Tracking down a 1916 Model T

[WarbirdPhotog]

Hello all! Just signed up on the forums here. I'm hunting for a 1916 Ford Model T Touring Car that used to be owned by my grandfather, Richard C Dietz. Back in 2012, my grandfather passed away. My grandmother sold the Model T in a panic shortly after. It was originally supposed to be handed down to my father.

For the last few years, I've been trying to hunt down the Model T with very little information. Unfortunately, my grandmother could not recall any information about the vehicle or who she sold it to, and she had misplaced all the details. Sadly, my grandmother passed away about two weeks ago. But, looking through her items, we discovered a letter she sent to American Collector's Insurance Inc, cancelling the insurance, and she lists the VIN as 6408. This is the biggest leap of info we've had so far.

I realize the current owner might not want to sell it (I own a US Army 1944 GPW Jeep and a 1940 Ford Deluxe Sedan and wouldn't want to part with them!), but we're trying to find the owner, or even where it might be, and see if they'd be up for parting with it. I've reached out to a few different Model T clubs in Southern California, as the Model T was originally based in Santa Ana, CA, where my grandparents lived, and that's where it was sold. It's a bit of a needle in a haystack, but I hope with the VIN information, we might get a lead.

I remember riding in it when I was young; it was all black with two rows of seats and no top installed. My grandfather had the top for it, but never put it on. Any help you guys might have to help us track this special Model T down and see if the owner is willing to sell it would be greatly appreciated!

[RajoRacer]

I believe there might be 1 or 2 numbers missing - that number would be like a '09.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It might help to know your grandfather's name and in what city or state the car was sold. As already mentioned, the VIN number makes no sense for 1916, unless it was given a new VIN by some DMV office.

[speedytinc]

Contact the Orange county model t ford club. Some of the old timers might remember him IF he was a member.
Will need his name.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Thanks for the info so far. That's a bummer that the number is not quite right. It did seem awfully short. Unfortunately, checking over the letter again, I can confirm that's what she wrote (not to say she wasn't mistaken). I have the American Collector's Insurance policy number, so I've thought about reaching out to them and seeing if they would perhaps give me any info (Vin, License Plate, etc) they might still have on file, if any. I have my Jeep and '40 Ford through them, so they might possibly help since I'm family.

My grandfather's name was Richard C Dietz. My grandmother's name was Peggy Dietz.The vehicle was sold in Santa Ana, CA 92705 in July 2012.

Edit: I mentioned in the original post that I've contacted several Model T groups. This includes the Orange County and Long Beach clubs. Waiting on a reply. I didn't think about giving them my Grandfather's name, however. I don't recall him being a part of those groups, as I don't remember him going to any meets. But it's tough to say.

[WarbirdPhotog]

We found a photo from a long time ago of the family (I'm holding the dog, I'm 42 now!). Grandparents are sitting in the front seats.

[RajoRacer]

What a great family photo ! Hopefully, someone will be able to assist in your search !

[kmatt2]

I am guessing that the insurance form showing the four digit VIN that you list as 6408 , and the fact that the car was in southern California , that the number is a California Assigned Identification Number. If the car is still in California and currently registered or on non-opp you may be able to find some one who is authorized to run a VIN check for a 1916 Ford with that VIN. It would be a big help if you could find a picture of the car from the front or back or another form that shows the license plate number. Good luck in your search.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Interesting that the hood has louvers all the way along the side panels. This is not typical, is it? Maybe a clue to identification, albeit a small one.

[KWTownsend]

Go online to California DMV and do a title search.

[Steve Jelf]

Jerry's comment on the hood is on the mark. That's not the stock 15-16 Ford hood in the photo. The correct hood would have six louvers.

[Kevin Pharis]

Hood is correct and has 6 louvers… but if you look close you will see 3 extra louvers out in front with unequal spacing to the original 6. Definitely a unique modification that could help to identify this specific car. Hoods are readily available and easy to change, so car may not retain this uniqueness forever

[speedytinc]

The name is familiar. I believe they were members of the OCMTFC. I dont recall seeing this T out, especially if it never had a top.
Consider the number (vin?) you have may be a horseless carriage or historical vehicle plate #.
I dont recall the T being offered for sale within the club.
I will inquire Thursday night on the matter with some of the old timers.

