Bought my First T

[mikefr24]

Hi Everyone. I have been wanting a Model T for a long time and finally got one. I picked up a 1917 Touring that has been converted to a pickup with the Ford metal pickup bed. It's a project and not restored (what I wanted so I can learn about it). It also needs upholstery work and its missing the wood backrest frame for the seat. Its pretty complete other than that and very little rust which is impressive for something so old. I also got a extra set of body panels (fenders, splash guards, running boards, etc). Must be from another car the owner had. Original owner died and the kids did not want it.

I have been learning a lot. I rebuilt the carb and got it running and took it on a short drive. Seems to work good after I figure out how to drive it. I thought I overheated it, but I made the mistake of overfilling the radiator (seems to like it just above the cooling fins?) This thing is nothing like a modern car so I have to reset my thinking. The radiator Motor Meter shows red but when I measure with my IR temp gun I get about 190 on the top of the radiator and 170's on the bottom. The engine head itself 204F. Seems okay? but who knows its 90F outside today and super humid. I was idling it a lot so I know that does not help as it likes to move. Fan works and belt is good.

One thing that concerns me is a clunky ratchet noise I get when I use the transmission brake from a higher speed say 20mph. Sounds like it is from the transmission and scares me to death but maybe its the rear end. Not sure on that.

So... I ordered the Service Manual and all the MTFCA books from Langs. I think I will check the transmission out and the rear axle for trouble. Maybe something is worn out or sloppy. Overall I love this thing! They drive really nice. Starts super easy too usually on half crank (no electric start for me).

Mike
Marlette, MI

[varmint]

Welcome to the club! Nice T.

[TXGOAT2]

The clunky noise might be a cracked transmission brake drum. Or it could be a dry u-joint. Or a rear hub that is not tight on the axle shaft. Have you oiled and greased the entire vehicle, including all moving body parts and all the chassis parts, including filling the u-joint housing with grease? Be sure the nut holding each of the rear hubs to the axle are both tight.

[TXGOAT2]

In hot weather, 190 to 200 F is not too hot. It should not boil over. It's a good idea to go over the entire vehicle checking for loose or missing nuts, bolts, etc.

[mikefr24]

I changed engine oil and filled every oil cup I could see in the suspension. I also filled the fan pulley and adjusted the belt. I found a bunch of grease caps under the car today so I missed those. Rear end diff. has some thick nasty oil in it like a sloppy grease almost. I have not checked anything in the transmission or the drive shaft U-joints. I will check all those as you recommend once I get the service manuals. I originally filled the radiator to the neck and found out that was too much which it just came out the overflow. I did remove both rear hubs to check the brakes. Brakes were replaced and are more modern with brake material and in good shape. The axle nuts are very tight with cotter pin. I did not feel much movement in and out on the rear axles.

I will completely go over it before I drive it again. I need to read the manuals and perform all the normal service to it. I gotta find the clunking issue as well. I have driven two other T's which did not have the clunking so I am certain I am driving it right.

[1925 Touring]

Welcome to the affliction!
The T uses a VERY thick rear end 'grease'. It is practically a hybrid between grease and oil. It is 600wt gear oil. The modern oils from the vendors (langs, snyders, chaffins, etc) are the closest thing to what it originally was. You're not wrong, it is practically like grease.
As far as the in and out play goes, I'd be best if you check to see if you have babbit thrust washers in it or not. When I got my T, I drove the heck out of it, 'oh, I'll check it over the winter' I figured. We'll, it lasted until the fall and I was going down a small hill with a corner and grrrrrrrt the thrust washer failed. I limped the car home and had a new axle rebuilt over the winter. Some cases you can loose the brakes because the ring and pinion skip and since the brake is in the transmission, it can be rendered useless. I had very minimal in and out play too. Things to consider. The vendors sell new brass thrust washers too.

[John kuehn]

Hi Mike
It will greatly be to your advantage to buy yourself the The Ford Service manual that will help you learn about a Model T. Also call and ask Snyder’s, Lang’s, and Chaffins. Ask for their parts catalogues. There is a wealth of information for parts and identifying what you may need for your car.
Even when you repair with may need to be fixed your Model T is still 100 year old technology that will depend on how you drive and treat your T. Learn all you can about your car so you won’t get surprised along the way. And as always DO REMEMBER THAT A MODEL T DOESNT HAVE BRAKES LIKE YOUR MODERN VEHICLE DOES. Good luck and read and learn all you can for a great Model T experience. And of course the Forum is here for advice!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

One thing that concerns me is a clunky ratchet noise I get when I use the transmission brake from a higher speed say 20mph. Sounds like it is from the transmission and scares me to death but maybe its the rear end. Not sure on that.


Mike
Marlette, MI

IMG_5301.JPG

Hi Mike! Welcome!

What you describe seems like a classic case of a disintegrated babbit thrust washer in the rear end. The original thrust washers crumble and fall apart, allowing the ring gear to move away from the pinion gear. When you brake, the ratcheting sound you hear is the gear teeth climbing over one another. Don't drive it like that. It's unsafe.

