Adding a starter to 1917 car?? Help requested!

[AdminJeff]

I just got this from a customer:

"My father is the proud owner of a 1917 Model-T and has owned it many years. He is 85 and still loves taking it to parades and car shows but it is getting hard for him to crank start it as he gets older. From what I know the electric starter wasn't used until 1919 and I don't think it's an easy addition to a 1917? How do I add one?"

I have to admit - I've never done this and can only assume what's involved: New hogshead, flywheel, ring gear, starter & bendix (of course), foot switch, upgraded wiring, battery box, battery, and????

Does anyone have a definitive guide on all the steps necessary to do this?

Jeff

[speedytinc]

Look thru the HH inspection cover for a ring gear. Maybe the previous owner or later ford mechanic already replaced it.
Maybe you got lucky, if not Pull the motor.
Replace the flywheel with any later with a ring gear. Replace the HH with a starter compatible 19-25 to retain the correct pedal spacing for the narrow brake The later low pedal is a bit different, so use the one from the later HH. If a narrow nose pan, no worry, it will fit. Magnets can be transferred or use the ones from the later flywheel. Check & Recharge them. Probably need a new ring gear & definitely new screws. Need a bendix, cover & starter.
Good time to freshen up the transmission, since it has to be disassembled/removed.

This is a conversion I have done on several T's for old guys.

[BE_ZERO_BE]

I did this on my '16.

Adding a Starter to a Non-Starter Model T Checklist

1. As stated, the flywheel will need to be changed to a later one with a ring gear.
  Replace the Magneto coil with one that has a notch for the starter
  This requires engine removal and disassembly. Most likely this will lead to “refreshing” the engine and transmission while you have it out.
2. Replace the Hogshead with a ’17–’25 starter hogshead. Buy a $tarter.
3. Install a 6-volt battery somewhere nice (not a small task).
4. Install a starter switch
Option 1. Add a traditional Model T starter switch
Option 2. Add a starter solenoid and starter button.
4. Run 00 gauge battery cables to the starter.
5. Solve a near infinite number of little details that will arise.
6. Contemplate an easy way to charge the battery.
Enjoy.

[Ed Fuller]

Also, replace the magneto coil with a later one that has the notch for the starter.

[BE_ZERO_BE]

I knew I would forget something.
Fixed it.

[AdminJeff]

Nice - I'll pass all this along!

thanks guys

Jeff

[Wayne Sheldon]

Just an FYI in case it may be helpful.

I helped a friend many years ago do this. In his case the early engine already had a flywheel with the ring gear. So it was not necessary to pull the engine.
The engine did NOT however have the field coil with a notch in it. He was getting all worked up over having to pull the engine just for that (it was a great driver car as it was!). So I reassured him, and volunteered to hand file a notch into the field coil, in the car.
I readied myself to a long slow battle, however I was surprised.
I grabbed the biggest best course rat-tail file I had, with the hogshead removed, I placed about four good strong magnets around and under where the notch went to catch the filings and hopefully keep them from the magneto magnets. It was awkward, a few things were a bit in the way, and I had to be very careful in the close quarters to not nick the coils.
The surprise was that the cast iron the field coil was cast from was quite soft. Once I was settled in, it only took maybe ten minutes and I was done.
My magnets caught almost all the filings, and everything else went together just fine.

[TXGOAT2]

A major operation! Perhaps obtaining a second Model T with a starter would be a better option....?

[Oldav8tor]

I did the same to my 1917 Touring. Yes, it does require pulling the engine and the aforementioned modifications to the transmission. I didn't do it, rather had an experienced engine rebuilder do it as part of a total refresh. I went with a 12 volt AGM battery under the rear seat and instead of a foot switch I used a key switch mounted under the steering column (although you could mount it anywhere.) I tried an original Ford starter but replaced it with a modern, 12 volt WOSP starter for reliability.