[Bmettli]

I had sold my 1953 Chevy in 2008 when I got out of college. I wanted it back 15 years later and I had a copy of the title with the VIN. You can't find the current owner name doing a standard title search. Someone told me to reach out to a Private Eye service and they can run it and contact the owner on my behalf. I did and paid $700 for the service. Talked to the owner and bought the car back later that week. But bottom line for you is that you need the correct VIN to proceed with tracking. Perhaps you can run your family name through the DMV and get a list of all the cars registered in the past to your family member.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Thanks for all the ideas everyone! Some of those are a bit of a dead end with my Grandmother now passed away (a lot of DMV forms require her to be the one requesting it seems).

The name is familiar. I believe they were members of the OCMTFC. I dont recall seeing this T out, especially if it never had a top. Consider the number (vin?) you have may be a horseless carriage or historical vehicle plate #. I dont recall the T being offered for sale within the club. I will inquire Thursday night on the matter with some of the old timers.

Thank you for asking! I have yet to get any reply to the Model T groups I emailed thus far (or American Collector's Insurance). We're trying to find more information, but that letter is the only thing we have at this point. She lists it as the 'V.I.N.' number in the letter, but that's not to say she didn't know it was a special number. I know it didn't have historical plates or non-California plates, as we have an unused set of historical plates that he was planning to switch the CA ones over to and never did. I can confirm the number on the historical plates are not related to what the Model T had when it was sold. So that's another dead end, sadly.

Go online to California DMV and do a title search.

How can we do this without my Grandmother putting in the request? Now that she's gone, wouldn't I need her information? She hasn't had a driver's license in many years. So I'm not sure how we can go about requesting that info without proof.

I am guessing that the insurance form showing the four digit VIN that you list as 6408 , and the fact that the car was in southern California , that the number is a California Assigned Identification Number. If the car is still in California and currently registered or on non-opp you may be able to find some one who is authorized to run a VIN check for a 1916 Ford with that VIN. It would be a big help if you could find a picture of the car from the front or back or another form that shows the license plate number. Good luck in your search.

Good info! It could have been a CAIN, and she didn't realize it was not the VIN. I suppose it could be a partial VIN as well that she had from the insurance. Who would have access to a VIN check? Is that something I can go into the DMV and ask?
Sadly, photos of the Model T are just as difficult to find as the information. Just about any photos of the Model T we have are either cropped above the plates or side views.

[DHort]

The DMV should be able to use the death certificates to allow you to track information without her filling in the forms.

[WarbirdPhotog]

The funeral and service was yesterday (Thursday), so I was able to talk to several family members (in the photo I posted) about the Model T. Sadly, nothing that would help with the hunt so far, but as several of them will be going through my grandmather's things in the next week, they all are going to keep an eye out for any documentation or photos of the Model T.

My Aunt (one of my grandmother's daughters) says she has a box of Model T manuals and things... but she doesn't remember there being any VIN/License plates or other info. That being said, she was going to try and find that box and give me everything she has. So we'll see on that.

I now have a copy of the death certificate for her, but I'm now wondering if I actually need a copy of my grandfather's death certificate to get the DMV information, as I don't know if my grandmother ever transfered the ownership/title/etc to herself after my grandfather passed, and I don't know even what the DMV status was on the Model T when he passed in 2012.

So far, my emails to the CHP, American Collector's Insurance, the OC Model T Club, and the Long Beach Model T clubs have gone unanswered.

[Steve Hughes]

I think the process is simpler than you are thinking. I tracked down a Model T my father sold years earlier. I did have a license plate number, but I would say just call DMV and give them all the information you have and see if they have a record of the car. I did that and there was no problem finding out if it was still registered in California. Because of privacy issues they couldn't tell me who owned the car currently, but he informed me that they have a message forwarding service. I went to a DMV office and filled out a form and noted on it that I was looking for the car that the family had owned. They then send that form to the current owner. Hopefully the new owner will be a nice guy and then will get in touch with you. In my case I got a call a few days later, and surprisingly the car was for sale and I was able to buy it back. I hope you have similar luck in your search.

[modeltspaz]

Or, if you know someone that works in law enforcement, they may be able to run the license plate number and see if the plate number is still active. They may be able to give you the current owner information. If the new owner took it out of state and re-registered it, that may be end of it considering that the car may have had an assigned CAL VIN.

Your best bet is to hope that your relative finds documentation with the license plate number.