I suggest you contact Brian Dowell, (BrianD), or Tim Juhl, (Oldav8tor), both on this forum, and both not far from you. They are with the Borderline T's Chapter of MTFCI. Their chapter does an excellent job of helping new owners get their T's sorted out and safe. Brian is from St. Clair and I believe Tim is near Port Sanilac. They and their chapter are a great bunch of folks.

[Ed Baudoux]

Welcome to the illness. Before you drive much more, pull the rear axle apart and replace the thrust washers. Use the manual. They're extremely simple, but a few tricks are helpful. Like swapping the inner axle Hyatts to the wheel end, ect.

[speedytinc]

I had a similar situation, but it wasnt a thrust washer. The drive shaft bearing & inner race came apart. The pinion gear would climb the ring gear making a ratcheting sound under load situations.
Either way its a rear end problem.

[AndyClary]

Hi Mike. I’m glad you found this forum and the MTFCA for help. There is a chapter in Rochester Hills. While it is a ways from your home there maybe some members closer to you. My recommendation for new T owners is to contact a chapter because while the forum has a lot of info there is nothing like having a knowledgeable guy to bounce questions off of or in your case listen to a problem.



Andy

[Allan]

Mike, track down a local who is familiar with T's and have him go for a short ride with you. As you are finding out, experience is invaluable. If the ratcheting comes on as the speed is lowered, it may simply be the bands chattering under braking. This is of o real concern.

If it is failing rear axle trust washers, You may even run out of brakes altogether if the pinion no longer meshes with the ring gear.

Allan from down under.

[mikefr24]

oh man. thanks everyone for the info. I did order the Ford Service manual so I will be reading through that. Its good to know there are some local guys in my area that might be available to talk to or even test out my T. I will check that out. I have worked on cars and my own stuff for 30 years but the model T is a completely different piece of equipment from anything I have worked on before. its pretty amazing.

i will say youtube is pretty great resource too. I have been watching many Model T repair videos. I am blown away how simple the car is.

[Steve Jelf]

Yes, the Model T is simple. But it contains some surprises that can cost you if you aren't warned. (Don't pull the starter without removing the Bendix first.) The shop manual can save you some grief, and a lot of other info is available. Some of these articles may be useful:
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

[John Codman]

The top and bottom coolant temperatures concern me. The radiator should drop the coolant temperature more then 20 degrees. 170 going into the engine is about what my T has coming out of the engine. My radiator drops the coolant temperature 40 degrees idling on a hot day. I'm sure that it lowers the temperature more then that when driving down the road, but I can't run fast enough to check the radiator temperatures while the car is moving. My Motometer does not reach the halfway point - ever. It sure did before I replaced the radiator. Replacing the radiator can be a bit on the pricy side, but if your old radiator is the problem, there's only one fix. If your radiator is 40 years old or more, I'll bet you a nickel that it's fins are not making good contact with the vertical tubes, and cannot properly dissipate coolant heat. This is one of the more common Model T issues. I think that it's possible to purchase a new radiator core, but finding a decent radiator repair shop has gotten problematical. There is a company that makes new radiators that advertises in the MTFCA magazine. That's the route that I would (and did) take.

[mikefr24]

the radiator is still a concern on my list. I want to clean and flush out everything first. I read about some tests I can do by filling it up and timing its draining time to make sure its not clogged. I have also read about the old radiators that develop the issue of no contact between the fins and tubes. So i should look for a 40F difference between the top and bottom of the radiator? I have no problem buying a new one if I need to. I just want to make sure I need to replace it.

[speedytinc]

After the top tank is drained you can look down to see a few of the tube tops. You can get an idea of condition. Calcium build up or rust chunks blocking the tubes. If rust chunks, remove & back flush from the bottom. Or have it professionally cleaned. If calcium deposits, the system can be cleaned with product or a couple cans of coke. The phosphoric acid there in will dissolve the calcium as you drive.

[mikefr24]

Radiator is out. I flushed it 1/2 dozen times and rust and crap came out. It is a honeycomb kind and 17". So I guess its the low height one. So is this original? 108 yrs old is nuts and I am shocked it works at all. I will buy a few gallons of vinegar or CLR for it tomorrow. I'll let it soak for a few days and flush it out again.

[speedytinc]

Honeycomb is an aftermarket core/radiator.

[JohnM]

Honeycomb is an aftermarket core/radiator.

Had one on a 27 Tudor, it cooled well. Sounds like you found your problem with the rust scales in the radiator. Don't forget to flush the block also since that is the source of the scales.

[mikefr24]

I flushed the block and crap came out of it too. Now they are both sitting with 5% Vinegar soaking for a few days. I'll rinse them soon.

[John Codman]

I hope that crud is the problem. Keep us posted.

[Daisy Mae]

Fabricate a way to reverse flush the block as well, even if duct taping a hose to the lower outlet. There's also potential for large crude to be retained in the head.... in my case I got a dozen acorns! (Both out of the head as well as upper radiator tank....kids...squirrels, lord knows sitting since 1930)
But.....my clue was a lot of broken shells on the initial flush.

[Steve Jelf]

This page about cooling and flushing may help: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG96.html

These videos show flushing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOZ2MZt5FY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3nkPm87X0