Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

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fireheadman
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Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:02 pm

May have the thread moved to a new location if a build location/section is created?
Otherwise, I plan on posting frequently here for any/all things related to this vehicle. Hopefully everyone enjoys the thread.


So here I go... (a more detailed intro)

[Intro]
This the start of a new project for me. It's been 4 decades in the making, just waiting for me to have the opportunity to lay my hands on her. I'm Ben and this is my Model-T. My grandfather loved antique cars with an extreme passion. He had a garage full of them that he tinkered on all the time. He was the president of the Ark-La_Tex Antique Car Association and this vehicle is one he favorites. It was driven in the Holiday in Dixie parades every year with his grandchildren riding on his lap. I was always excited to visit my grandparents growing up just to be able to see the Pie Wagon, but God-forbid any of us climb into the cab without permission :shock: :evil:

My grandfather passed in his early 90's (the year I returned from from the Marine Corps) and to my surprise, nobody in the family took immediate possession of the pie wagon. It sat in the garage for a number of years longer before being sold to Wray Ford (dealership) -- https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/m ... /24800205/ -- I was unaware of this as I was now living in Colorado. This was about 5-6 years before Covid spun up. Once I found out, I started contacting the dealership every year to ask if I could buy it back... until then, she was on display to the public and safe from anyone putting their hands on her. I finally got my chance! I was moving my parents up to Colorado and decided to stop by the dealership for a "last time" to ask. They told me Covid was not helping with car sales and it was time for a change, so my offer was accepted and I setup a shipping date.

Now the real surprise was about a month later, when I brought my dad outside, he had no clue I bought it back. We watched his facial expressions as an 18-wheeler dropped its loading door down and slowly backed out the pie wagon. That was a great day for us! So now she sits in my barn protected, but needs a little tlc to get her running again. I'm looking forward driving her in parades again.

Dealership photo.jpg
20141126_181248.jpg

[Now]
Since I am now the owner, I've gone a couple ways in my head as to what to do.
She has sat in my barn for the past 5 years doing nothing and I've always been curious what it would take to make her run again or how safe would it be to drive on today's roads. I really didn't know where to go or who to reach out to for help as the last person I knew passed from Covid. Given all that, I ended up losing my father late last year to Parkinson's, so I felt like the journey was coming to an end (before it really even started).

So did what I shouldn't have done and posted her for sale. Luckily I had no clue what she was worth and something told me to start really high, so I did. To my surprise I had just 1 scammer (they wanted me to produce a window sticker) and then a week later 2 others reached out to me... but not to buy, just to talk to me about the pie wagon. It was these 2 individuals and their conversations that made me realize there is a great community (an active at that) that could help me. So I unlisted the pie wagon and joined both communities... The Mile High Pedal Pushers and the MTFCA. I believe both of those individuals are members on this forum, so I can't say thank you enough :!: :!: You've rekindled my aspirations and I think there are 2 people up above guiding me.
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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:07 pm

reserving this for some photos

In the meantime, here is a walk around I took a couple weekends ago. Just washed the dust off her.
https://youtu.be/nywJRSV3TEY

As I am quickly learning, this isn't a "true" 1911 Model-T.
I seem to have a frankenstien Model-T that my grandfather modified over time.

So if ya see something out of place or from another era/year, let me know. I do not have any intentions of changing anything to put her back to original. I am more interested in making her run and let other enjoy the history. So aside from the body being a aftermarket (guessing a commerial delivery body or some type?), the rest is just original from whatever year.
Last edited by fireheadman on Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:09 pm

here's something I am curious about... in the back of the pie wagon are a few parts (black metal pieces) that I am unsure where they go to.
Looks like maybe they go under the cab or in the engine compartment? Or maybe they dont go anywhere are are for some other vehicle?

anyone know something about these?
25-07-28 15-35-08 7386.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:55 pm

Appear to be some type of engine compartments pans & a set of '26 - '27 hood shelves. Nice rig, by the way !


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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:06 pm

1912 was basically the only model year in which Ford offered the model T in a Ford factory supplied delivery car. However, literally hundreds of after-market coach builders offered locally built bodies for the model T all across the country and even around the world during all years of the model T.
Modern era reproductions of the delivery car bodies have been offered since the 1950s and are still available today.
Regardless the body's origin, it is a wonderful looking and well styled model T delivery car!
Enjoy it, and drive it often.

Model T Fords handle local driving very well. And many people still enjoy driving them on long trips. To begin with, avoid high speed roads, and make sure the T is well sorted to function properly. Brakes are not great, but with extra care they are adequate. Modern braking "improvements" are available, however some people love those, and others do not like them. (I prefer my cars "era correct".)