[John Codman]

It sounds to me that this is a replacement engine. It has been posted on this forum that some of the replacement engines were sold by Ford with no engine number stamped on it. You were supposed to stamp the number of the original engine on the new one. I also have read that California was one of the first states to address the issue of replacement engines that had a different number then the car left the factory with. If the replacement engine has a starter, it couldn't possibly have the number that you have listed. Being a 1916, it didn't have a starter, but if that was a factory number, that engine would be extremely desirable to someone restoring a Brass-era T.

[TRDxB2]

Don't be surprised if the DMV refuses to respond to your request to ID current info on the car based on VIN or License plate number, etc. The Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA) law restricts the disclosure of personal information collected by DMVs, including names and addresses associated with vehicle registrations. Your best alternative is to focus the search on the unusual louvered hood & natural wood wheels. These may still be a way to identify the car unless a new owner wanted to "correct" it

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[Colin Mavins]

your grand father was listed in the 2005 directory with a picture they do list 12 other members from Santa Ana ,maybe one from the local club would know.

[Steve Hughes]

Colin Mavins: Does the picture in the directory show a license plate with a legible number? That would really help with the DMV inquiry.

[Colin Mavins]

California red horseless carriage plate numbers on the left corner and are blurred

[John Codman]

The DMV should be able to use the death certificates to allow you to track information without her filling in the forms.

I agree. This cannot be the first time this issue has occurred.
If you can find a friendly police officer, he or she can probably gain access to whatever you want from the DMV.

[Steve Jelf]

At the risk of being deemed a wet blanket, I'll slosh a bit of ice water on this subject. Some 40+ years ago I set about trying to reconstruct the ownership history of my 1939 Packard. I was able to go back and find the owner before me, and the owner before him, and the owner before him, etc. The project hit a stone wall when I got to the guy who denied ever being the car's owner.

The often-suggested DMV route proved equally futile. I found that the state kept records going back only five years, and purged all years before that. I seriously doubt that sometime since 1985 the California DMV has started keeping records going back more than five years.

Any method you try will be the longest of long shots, but I suspect the chance of success will be best with insurance companies or clubs.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Oh wow, so many replies! I've been reading them all and trying to stay caught up. I have some new information, and some updates (though they are not good updates)....
- So, talking with a family member, we DO have those original horseless carriage plates. I was under the impression that he was going to switch to those plates and never did before he passed, but in actuality, I guess he decided to get rid of the plates because they had '666' or something in them. So, we have those plates somewhere. Going off of what Colin Mavins said about the photo with the horseless carriage plates in the photo, it sounds like they were originally on the Model T before he moved them. So, if that's the case, if I can re-find those plates... would that be something we can use? Unfortunately, that means the plates that those were replaced with are different, so if the current owner still has the plates it was sold with, then it won't match up. So I'm not sure what extra information we could get (perhaps a VIN?) with the horseless carriage plates.
- Another bit of engine information I found out... my Grandfather took apart the engine during the restoration (or perhaps there was something wrong, that part is unclear), and he decided it was a bit over his head, so he sent it out to be rebuilt.
- Progress is going slow on family members going through my grandmother's things (and probably will be for a few days since we just had the funeral). But I'm hoping someone finds something. I have about 5 people looking for any clues right now. My grandmother lived several hours north in Grass Valley, CA for the last 10 years of her life, and I'm located in Southern California, so I can't help.

Updates:

• DMV - I sent an email to the DMV asking them what, if anything, I can get with a Death Certificate and explained that I know they can't give me the current owner's info. No reply so far... I'm debating going into the DMV and talking with someone, but the lines for our DMVs here in SoCal are horrendous. I do wonder if I can do something like this at AAA.
• CHP - No reply at all for several days now. Not sure how long it takes to get a reply.
• Model T Clubs Emails - No emails I've sent to the Orange County or Long Beach Model T clubs have been answered and it's been over a week.
• OC Model T Facebook Group - My girlfriend tried posting in there for me, she didn't get a single reply.
• Other Facebook Model T groups - I've posted on a few groups. No replies, maybe one or two likes. This forum, by far, as been more helpful than all the other things we're tried so far.

I think the process is simpler than you are thinking. I tracked down a Model T my father sold years earlier. I did have a license plate number, but I would say just call DMV and give them all the information you have and see if they have a record of the car. I did that and there was no problem finding out if it was still registered in California. Because of privacy issues they couldn't tell me who owned the car currently, but he informed me that they have a message forwarding service. I went to a DMV office and filled out a form and noted on it that I was looking for the car that the family had owned. They then send that form to the current owner. Hopefully the new owner will be a nice guy and then will get in touch with you. In my case I got a call a few days later, and surprisingly the car was for sale and I was able to buy it back. I hope you have similar luck in your search.