The other issue is that there is no provision on a '17 for a generator. There are ways of installing a belt-driven alternator but I chose to go with a Regan "Hot Shot" charger which uses a little of the magneto's output to keep the battery charged if you don't run the headlights all the time.

[speedytinc]

Also, replace the magneto coil with a later one that has the notch for the starter.

No need to replace.
File or grind the notch in the current field coil..

[speedytinc]

I like mounting a period battery box with a full sized group 1 on the left running board.
A stock battery box mount (19-27) can be mounted, especially easy to access in a touring. Roadster would need the trunk floor cut.
I do rectify the magneto to keep the battery charged.
However, if the battery (group 1) is kept charged, It will run a T for a day or 2 using the starter.

[AndyClary]

The hardest part is finding a decent starter.

Andy

[Erik Johnson]

Since he is 85, it may be simpler to find an enthusiastic neighborhood kid/young adult willing to do the cranking and be a driving companion.

If he were 65 and was just tired of cranking but planning on driving for the next 25-30 years, then I would go through all the monkey business of adding a starter.

I did all the cranking for my father in his later years. He voluntarily quit driving at age 89. He's currently 93.

[Dan Hatch]

When I get a customer with a non starter, I always ask if they want to charge it now. Lot easier now than later.

[speedytinc]

When I get a customer with a non starter, I always ask if they want to charge it now. Lot easier now than later.

Smart!. Changing the flywheel during a rebuild makes the conversion easy years later.
The HH can be changed anytime & a starter added.

[Norman Kling]

If you have a good battery, and the magneto is in working condition, you can do as I did for many months until I was able to get a rebuilt Generator for my 26.I charged the battery at home and as soon as it started I switched to magneto. The battery would start many times on a charge. It was only used for starting. The magneto ran the car after it started. Worked good enough for long tours where we made quite a few stops. Then when I got home I would recharge the battery..
Norm

[DanTreace]

Interesting conversion using new WOSP Performance mfg. parts , and WOSP 12v starter.

This ‘17 had ring gear, so these new parts were used.

Found pics on Facebook. Just another choice now. www.wosperformance.com

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Man that's a lot of work and $. I think I'd be looking for a decent starter engine as a replacement. When you figure all the known stuff you'll need to buy and then up the figure for unknowns/refreshing it can get really scarry.

[AdminJeff]

Interesting conversion using new WOSP Performance mfg. parts , and WOSP 12v starter.

different strokes, I guess. I'd be embarrassed to drive that around. IMHO, if you're gonna add parts to the exterior, at least use period stuff.

[Novice]

Jeff. A non conventional method might be a good option. Use a starter / generator like they used on John Deere Gators and a host of riding mowers made by Cub Cadet and others in the fifties and sixties by John Deer and others. Mount the starter on the front of the engine like a out board alternator on the drivers side. Belt driven with proper ratio pully. No need to change anything on the engine. No Bendix. No new ring gear and when the car is passed on starter and electrical relay can easily be removed so car is back to stock without altering the engine. The picture on this post with the alternator on the front of the engine is what I am talking about. Just use the starter motor / generator instead. Like a motorized crank.

[TXGOAT2]

A 45 amp six volt generator from an old Cadillac might do for a starter-generator. A T engine doesn't have to crank fast to start.

[TRDxB2]

A-B-C electric starter (front mount) getting it to work by H. Lee viewtopic.php?p=66554

[Craig Leach]

Free starts require T coils & fuel in the cylinder that sparks. Sometimes cranking to achieve the correct piston to spark timing. I have dabbled
with the idea of setting up a system for making it easier to accomplish this ( purchased the parts) but time has not been allocated to complete
& test. Using explosion whistle adaptors, very long reach spark plugs, primer cups & resetting compression releases so the cylinders can be
primed & the engine can be turned with much less effort. This may be a waste of time & effort but would like some feedback from those with
more experience as to the viability of this venture. I have worked on autos that use a similar system such as Packard. This could be a solution to starting non starter cars for those of us that have been fortunate to be here longer than our ability spin a crank handle.

Craig.