice something?

Your experience is not a surprise.
I was told not to recommend bead blasting new disks, they warped. Original disks do not warp with bead blasting.
I suspected new disks were cut from hardened sheet thus adding a stress memory that appears when hot or blasted. I expect ford disks were hardened after forming. For this reason, I only use original disks and the majority of the time with TH400 clutch sets.

[Dan Hatch]

Willy: short answer NO.
Those big disc are the reproduction. Maybe they have fixed the problem????? I don’t know.
400 disc need the right hub, you got one?
Far as I know not being made right now.
Do you have the thing apart yet? Do you know what is in it? Is that the real problem?

[speedytinc]

You will have to, @ the least, lift the motor off the pan a bit. Resealing is a nightmare. This job is really a pull the motor & tear down IMHO.
For this reason I would not until you have clutch problems that require the work or another problem that needs a motor pull.

Regarding the dippers. They are junk soft. Torquing the nuts displaces the smooched metal. Feels like the threads are stripping during torquing.
Losing them is not unusual.
I don't use them. Their usage has been discredited by those in the know.

Back in the day (before these re-pops) guys used real Chevy dippers. Chevs were a hardened spring steel.

[speedytinc]

Willy: short answer NO.
Those big disc are the reproduction. Maybe they have fixed the problem????? I don’t know.
400 disc need the right hub, you got one?
Far as I know not being made right now.
Do you have the thing apart yet? Do you know what is in it? Is that the real problem?

You can get modified TH400 disks that fit the original clutch hub. Chaffin's sells the best ones.
I have several score thousand miles on one set. None of the BS wear problems I have seen claimed.

[WillyR]

You will have to, @ the least, lift the motor off the pan a bit. Resealing is a nightmare. This job is really a pull the motor & tear down IMHO.
For this reason I would not until you have clutch problems that require the work or another problem that needs a motor pull.

Regarding the dippers. They are junk soft. Torquing the nuts displaces the smooched metal. Feels like the threads are stripping during torquing.
Losing them is not unusual.
I don't use them. Their usage has been discredited by those in the know.

Back in the day (before these re-pops) guys used real Chevy dippers. Chevs were a hardened spring steel.

You will have to, @ the least, lift the motor off the pan a bit. Resealing is a nightmare. This job is really a pull the motor & tear down IMHO.
For this reason I would not until you have clutch problems that require the work or another problem that needs a motor pull.

Regarding the dippers. They are junk soft. Torquing the nuts displaces the smooched metal. Feels like the threads are stripping during torquing.
Losing them is not unusual.
I don't use them. Their usage has been discredited by those in the know.

Back in the day (before these re-pops) guys used real Chevy dippers. Chevs were a hardened spring steel.

Ok so when I pull the inspection pan, I just need to look for a cause of the dipper coming off? but I don't need the dipper? I'm ok with that...

or is there a real cause? just cheap junk spinning off into the ether...

I don't have an inspection pan gasket, so if I don't need to remove the pan just yet, I'd prefer it.

AND I don't need to worry about taking the engine out yet? she has been otherwise driving fine.

I'll get an inspection pan gasket on my short list of things to buy.

[Dan Hatch]

They all run fine till they don’t.
And they always don’t at the best time.
My Roadster was running the best it ever had right before I broke a crank. Right in front of High Meadow campground in Hershey. First day of the meet.

[WillyR]

alright I have been reading up on dippers, and since I'm set up for them I am going to buy a set along with a few gaskets.

I'm hesitant to pull my inspection pan without a new gasket, but I will probably do that tonight anyway since I'm curious as to what other metal bits I can find.

If I find any more clutch disk pieces I'll plan for that sooner rather than later....

I was planning on a spare set of coils, and an I-timer soon, with a ruckstell waiting in the wings.... but I think I'll just continue to save up for whatever she decides I need to spend my money on.....

still love this car....

[Line_Noise]

Question - did you jack the front of the car up when you drained the oil? If not, you want to do that before you pull the cover. There is like half a quart of oil in the pan dips, it is a lot less messy when you can get as much out as possible ahead of time. It is probably still going to be messy.