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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:21 pm

RajoRacer wrote:
Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:55 pm
Appear to be some type of engine compartments pans & a set of '26 - '27 hood shelves. Nice rig, by the way !
Thanks for that info... I will set these aside for now, this was driving me crazing trying to figure out how/where they mounted.

Wayne Sheldon wrote:
Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:06 pm
1912 was basically the only model year in which Ford offered the model T in a Ford factory supplied delivery car. However, literally hundreds of after-market coach builders offered locally built bodies for the model T all across the country and even around the world during all years of the model T.
Modern era reproductions of the delivery car bodies have been offered since the 1950s and are still available today.
Regardless the body's origin, it is a wonderful looking and well styled model T delivery car!
Enjoy it, and drive it often.

Model T Fords handle local driving very well. And many people still enjoy driving them on long trips. To begin with, avoid high speed roads, and make sure the T is well sorted to function properly. Brakes are not great, but with extra care they are adequate. Modern braking "improvements" are available, however some people love those, and others do not like them. (I prefer my cars "era correct".)
brakes are #1 on my list once I know she will run good. Guessing there might be a few stories and posts about the different types on this forum.
Correct me where wrong on this...

Rocky Mountain Brakes:
  • concerned with them not stopping to great when wet
  • the lack of braking in reverse
  • better appearance and more fitting to the era
  • cost effection upgrade from stock with minor modification to brake pedal
Sure Stop Brakes:
  • stops in either direction with most control and in wet conditions
  • can present a disturbing appearance to some people seeing discs on a wooden spoked wheel vehicle
  • requires a little more modification and more expensive upgrade than RMB unit
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by A Whiteman » Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:27 pm

Hi Ben, thanks for sharing your great story. Welcome to the 'affliction' as it is known! :-)
Enjoy the journey
Kind regards
Adrian

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Tbird » Mon Aug 11, 2025 4:31 pm

Ben, Welcome to the forum! What a great story and a great piece of automotive history you have there! It looks like a real fun ride! Enjoy what you have and fix what's important to make it safe and roadworthy, the smaller stuff "incorrect/modified" things can be replaced one piece at a time or not at all. The most important thing is to enjoy it, most people will probably say it's a Model A and their grandpa had one exactly like it... lol
Keep us updated!


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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 11, 2025 7:21 pm

Hello Ben. You are blessed with a really nice, interesting car. Being a commercial vehicle makes it all the more interesting.

I would not be in a rush to fit any aftermarket brakes. They work only on the back wheels, and they rely on the same skinny footprint as the standard T foot brake. If you have to, the T brakes will lock the back wheels, like the accessory ones. Accessory brakes can be re-assuring, but if you drive a T in a manner which makes you dependent on them, you are asking too much.

Rather, I would encourage you to learn to drive the car within it's capabilities. Drive at T speeds, leave plenty of room to stop, plan stops ahead as much as you can, use the engine to brake, and drive as though every other driver is a nitwit. An old timer advised me to drive as though you have no brakes. This is a challenge that I often take up around town, and it involves all of the above tips.

Others will have different perspectives.

Allan from down under.

Allan from down under

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:55 pm

Made some big progress today.... Ron (our president of the Mile High Pedal Pushers) came out this morning to take a look and work his magic on her. Here's a couple videos of the 1st Day Running in a long time! I'm pretty stoked about this.

I now have a laundry list of things to replace, rebuild, tweak/tune....etc.
So glad this is working out this way!

Here's a couple videos I took today. (Question: Is there a way to post inline videos or just links is what we have available?)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F0fsKMiM2Pk

I didn't realize the workout you get from starting these things...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/B41nnYCMK1Y

I'll post a list of things I need to do.....
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by perry kete » Wed Aug 13, 2025 6:34 pm

So glad you got it running but you may want to be careful using your right hand to crank it with. Check past forum posts on using your left hand to prevent a broken arm if it kicks back on you.
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring


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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by mtntee20 » Wed Aug 13, 2025 8:31 pm

Ben, That's so exciting to see her run!
If Ron can't get it done, no one can.

I know most of us are right handed but cranking left handed is much safer!

I hope you can make it up to the Fairmount Cemetery show on Sunday. I would NOT recommend driving you truck that far until you have more drive time locally to expose any problems. You don't want to get stuck / broken down between Castle Rock and Aurora.

CONGRATULATIONS on the first start. Always an exciting event and extremely satisfying.