That would be AMAZING! But, I think we need more information first. Without a verified VIN or plate, I think we might be stuck. But that would be the dream!

Or, if you know someone that works in law enforcement, they may be able to run the license plate number and see if the plate number is still active. They may be able to give you the current owner information. If the new owner took it out of state and re-registered it, that may be end of it considering that the car may have had an assigned CAL VIN. Your best bet is to hope that your relative finds documentation with the license plate number.

No go on knowing someone, sadly. And yes, it's possible the Model T could be anywhere in the world really. I'd like to think it's still local, but 13 years have passed since it was sold.

It sounds to me that this is a replacement engine. It has been posted on this forum that some of the replacement engines were sold by Ford with no engine number stamped on it. You were supposed to stamp the number of the original engine on the new one. I also have read that California was one of the first states to address the issue of replacement engines that had a different number then the car left the factory with. If the replacement engine has a starter, it couldn't possibly have the number that you have listed. Being a 1916, it didn't have a starter, but if that was a factory number, that engine would be extremely desirable to someone restoring a Brass-era T.

Unfortunately, I was too young to remember specific details about the Model T. I remember riding in it, I remember the sound it made, I remember the Arooga horn, and I remember the seats were 'original' as they were cracking. I remember it having four doors. At the time, I wasn't into cars (much more a military/aviation fan). Now that I've restored my 1944 Jeep from the frame up, and I'm doing an almost frame-up restoration of the 1940 Ford Deluxe sedan I got two years ago, I'm sure I would have retained a lot more information.

[ Your best alternative is to focus the search on the unusual louvered hood & natural wood wheels. These may still be a way to identify the car unless a new owner wanted to "correct" it

I'm not sure how I can use that information to find it, other than what I've been doing posting the photo and trying to reach out to places. But I feel that's finding a needle in a haystack, so I need some sort of other way to get info. At this point, I'm not looking for the DMV to tell me who owns it... I just want the DMV to tell me what the actual VIN was, and perhaps what the CA license plate was after my grandfather removed the horseless carriage plates. I feel like they might be able to get me that.

your grand father was listed in the 2005 directory with a picture they do list 12 other members from Santa Ana ,maybe one from the local club would know.

WOW! Do you know how I can get ahold of anywhere there? Because posting in the OC Model T club Facebook group and emailing them seems to a dead end. Could you share the image?

I agree. This cannot be the first time this issue has occurred. If you can find a friendly police officer, he or she can probably gain access to whatever you want from the DMV.

I've just been contemplating showing up the DMV and trying to see if I can get info. The issue is that I'm not sure if I can get a copy of my grandfather's death certificate easily... I have my grandmother's right now. But considering my grandfather passed in early 2012 and my grandmother sold the Model T in July of that same year... I highly doubt she transferred ownership to herself. It could have just been a bill of sale to the buyer. So I don't know if, even if they look up her vehicle ownership history, the Model T would be listed.

At the risk of being deemed a wet blanket, I'll slosh a bit of ice water on this subject. Some 40+ years ago I set about trying to reconstruct the ownership history of my 1939 Packard. I was able to go back and find the owner before me, and the owner before him, and the owner before him, etc. The project hit a stone wall when I got to the guy who denied ever being the car's owner.

The often-suggested DMV route proved equally futile. I found that the state kept records going back only five years, and purged all years before that. I seriously doubt that sometime since 1985 the California DMV has started keeping records going back more than five years.

Any method you try will be the longest of long shots, but I suspect the chance of success will be best with insurance companies or clubs.

I think it's still worth the effort. I mean, my grandmother was alive up until a bit over two weeks ago, so she still has a record with the DMV I'm sure. And my grandfather was alive just 13 years ago. I have to imagine they have those records somewhere. I'm sure they have my vehicle ownership history going back further than 13 years.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

As for your unanswered emails, that is the general trend these days. It seems that maybe 50%, or more, of emails sent to companies or other organizations are never answered, especially if sent as blind emails, to general information type addresses. It's best to phone or visit in person, if possible.