Also, I don't know how clean and dry your garage is, or what other purposes you use it for. If there is any chance of dust, moisture, rodents, etc. getting up in there, you might want to make two studs out of bolts or threaded rod so you can quickly get the cover back on, start a few bolts and close it up hand tight between inspection sessions, rather than just leaving it off overnight. I took a couple of matching thread size bolts and cut the heads off, worked great. You will need something anyway when you go to close it up final, when there is wet sealant on the mating surfaces and don't want to smear it all off fighting to get bolts started into the horseshoes.

[WillyR]

Question - did you jack the front of the car up when you drained the oil? If not, you want to do that before you pull the cover. There is like half a quart of oil in the pan dips, it is a lot less messy when you can get as much out as possible ahead of time. It is probably still going to be messy.

Also, I don't know how clean and dry your garage is, or what other purposes you use it for. If there is any chance of dust, moisture, rodents, etc. getting up in there, you might want to make two studs out of bolts or threaded rod so you can quickly get the cover back on, start a few bolts and close it up hand tight between inspection sessions, rather than just leaving it off overnight. I took a couple of matching thread size bolts and cut the heads off, worked great. You will need something anyway when you go to close it up final, when there is wet sealant on the mating surfaces and don't want to smear it all off fighting to get bolts started into the horseshoes.

I was going to drain out the lower oil check valve and jack the car up.

It's dusty on a good day so I was going to button up the cover after inspection. not having taken one off before I wasn't counting on the gasket being re-useable.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I was going to drain out the lower oil check valve and jack the car up.

Did you remove the drain plug at the bottom of the pan?

1.5.png (280.28 KiB) Viewed 12267 times

[WillyR]

I was going to drain out the lower oil check valve and jack the car up.

Did you remove the drain plug at the bottom of the pan?


1.5.png

I wasn't going to drain all the oil, just drain from the lower check valve

[speedytinc]

What the point of that?
Pull the drain plug & feel around & find any other pieces.
If you want to limit good oil loss, save it & put it back in.

[Dan Hatch]

Willy needs to look up what happens when something hangs on a model T magnet and wipes out the mag coils!
Or when a clutch hangs up or explodes.

Lot cheaper now than after that happens.
But, you got by lucky on that piece that fell pass the magnets already. If that had been me I’d be replacing magnets, coil and who knows what else. Your mileage may vary. Dan

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I was going to drain out the lower oil check valve and jack the car up.

Did you remove the drain plug at the bottom of the pan?


1.5.png

I wasn't going to drain all the oil, just drain from the lower check valve

You'll want to remove the plug to see if any more fragments of ??? come out with the oil. The screen doesn't catch everything. Some of it will settle to the bottom, where the plug is.

[varmint]

You can get a cheap bore scope $10-$20 on A-zon or eBad. I did and use it/abuse it.

[WillyR]

I already fiddled around at the drain plug and didn't find anything more there, that's where the clutch plate looking piece came from

[WillyR]

You can get a cheap bore scope $10-$20 on A-zon or eBad. I did and use it/abuse it.

I keep forgetting that modern technology is getting cheaper and cheaper...

[WillyR]

I got a mess of parts and gaskets on order, I should be able to borrow some stuff on monday to get her back on the road.

But tonight I'll pull that pan and see for sure where I'm at.

[WillyR]

It looks quite nice in there, no signs of other foreign matter.

The holder piece for the scooper is tight no signs of con rod problems. On any of the caps.

The previous owner recalls one of the rod may have had a shim removed some time ago.

It this was the one and the old scooper was reused that could explain its failure.

[Dan Hatch]

Look at rod number 3, marked in yellow.

[Allan]

The dippers need fiting. This means if they are too wide to go between the raised edges of the cap, they need to be narrowed to fit. If the rod bolt holes don't line up when they do fit between the ridges, the holes need to be reworked. The dippers should not just be placed over the bolts and the nuts drawn up, deforming stuff as they are tightened. I believe the dipper part id spot welded to the base, and stretching/deforming it may have broken that weld.