Terry


















1


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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:19 pm

Sounds sweet Ben. Starting gets much easier as the car is limbered up and the starter becomes more familiar with the process. You will get the hang of it. I'd love a workspace like you have!
Hand cranking can be injurious. The correct timing is essential, and setting the advance/retard lever is critical in this. The correct grip on the handle also helps. Keep the thumb on the same side of the handle as the fingers, whether you use your left or right hand. Always engage the handle so you are bulling up when cranking. A quick tug upwards over one compression will do the trick. Stem winding over multi compressions invites problems, as can pushing down to crank. A backfire in either of these two activities invites serious consequences to hands, arms and shoulders.
Happy motoring.
Allan from down under.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:29 pm

Tried it this evening with the left hand/arm... since I"m new to this it should be a quick and easy adjustment for me.
Showed my uncle the video, he turns 96 tomorrow and was very impressed, excited and proud to see her running again.

Gotta start my parts list tomorrow..

Appreciate all the comments!
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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Aug 15, 2025 6:35 pm

First order for parts placed (ended up using Langs - Steve is awesome)
Here is the list of parts and numbers I went with:

Code: Select all

Item 
Number  Qty     Description
------  ---     ------------------
2910	1	Gas feed pipe pack nut, brass, 2 per car - Year: 1906-1927
2913N	1	Feed pipe gasket, neoprene - Year: 1909-1927
3005	1	Cylinder outlet gasket, upper connection gasket - Year: 1909-1927
3061	1	Exhaust pipe pack nut, brass - Year: 1909-1927
3221ND	1	New Day timer with brush - Year: 1912-1927
3501WA	1	Wood rim (maple) for steering wheel, approx 15"" o.d., Unfinished - Year: 1913-1919
3502BR	1	Steering wheel rim brass screw set. - Year: 1909-1912
3511LC	1	Steering wheel nut, brass, low crown. Accessory - Year: 1909-1914
3846S	1	Oiler set, flip top style, 12 piece set - Year: 1917-1925
		Included Items:
		___4: 2715D Spindle & tie rod bolt oiler, flip top
		___8: 3846 Spring and perch oiler, flip top
4037C	1	Exhaust pipe, steel - Year: 1909-1927
5044	1	Terminal block for cars with wood firewall, 6 contact points - Year: 1919-1923
5201	4	Spark plug, Champion 25, non-original style - Year: 1909-1927
6055RE	1	Fuel shut off valve - Year: 1909-1927
WS2OR	1	Wiring Set, Show Quality, Original style wires - Year: 1919-1925
		Included Items:
		___1: 5029OR Original color and style spark plug wires
		___1: 5031 Commutator wire harness, (7 wire) original style
		___1: 5038 Ammeter to switch wire
		___1: 5041 Lighting harness, original style
		___1: 5042 Switch wire harness, original style
		___1: 5042H Horn wire set, black wire
ONE 
TIME 
ITEM	1	brass steering wheel spider for a 15" wheel
Other items in progress:
  • Having a rebuilt carburetor
  • Purchased a 12v battery,
  • Removing the hot-wire setup my grandfather installed and going back to a floor mounted starter (currently has a solenoid with single aux switch/push button mounted)
  • #55 key coming soon
  • Look out of hub caps
  • Either a Napa 3032 fuel filter or might go with a bulb style sediment filter w/petcock valve
  • Electric horn
  • Voltage regulator (12v) module for generator
  • Kevlar bands for transmission
  • Brakes (Rocky Mountain or Sure-Stop Discs) - unsure on this for now
  • Rear taillight (jeweled light w/license plate mount)
  • Upgrade all lights to leds
  • Install turn signals that are "fitting" to the Pie Wagon
  • Rebuild the exhaust dump valve
  • Increase starter swith to starter cable
  • Install battery disconnect switch
  • safety hubs
  • possibly a vin / id plate for firewall
  • new spare tire (old one is a dried up wards tire)
Last edited by fireheadman on Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Mark Nunn » Fri Aug 15, 2025 7:24 pm

Installing a fuel filter is the worst thing on your to-do list. Don't do it. It will give you more grief than it's worth. They are too restrictive and will starve your engine unless you have a non-stock fuel pump.


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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Fri Aug 15, 2025 8:30 pm

A model T horn will not appreciate 12 volts.
There are now LED headlight bulbs with their own built in lens/focus. Anything else is not fit for purpose.
Correct period looking turn signal lamps are contrary to fitting non period, easily seen LED headlight bulbs. I have turn signal lights on all my Ts. They need to be mounted so they are easily noticed by dozey drivers. Make them stick out rather than have them fade into the background. They are safety add ons, and there is no need to hide the fact.
Others will have differing opinions.
That is one lovely looking van. I am glad it has found a new caretaker, who will use it. Nothing keeps a T in good working order like regular use.