[Allan]

This is a very interesting search. A few points which may/may not help. If the car had four doors, it must have been a Canadian built car. The family photo shows it has a large drum 26-7 rear axle. It appears also to have a double front wishbone. These observations may help verify a particular vehicle if your search finds a car that fits these modifications.

Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

When I see online advice involving interaction with "the DMV", I'm reminded that states are like Model T cars: They're all different. What works in Kansas or Illinois may not apply in California.

[RajoRacer]

I'd venture to state that the rear end most likely has original or Sunderlin R.M. brakes - perhaps that is the rear anchor point & spring poking out the back ?

[Allan]

It's hard to tell from this far away Steve! Either way, it may be a help when identifying a particular car, the accessory brakes being even more definitive.

Allan from down under.

[speedytinc]

I talked to some oldtimers. Combined we found your grandparents were members in the OCMTFC.
Old rosters list T's of the owners. Their 16 was not listed.. I have been very active for over 40 years. I dont remember seeing the car as shown.
I dont remember it on any tours. I did recognize their names.
(Not that my memory is Gospel. I do have an uncanny memory for club T's, especially ones I have toured with.)
I dont remember that T listed for sale.
Not that any of that would help you track the current owner. I dont believe it belongs to a current member. It is not one of the 2 16's currently listed. (we know the history of both)
This club is a dead end in your search.
Good luck with DMV or other ways of tracking down this T.

[WarbirdPhotog]

I've been trying to post this story in most of the Model T groups/forums I can find. I'd like to think someone may have seen it, but there's also the chance that the current owner has nothing to do with any Model T groups. Even though there are a bazllion Military Vehicle clubs/groups, it took me seven years before I finally joined one with my WW2 Jeep. Most military vehicle owners I'm friends with are not part of any group at all.

Some new ideas/suggestions I've learned:

• Some people have said that perhaps the 6408 'vin' is the replacement horseless carriage plate numbers since he removed the original ones that had 666 in it. I can't confirm that at the moment, but that leaves three possibilities for that 6408 number: 1) It's the actual VIN for some weird reason. 2) It's a California Assigned Identification Number. 3) It's the replacement Horseless Carriage plate numbers. 4) My Grandmother got it wron in the letter and they are only a partial/not anything at all.
• Some have said I should try and run an ad/article in the national Model T magazine.
• I think I'm going to pop by AAA on my way to work Tuesday, and see what info they can help me with.

I talked to some oldtimers. Combined we found your grandparents were members in the OCMTFC.
Old rosters list T's of the owners. Their 16 was not listed.. I have been very active for over 40 years. I don't remember seeing the car as shown.
I dont remember it on any tours. I did recognize their names.
(Not that my memory is Gospel. I do have an uncanny memory for club T's, especially ones I have toured with.)
I dont remember that T listed for sale.
Not that any of that would help you track the current owner. I don't believe it belongs to a current member. It is not one of the 2 16's currently listed. (we know the history of both). This club is a dead end in your search. Good luck with DMV or other ways of tracking down this T.

Wow! Thank you for taking the time to look. It's a bummer that there wasn't any further information that could be obtained from that, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to look.
I'm pretty confident that my Grandmother did not sell the Model T through the club. I'm not sure how it was sold, sadly. I wish she were still around, that I could ask her all these questions I've since learned could have been helpful (if she even remembered, however).

It's hard to tell from this far away Steve! Either way, it may be a help when identifying a particular car, the accessory brakes being even more definitive.

If we could put together a list of the unique features on the T (from what we can best see from the photo... I am trying to find more), that would help me to have that as additional info when contacting the clubs/groups. Preferably things that we can 'mostly confirm' or features 'highly probable'. I'm new into the world of Model Ts and really don't know much about them as my vehicle restorations/studies are in the 1940s/WW2.

As for your unanswered emails, that is the general trend these days. It seems that maybe 50%, or more, of emails sent to companies or other organizations are never answered, especially if sent as blind emails, to general information-type addresses. It's best to phone or visit in person, if possible.

Yeah, seems like the case. It's a shame, as a quick email reply with 'Sorry, we can't help you with that' would save me time having to find a number to call/being on hold/or having to go in person.

[John Codman]

When I see online advice involving interaction with "the DMV", I'm reminded that states are like Model T cars: They're all different. What works in Kansas or Illinois may not apply in California.