With the pan cover off, it is wise to remove the horseshoes in the pan and clean out any crud which may have lodged between the shoes and the pan sides.

Allan from down under.

Allan from down under.

[TFan]

Maybe it's just my eyes but I see no hole for the dipper to push the oil through where the scoop is missing. Jim

[Dan Hatch]

I don’t see one either. But something made the scoop come off.
They don’t just fall off for the fun of it. Need to at least take cap off and check bearing. Check the cover and be sure not hitting something.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Maybe it's just my eyes but I see no hole for the dipper to push the oil through where the scoop is missing. Jim

I believe you're correct, Jim. That being the case, there's no reason to use dippers at all. If it were mine, I'd just remove them entirely.

Some will say that they will still splash oil around. They apparently, will also fall apart... Not worth it.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

They don’t just fall off for the fun of it.

Yes, sometimes they do. This is not the first I've seen of this.

[WillyR]

There is a looberkashun hole in the cap.

I have a new dipper and I can see how it’s spot welded to the flange.

When I get the old one off I’ll see where the old one failed.

I’m watching kitchen nightmares now and I’ll button her up in a few minutes.

[WillyR]

The old dipper sheared off and the flange with the spot welds was intact.

[WillyR]

I didn't get to drive her today, I was in a rush and needed to stop for gas.

I did, just now order an analog multimeter, and I figure I may keep it in the trunk maybe....


I also ordered my pinstriping paint...

AND last night, I had never started it by the crank before, and after lubing the slapper timer with dow 33, I choked her one crank, and she fired right up with the next.

She was mildly warm from running her a bit a few hours prior, but after I figured out I don't need to choke the living tar out of her even when using the electric starter.

When cold two quick cranks with choke and electric and she fires right up....

[Allan]

Those dippers show signs of never being fitted, just put over the rod bolts and drawn down, conforming to the rod as they go.They should not distort inwards at the sides of the scoop, and the rod holes should not be stretched oval If they were fitted, there would need to be some relief on the sides so they would settle between the webs on the cap without distorting the sides of the dipper. Then, if the bolt holes did not line up, they should be deliberately reworked into an oval shape so that the foot can rest on the cap bolt holes. The bolt will the fit without stretching the eye in the dipper body.
Like a number of reproduction parts, they need reworking so they can do what they are supposed to do. Who can remember the amount of fettling needed to make the old two piece, cast iron, lined emergency brake shoes?

Allan from down under

[WillyR]

Those dippers show signs of never being fitted, just put over the rod bolts and drawn down, conforming to the rod as they go.They should not distort inwards at the sides of the scoop, and the rod holes should not be stretched oval If they were fitted, there would need to be some relief on the sides so they would settle between the webs on the cap without distorting the sides of the dipper. Then, if the bolt holes did not line up, they should be deliberately reworked into an oval shape so that the foot can rest on the cap bolt holes. The bolt will the fit without stretching the eye in the dipper body.
Like a number of reproduction parts, they need reworking so they can do what they are supposed to do. Who can remember the amount of fettling needed to make the old two piece, cast iron, lined emergency brake shoes?

Allan from down under

Could be, I fitted this one, (rounded to the cap shape) it didn't take much, I think I'll check my transmission screen every time I lube my timer. so 200 miles or so.

I have a new bicycle computer on the way to better track mileage, for maintenance intervals.

drive to work today had no memorable events... other than passing a couple cars that couldn't find the accelerator pedal app on their phone...

[Craig Leach]

Hi Vilhelm,
Is there actually a hole in the rod cap? That looks like it is just a punch mark, if a hole it is rather small.
Craig.

[WillyR]

Saturday is a club breakfast, and Sunday I'll be checking my transmission screen for odd ball metal and kewpie dolls and such.

no other odd sounds since that piece possibly came off a clutch disc...

running flawlessly.....

I now have a plethora of gaskets so I can inspect ad nauseum...

I have not tired my new analog multimeter on my magneto but will do this on sunday...