Allan from down under.

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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:00 am

Mark Nunn wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2025 7:24 pm
Installing a fuel filter is the worst thing on your to-do list. Don't do it. It will give you more grief than it's worth. They are too restrictive and will starve your engine unless you have a non-stock fuel pump.
This is the kind of info I like to hear about... everyone's trial by error stories.
I know it is gravity feed, so I can understand how this would have an impact on flow should it be constricted. I think maybe I will start first with removing the current tank and giving it a good flush/rinse. Being that I will most always be filling up at home, I could opt to use a pre-filter from the can to remove any large particles. As a side note and for as true as this might be?... I was amazed at the array of fueld types the "T" can handle.
Allan wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2025 8:30 pm
A model T horn will not appreciate 12 volts.
There are now LED headlight bulbs with their own built in lens/focus. Anything else is not fit for purpose.
Correct period looking turn signal lamps are contrary to fitting non period, easily seen LED headlight bulbs. I have turn signal lights on all my Ts. They need to be mounted so they are easily noticed by dozey drivers. Make them stick out rather than have them fade into the background. They are safety add ons, and there is no need to hide the fact.
Others will have differing opinions.
That is one lovely looking van. I am glad it has found a new caretaker, who will use it. Nothing keeps a T in good working order like regular use.

Allan from down under.
From talking with Steve (Langs), he breifly mentioned this to me... That there will be trade-offs (pros/cons) to 6v vs 12v. A couple of those being the starter and the horn being stressed out from 12v. It would wear out the starter quicker and make the horn louder, but reduce the life of it. Definitely something to consider. I definitely dont want to "hide" the turn signals from being seen when lit up and being they will be LEDs, I know they will be bright enough to see. I think there might be some inconspicious mount options to make them less noticeable when not in use. I like the idea of a retro fit led brake light in the rear license plate tail lamp
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by mbowen » Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:03 am

Allan wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2025 8:30 pm

There are now LED headlight bulbs with their own built in lens/focus. Anything else is not fit for purpose.



Allan from down under.
That hasn’t been my experience. I don’t drive a lot at night, but I’ve been extremely pleased with these for over 2 years on my 6-volt 1924 Touring (along with new reflectors). They were recommended elsewhere in this forum. The only drawback is that both “filaments” light up when either contact is energized, so I have “brights” with the switch in either position. Other drivers who have seen them on road say they are bright enough without being overpowering.

Edit: I run them in the daytime as well for recognition. I’ve set the third brush on my generator to charge about 2 amps with the lights on.

https://www.ledlight.com/led-headlight- ... rized.aspx
Product ID: 74475
Product Name: BA15D LED Headlight 5 To 30 Volt Dual Filament Non Polarized
Attributes: Color - White 6000K
Price: $19.59
Last edited by mbowen on Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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1925 Express Wagon “Clyde”

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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:10 am

Night driving is not something that interests me in colorado.... at least not in a Model T.
I live around an area that has elk, deer, and turkeys crossing the roads. Not interested in pairing up with those animals.... even if it is only 20-30mph.


And as for the fuel filter thought, is running the cast brass sediment bulb a little better or still present the same issue as a fuel filter (napa 3032) ?
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by mbowen » Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:39 am

fireheadman wrote:
Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:10 am



And as for the fuel filter thought, is running the cast brass sediment bulb a little better or still present the same issue as a fuel filter (napa 3032) ?
There’s lots of room below the screen in the sediment bulb, so trash will not have any effect on fuel flow until it gets up to the screen. Even then the screen is large enough that it would have to be nearly completely blocked to have an effect (I’ve been there). The petcock on the bottom of the sediment bowl drains the tank side of the screen, so it’s an easy task to periodically flush any accumulated debris.
Miles
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1925 Express Wagon “Clyde”

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fireheadman
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 16, 2025 4:30 pm

mbowen wrote:
Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:39 am
fireheadman wrote:
Sat Aug 16, 2025 12:10 am



And as for the fuel filter thought, is running the cast brass sediment bulb a little better or still present the same issue as a fuel filter (napa 3032) ?
There’s lots of room below the screen in the sediment bulb, so trash will not have any effect on fuel flow until it gets up to the screen. Even then the screen is large enough that it would have to be nearly completely blocked to have an effect (I’ve been there). The petcock on the bottom of the sediment bowl drains the tank side of the screen, so it’s an easy task to periodically flush any accumulated debris.
perfect! ...and thanks for the confirmation on that.
now just need to locate one
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 23, 2025 4:06 pm

Should have some new pictures later this weekend...
Was up til 2:30a removing the old hardnesses and installing the new ones, along with new timer (New Day), spark plugs, terminal block.
Along the process I'm making small repairs to anything I see.