I agree. Also, some states didn't issue titles until fairly recently. I'm not positive of this, but IIRC my native state of Massachusetts didn't start issuing titles on motor vehicles until about 1980. I have found information in the internet some information that says titles were issued much earlier then that, but I can remember buying and selling cars in MA with just a hand-written bill of sale.

[big2bird]

California DMV purges any unregistered car after 7 years.

[Steve Jelf]

Britt, do you have any other photos of the car? I don't care what plates were on it in 2012. What I'm wondering about is "incorrect" features other than the unorthodox hood. If there were other creative alterations they might be helpful in identifying the car.

[WarbirdPhotog]

California DMV purges any unregistered car after 7 years.

Are you sure of this? That would be a huge bummer if so. Doesn't seem like that long to wait till it's purged.

Britt, do you have any other photos of the car? I don't care what plates were on it in 2012. What I'm wondering about is "incorrect" features other than the unorthodox hood. If there were other creative alterations they might be helpful in identifying the car.

As of right now, no. The photo is one of two shots (both from the side and from the same sitting with family) that I have right now. I'm hopeful that, in the next few weeks/months, as family goes through her things, they come across more photos.

[TRDxB2]

There is no point in perusing help from the CA DMV because of privacy laws https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-ed ... -ffdmv-17/
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The DMV only purgers "registration Information" after the 4th year that of it not being renewed. So as long as its been continually licensed the record exist. Title information with an open lien are kept until paid. The "paper" Title is a legal document & does not expire.

[WarbirdPhotog]

There is no point in perusing help from the CA DMV because of privacy laws https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-ed ... -ffdmv-17/
The DMV only purgers "registration Information" after the 4th year that of it not being renewed. So as long as its been continually licensed the record exist. Title information with an open lien are kept until paid. The "paper" Title is a legal document & does not expire.

That's a real bummer. But, could we try and figure out what the '6408' number is? IE is it's a Model T VIN, Horseless Carriage plate, CAIN? I think at least having that information could be a big stepping stone.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Some updates 8/5/2025:

• American Collector's Insurance: I got a reply from the insurance company. Unfortunately, another dead end. They aquired a different insurance company in 2019, so any 'AVP' insurance records no longer exist (which is what my grandmother listed the policy number as in that letter we have).
• National Club: I'm in contact with the National Model T club, and the club president put me in touch with their bi-monthly magazine editor to see about putting together an article about this search.
• Photos: At this point, I'm putting a lot of messages out to family to send any photos they might have of the Model T, no matter how cropped or small they might be. Anything will help at this point.
• Orange County Model T Club: The president of the club reached out, and weirdly said they have no record of my grandparents of anyone with the name Richard Dietz in their records. I feel this must be an error, as some of you found their names in other things.
• International: Someone on one of the Facebook groups said I should check in with international Model T groups, like in the UK. They said a lot of them are being imported there. If that's the case, I think this whole search will have reached a dead end. I'm still going on with the hopes that it's still in California or, at least, the USA.
• CHP: Still nothing back from them, but I realized that I have a friend who just retired from the Sherrif. He might have some contacts that might be able to run a search on the 6408 number and see what it is and if it still exists.

[RGould1910]

Just a bit of info on a 4 digit engine number. I once owned a Model N with the serial no. 1948 or 1848 dont remember exactly. There was a cloud on title so I had Calif do a DMV seach for vehicles with that number. Being so short a number, many vehicles other than cars came up with that number. They told me thay could only search a specific number of vehicles, 10 if memory serves, but provided a printout of what they found. My vehicle was not listed but they did issue me a pink slip which gave me a presumption of ownership.

[WarbirdPhotog]

DMV Update: I got a message back from the DMV just now. They said I need to fill out an INF 70 form. I asked them if they would even have a record for a vehicle sold 13 years ago and they said:

If the new owner completed the title transfer, the record should still exist. Please complete the Request for Record Information (INF 70) form to request for information regarding a vehicle.

So, I guess that would rely on IF a proper transaction of the title took place. I suppose it's worth the $5 to try and see. I'm hoping the person who might have some law enforcement connections can have them run the 6408 number and see what it is.

[TRDxB2]

Just a bit of info on a 4 digit engine number. I once owned a Model N with the serial no. 1948 or 1848 dont remember exactly. There was a cloud on title so I had Calif do a DMV seach for vehicles with that number. Being so short a number, many vehicles other than cars came up with that number. They told me thay could only search a specific number of vehicles, 10 if memory serves, but provided a printout of what they found. My vehicle was not listed but they did issue me a pink slip which gave me a presumption of ownership.