The upper radiator elbow ended up being cracked, so getting that replaced along with a new exhaust manifold (threads are too far gone).
Yanked out the solenoid + starter switch and going back to a floor switch, so that cleaned up a bunch of unnecessary wiring. Still waiting for my exhaust tubing to arrive.... Also need to pick up the modern seal (CR#9876) for the timer (removed the felt and tin plate).

Found a leak on the gas tank, also saw it has been welded with a plate on the bottom, so will just replace it with an oval tank so I can get back to normal connections and be leak free.

It's been fun so far!!


I'm labelling and ohm testing paths, which ended up being all for nothing since this was hot-wired and some of the wires were not in the correct placement.
25-08-22 20-50-58 7588.jpg
elbow is beyond repair with a nice crank on the lower part of it
25-08-22 20-03-45 7586.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 23, 2025 5:48 pm

once the plug wires arrive it will finish this off...

I may or may not swap the terminal block out and/or might install some brass screws w/acorn nuts through the firewall to get a better grip on the termination ends. This block attaches only by the 6 screws, which made me nervous when tightening them up, some of the wires were still loose until I really torqued on them.

Overall, I am impressed with the new harnesses (from Langs).
25-08-23 15-23-58 7604.jpg
I need to get some new screws/washers for the switch, had a couple washer turn to dust on removal
25-08-23 15-23-35 7603.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Aug 23, 2025 10:02 pm

thinking maybe a rebuild kit on the muffler...
25-08-23 19-00-24 7606.jpg
these ended up cleaning up pretty good.
25-08-23 19-20-26 7607.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:47 am

Ben, the wiring loom and the terminal block are later additions on a brass car, so you are going along with previous adaptions. The terminal block screws are usually 3/4" long, so they will not pierce the inside of the firewall by the thickness of the back of the terminal block. If you really had to torque them up it may be that the holes should have been pre-drilled. I would not be concerned about bolting the block in place. 6 screws with 1/2' of engagement is plenty.

Hope this helps. Allan from down under.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Mon Aug 25, 2025 10:53 am

I was able to sink them in on the 3rd try. thankfully it is older wood (tighter grain)... I'm always cautious now from working with newer wood having a loose grain. she's starting to come together more!
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Tue Aug 26, 2025 5:37 pm

Next order (this time trying out Snyders) and have another from Langs (need to verify a couple things first)

Code: Select all

Item 
Number  	Qty     Description
------  	---     ------------------
T-3064		1	Gland rings - 09-27
T-3060-B	1	Exhaust Manifold - 09-27
T-3063-C	1	Copper manifold gaskets - 09-27
T-4026-SHELL	1	SHell kit 3-bolt style - 09-17
T-4025-S	1	Muffler shell bolts (3x) - 17-20
A-14300-D	1	Battery Disconnect switch - 28-31
A-14301		1	Ground Strap - 28-31
T-5152		1	Battery Hold Down Clamp Set - 19-22
T-4814-B	2	Brass Step Plates - 09-27
1090-B		2	Brass Step Plate mounting screws -09-27
Need to verify the gas tank (oval) measurements and placement of sediment filter
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:49 pm

Ben, do yourself a favour and forget the T 3063 manifold gaskets and the T 3064 split gland rings. The gland rings need to be able to keep the new manifold in place to stop it warping. I have found the rear one to be a real problem, perhaps because it didn't fit in a warped manifold in the first place. They can distort, assume all sorts of shapes and still let the manifold "walk" up and down on the block surface with the heat cycles.
There is a far superior one piece heavy copper gland ring available. I couldn't find it in lang's on-line catalog but Snyder's list it as T-3063-CR at $38.95 for a set of six pieces. These are thick enough that you can even file a short taper on the mating ends to aid in fitting. They are not cheap, but they are re-usable over again. They are certainly cheap insurance to stop your new manifold joining the big pile of warped originals.

If this insurance is too much, at least cut your own rings from suitable tubing rather than use the flimsy rolled T 3064 items.They might hold the copper gasket rings in place while fitting the manifold, but they will not support the manifold well.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
PS I have suggested before that the good ones are readily available directly from FTRS in Queensland at a far keener price, but that flies out the window with the beautiful tariff imposition of $80 being touted on parcels. 10% on $800 parcels or $80 minimum on parcels of lesser value.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Tue Aug 26, 2025 10:57 pm

Appreciate the tip on this. I’ll take a look on their site and see if Kevin can make an adjustment.

you are referring to these...
Screenshot 2025-08-27 at 4.18.31 PM.png
Last edited by fireheadman on Wed Aug 27, 2025 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Aug 27, 2025 10:17 am

Ben - you will soon learn that just about everyone that participates in the Forum discussions here have their own particular way of repairing or a maintenance program - choose the information wisely - not all of it is "Gospel" !

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Aug 27, 2025 1:05 pm

wish this forum was running a more modern software version that allowed a quick :D or thumbs up gesture without needing to respond all the time.

even inline videos from attachments and/or from youtube.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Aug 27, 2025 6:14 pm

Got the 3rd order in today....
I will still need to get something for filtering the fuel (still debating the options mentioned in the sediment bowl thread)

Code: Select all

Item 
Number  	Qty     Description
------  	---     ------------------
2900TF		1	Oval gas tank - 09-27
2913N		1	neoprene fuel gasket - 09-27
2910		1	brass packing nut - 09-27
3177OS		2	modern neoprene seal - 14-27 (in case I mess the first one up on install)
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Tue Sep 02, 2025 11:46 pm

Here a little more progress...

Got the exhaust manifold off, cleaned up the ports best I could... was able to scrape out most of the carbon/gunk. Painted the intake manifold since it was messy looking. Wish I had the urge to paint the block and head, but to do it right would mean pulling it, so I'll save that for another day.

For now I will be going with the gasket I purchased and if/should it cause me issues then I will go with the other type that was mentioned. Being that is what was already on there and it didn't look too terribly bad, I think it will be fine. Will use some permatex copper spray on the exhaust ports of the gasket to help with the seal. Also going to look at replacing the studs (still need to inspect those).

Engine
25-09-02 17-19-33 7637.png
25-09-02 17-58-31 7640.png
Manifold
25-09-02 18-08-31 7646.png
25-09-02 18-08-47 7647.png
25-09-02 17-20-49 7638.png
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Tue Sep 02, 2025 11:49 pm

some more....
For paint, I am just using what I have on hand. Which is a "Bobcat" branded charcoal enamel paint. It seems to have a since sheen and color that is neutral.

glands seated
25-09-02 18-39-13 7649.png
25-09-02 18-38-25 7648.png
intake manifold (painted)
25-09-02 18-40-47 7650.png
muffler ends and manifold stays/clamps (whatever you call them)
25-09-02 19-35-03 7657.png
Last edited by fireheadman on Tue Sep 02, 2025 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Tue Sep 02, 2025 11:53 pm

and last (for the evening)

The steering wheel.
Figured since I will be staring at this a lot I might as well make it nice.
Steve (Langs) had an original brass spider, think this one is from 1912 or 1913? I need to get it polished.
Went with a red, chestnut stain and will use some varathan spar poly on it in satin.

Still needs one more coat of stain tomorrow... (this is a maple 15" wheel) -- downgrading from a 16".
25-09-02 18-54-44 7652.png
25-09-02 18-55-53 7654.png
25-09-02 18-59-15 7655.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Wed Sep 03, 2025 12:23 am

Two things. Scratch the three freeze plugs to see if they are brass. If not, now is the time to replace them.
Second, when the two 3 In 1 gaskets are re-used, the separate rolled steel gland rings are not used. There is already a flimsy gland as part of the gasket.
Search the forum for warped manifold posts, straightening exhaust manifolds etc. You have the ideal opportunity to never have need of these posts if you take steps NOW to prevent your new manifold from warping.

Allan from down under.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Sep 03, 2025 9:46 am

Allan wrote:
Wed Sep 03, 2025 12:23 am
Two things. Scratch the three freeze plugs to see if they are brass. If not, now is the time to replace them.
Second, when the two 3 In 1 gaskets are re-used, the separate rolled steel gland rings are not used. There is already a flimsy gland as part of the gasket.
Search the forum for warped manifold posts, straightening exhaust manifolds etc. You have the ideal opportunity to never have need of these posts if you take steps NOW to prevent your new manifold from warping.