Thanks for bringing this up. A fact that is often forgotten about how cars were registered back in the day... The unique identifiers were Make, Model & Engine number. For was not the only manufacturer to use numbers from 1 to 15,000,000. Today's Modern cars get a unique VIV number that is the predominate tracking number. It is a so called "smart number" with various positions dedicated to identify (used codes) to identify country of origin, make model, option se etc and tends with serial number. A Model T registration may contain only the engine number. The make & model , owner etc are just data under that number. Now Today's database isn't just cars, but motorcycles, trailers, off road vehicles, farm equipment, boats etc.
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[KWTownsend]

I filled out my INF 70 form a week ago to get written documentation that my untitled speedster was never tited in California. The nice lady on the phone ran the serial number for me and said that it had never been titled in California. I asked if I could get that in writing she said I'd have to fill out the form... then I will take it along with my Washington and Idaho title search results to the Oregon DMV so I can get my title. I feel like a kid waiting my 4-6 weeks for my prize after sending in box tops!

I'm hoping the four digits were a Horseless Carriage license plate number.

CA DMV should be able to find it if it was.

[George Mills]

Warbird...

Notice your 'International' comment...

There is a sister club to this, called Model T International. Their executive director is in Michigan, as I think now is their registered addy.

Anyway, they were constantly producing bi-annual or so locator books, hard copy at that, with members names and addy's and then cross reference files like who lived close to who. For a while they also had a Secretary, Jerry Flory (long passed), who if you sent him a zip code...he'd (snail) mail you back a list of T- folks in that zip code and adjacent ones.

Needle in a haystack, but another avenue that 'may' hold some promise. Don't know how they operate today with folks all wonky about privacy, but give them a shout?

[WarbirdPhotog]

I filled out my INF 70 form a week ago to get written documentation that my untitled speedster was never tited in California. The nice lady on the phone ran the serial number for me and said that it had never been titled in California. I asked if I could get that in writing she said I'd have to fill out the form... then I will take it along with my Washington and Idaho title search results to the Oregon DMV so I can get my title. I feel like a kid waiting my 4-6 weeks for my prize after sending in box tops!

I'm hoping the four digits were a Horseless Carriage license plate number.

CA DMV should be able to find it if it was.

I did reach out to a friend in law enforcement to see if he has any connections that can at least see what the 6408 number is... VIN, CAIN, or Horseless Carriage. I think that'll help a lot when it comes to the DMV. But I do still plan to submit the INF 70. I have nothing to lose except a few bucks.

[Dodge]

If your going to run the 6408 like its a Horseless Carriage plate you need to put HC in front of the number: HC6408 or it won't come up.
I've been thru this with CA DMV on several occasions. They don't even know it needs to be done.
On the plus side when you go over a automated toll bridge it doesn't pick up the plate either........

[WarbirdPhotog]

If your going to run the 6408 like its a Horseless Carriage plate you need to put HC in front of the number: HC6408 or it won't come up.
I've been thru this with CA DMV on several occasions. They don't even know it needs to be done.
On the plus side when you go over a automated toll bridge it doesn't pick up the plate either........

Thanks for the info! That'll be very helpful when I submit to the DMV.

[Colin Mavins]

2005

[WarbirdPhotog]

2005

That's amazing! Thank you so much for posting that photo! I'll share it with the family, they'll love to see it as well.

And that confirms that, at least, the HC plates were on it, and it appears to be a short number. So, maybe the 6408 is the HC plates. That might be helpful when it comes to the DMV (filling out the form this weekend)

[Colin Mavins]

The pic in the book would have been submitted by your Grandfather

[WarbirdPhotog]

The pic in the book would have been submitted by your Grandfather

Thanks for the clarification. I don't recall ever seeing this photo, however. Granted, we don't have many, but I'm sure many in my family still haven't seen it and will love it.

[Colin Mavins]

Dad sent in a picture of are 1912 , he wanted to show the car existed . In Canada cars tend to disappear and he has left a trail to follow if need be. cheers Colin

[WarbirdPhotog]

The DMV forms are away! Let's cross our fingers we get something back... no other updates at this point.
Please share this story and keep a lookout for that Model T, even in photos! If no one has modified/changed the hood in the last 13 years, then it'll still have the nine louvres.