Allan from down under.
well that's what I'm here for.... to make sure I do it and do it right! THanks for keeping me straight Allan!
I'll check on the freeze plugs and I understand what you are saying now (read a several of the threads about warped manifolds). I see now that ones I bought are specifically for slightly warped heads. I'll get those ordered today and will put these on the shelf for when mine new manifold warps. :D
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Wed Sep 03, 2025 6:34 pm

ok... 3rd order
Sending back the 3-n-1 Gaskets as I know what these are for.
One of my brass side steps was messed up in shipment from Synders, so they are sending a replacement w/RMA tag, so will just throw that and the slip in that box for a refund.

Ordered from Synders and Langs on this one..

Code: Select all

Item 
Number  	Qty     Description
------  	---     ------------------
3066-6B		4	Manifold clamp stud and nut - 09-23 (Langs)
4134		2	Carb to Manifold gasket (2x) - 09-26 (Langs)
T-3063-CR	1	Copper Manifold gasket set - 09-27 (Synders)
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Wed Sep 03, 2025 9:33 pm

Ben, with solid glands cut from tubing, your new manifold will not warp. The glands prevent it from moving at the ports. The set of six individual,heavy copper gaskets do the same. They hold the manifold in place in the same way, at the same time affording the seal that the little copper rings do with the junk split glands do.

Allan from down under.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 1:51 pm

ok, so I'm thinking about offering a special to weld up these muffler kits so they dont come apart on backfiring..
pretty quick turn around, did this one in about 10min or less.
Any takers? once they are painted up I bet you wont even notice all the slag/mess... you can just rotate that to the top and call it good!!
25-09-04 20-04-48 7685.jpg
25-09-04 20-05-36 7686.jpg
Just kidding, I kinda knew this would happen... just couldn't resist the urge to turn on my dad's old lincoln welder.
The first contact immediately blew a hole right through it (had it set to 90amps)... oops! Then tried closing up the holes at 40amps.

Thinking the cast iron ends will look nice on the shelf and I will go with a steel end muffler.
Hoping those sound decent!?
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 2:20 pm

Moving onto the timer upgrade...
I bought 2 seals incase I messed up the first one (which I royally did!). Forgot about the tin can shim trick.... Could have been I was still drinking my shim and just didn't register right away?!

And as usual, one project leads to another project! :roll:
I had to pull the radiator off to extract my 1st seal install attempt, now I have the radiator project to do (coming soon).
Also had to pull the coil box off to get to the radiator support rod, so will be cleaning up the coil box points, isolators, nuts...etc (also coming soon)

Here's the new seal, which went in really nice. Wasn't too tight, just snug enough that I needed some gentle taps to seat it.
Only thing I forgot to check was if the camshaft pin hole was drilled through, guess on the next start up I will find out about that. (got a 50/50 chance on that)
25-09-04 20-55-01 7690.jpg
25-09-04 21-01-54 7693.jpg
25-09-04 21-10-09 7696.jpg
25-09-04 21-29-59 7698.jpg
Last edited by fireheadman on Fri Sep 05, 2025 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 2:25 pm

A question I have on the fan bracket --- I'm guessing this bolt is not original.
The castle nut barely grabs it and doesn't spin (too tight of clearance around it to spin)

Should this bolt be longer and should there be a nut on it?
25-09-04 22-18-40 7704.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by speedytinc » Fri Sep 05, 2025 3:31 pm

No nut. Remove it, find the cotter pin hole & pin it.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by DanTreace » Fri Sep 05, 2025 4:19 pm

Fan bolt is locked with cotter against the block, keeps fan bolt in adjustment so it won't work loose and have a fan rattle.
locking cotter.jpg
locking cotter.jpg (37.91 KiB) Viewed 163 times

And on your timer install, removed the nut below the terminals of the timer case, reverse the bolt on the front plate there, so only the head of the bolt is exposed. Nut goes under the pan.


Reason is the timer terminal there, when rotated from retard to advance, could hit the raised nut, ground out, and cause a mis fire.

Bolt head down under timer.jpeg

Wrong way :o



front plate bolt strike .jpg
front plate bolt strike .jpg (128.13 KiB) Viewed 163 times
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Allan » Fri Sep 05, 2025 6:01 pm

As stated, there is no nut on the fan shaft. The split pin is there just to stop it backing off it gets loose, rather than locking it. It makes it easier to adjust the belt tension. Just back the bolt off a bit, and adjust the tensioning bolt. There is no need to do anything with the split pin to do this adjustment.

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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 8:25 pm

DanTreace wrote:
Fri Sep 05, 2025 4:19 pm
Fan bolt is locked with cotter against the block, keeps fan bolt in adjustment so it won't work loose and have a fan rattle.

locking cotter.jpg


And on your timer install, removed the nut below the terminals of the timer case, reverse the bolt on the front plate there, so only the head of the bolt is exposed. Nut goes under the pan.
Glad you caught this.... no telling how many decades it has been like that. I get that corrected tomorrow!
And thanks for the fan bolt, I will also get a cotter pin in there, maybe add a washer also (if it makes sense)

Allan wrote:
Fri Sep 05, 2025 6:01 pm
As stated, there is no nut on the fan shaft. The split pin is there just to stop it backing off it gets loose, rather than locking it. It makes it easier to adjust the belt tension. Just back the bolt off a bit, and adjust the tensioning bolt. There is no need to do anything with the split pin to do this adjustment.

Allan from down under.
The cotter pin would be more of insurance for me in case I forget to check the position of the bolt.
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 8:34 pm

so here's where I am at now...

Ran into an issue with the water pump, will need to replace that or see if I can find the back piece of one.
2 of the screws were corroded and twisted off, I can now see why as the backs up them are exposed to the water/coolant the entire time.
25-09-05 14-43-42 7712.jpg
25-09-05 14-43-34 7711.jpg

When I took the lower radiator hose off I saw all the rust/mineral gunk and started cleaning that up...
25-09-05 14-10-14 7706.png

Then started with a shop vac and skinny hose to suck a lot of big pieces out of the head, tried using a long flat head and poked around to loosen up some other pieces. Wish I would have taken a picture first. It reminded me of a cave system with how the crust was forming. I couldn't reach very far in there so ended up using the garden hose with a "little john" sprayer. We run 71 psi off the well and with this sprayer it probably kicks it up to around 90psi. I did 5 flushes and caught everything in my oil changing pan.
25-09-05 18-00-43 7714.png
Then noticed a dirt dobber used the lower section of the radiator to make her nest, got that out of there!
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 8:38 pm

Here's the water pump....
25-09-05 14-41-36 7709.jpg
Guessing some of the cast iron chunks (maybe from the upper inlet elbow that broke off bent the impeller?
25-09-05 14-41-55 7710.png
Then made my way to a nice crack (I likely cause then trying to use a screw extactor to remove the sheared screw)
25-09-05 16-08-45 7713.png
25-09-05 14-40-57 7708.jpg
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Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Sep 05, 2025 9:00 pm

And this, boys and girls, is why you want to run coolant in your engine and not straight water.
Scott Conger

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Location: Castle Rock, CO

Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 9:16 pm

could not agree more!.... praying I have the big chunks out. I also forward and reverse flushed the radiator.
wondering if there is a concoction of something I can use to flush it some more?

I've heard that vinegar will dissolve rust...then flush a few more times?
Member: Mile High Pedal Pushers - Denver, Colorado Chapter


mtntee20
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm
First Name: Terry & Sharon
Last Name: Miller
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Center Door, 1920 TTWood cab Farm Truck with cable dump grain bed, 1920 TT C-Cab with express bed, 1927 Wood body Dairy Delivery truck
Location: Westminster, CO
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by mtntee20 » Fri Sep 05, 2025 10:24 pm

Ben,

Steve Jelf has a great video on flushing the engine and radiator.

Good Luck

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fireheadman
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:26 pm
First Name: Ben
Last Name: Piraro
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Model-T Pie Wagon
Location: Castle Rock, CO

Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Fri Sep 05, 2025 11:34 pm

I'm in need of more than luck..... where do I find the video at? Been searching for a few min and not coming up with anything
mtntee20 wrote:
Fri Sep 05, 2025 10:24 pm
Ben,

Steve Jelf has a great video on flushing the engine and radiator.

Good Luck
Thanks
EDIT: Maybe this is it...
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG96.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3nkPm87X0

EDIT2: I will need to wait until I can move her outside the barn for this.... looks like a lot of water going everywhere. But I bet that would help move out the stubborn particles after a vinegar soak loosens them up... just need to find a good ridge wire extension with a frayed end to stick in the drill
Member: Mile High Pedal Pushers - Denver, Colorado Chapter

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Topic author
fireheadman
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:26 pm
First Name: Ben
Last Name: Piraro
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Model-T Pie Wagon
Location: Castle Rock, CO

Re: Ben's Model-T Pie Wagon [1911-1925]

Post by fireheadman » Sat Sep 06, 2025 1:17 am

...have been reading a lot of the archive articles on here about those that removed their waterpump to allow for the thermosiphoning to do its thing (as originally designed by Ford).

Kinda interested in seeing how that works out...
Member: Mile High Pedal Pushers - Denver, Colorado Chapter

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