1909 Camshaft Bearings...

[VowellArt]

Does anybody know what these look like? I know what the rear one looks like and the middle one, but the front one (according to catalogs) is for 24-27....so, is the 1909 bearing different than this later one?

Also need to know which way the bearing clip goes, at the moment I've got it drawn on the top side of the bearing, because this puts the set screw hole perpendicular to the right side of the engine block.

[RGould1910]

09 to 23 front bearing was shaped different because the front cam lobes were not lengthened as were those on later camshafts. There are examples in quite a few sources eg Fahstocks articles, parts catalogues etc. I belive the Model T manual has illustrations.
There may be other changes I'm not aware of but that's the major difference.

[VowellArt]

Richard, you say it is shaped different, how, is it shorter? I've seen some 1909 camshafts and the wear on the front bearing cam surface shows that the bearing is almost right up against if not against the front cam lobe. I'm wondering if they made that particular end thicker, so as to keep the lobe from hanging up on the bearing.

As for getting pictures I don't have any of those sources you mentioned available to me, so I thought I'd ask y'all here what the bloody thing looks like and maybe even get a photo of one (don't need much, just a side view would be fine).

[Kerry]

Early bearings had no babbitt, don't know when the change, I'll check my stock of bearings later to see if I still have them.

[jsaylor]

Check this article by Glen Chaffin on Cams. Talks about end play and differences in early and late cams.

[Dan McEachern]

The "early" front cam shaft bearings have a notch on the rearward facing end. This notch was to provide clearance on the top side of the bearing for the #1 exhaust lifter. The earlier cams had a narrower front lobe than later camshafts. The notch was troublesome because the rear face, being interrupted, could not effectively control the forward thrust of the cam. Over time, the front cam lobe would begin to wear into the notch. I suspect this was not a great issue with the straight cut timing gears, but the introduction of the helical cam gears increased the forward thrust of the cam. Ford solved this by making the front cam lobe wider, which allowed for a shorter front bearing, eliminating the clearance issue with the valve lifter.

Kerry is correct, early cam bearings were not babbitt lined. The cam journals ran directly on the cast iron bearing.

[speedytinc]

Early, early cam bearings have no babbit. They also look radically different in that instead of the solid body as the later ones have, they have ribs, like cooling ribs that contact the block on those rib edges. Much less contact & wear those ribs into the block to fit looser faster.
I don't know when they changed to the solid type body. There must be guys out there that have found these early bearings in original motors that can narrow the time they were used.

[ewdysar]

Back to Martynn's original post. Can anyone provide a decent image of what the early front cam bearings look like? It sounds like he is working on another of his excellent mechanical drawings of the Model T components, and he would like this drawing to be as accurate as possible.

Keep crankin',
Eric

[Dan McEachern]

I will try to dig out an example of the style that John refers to above.

[Dan McEachern]

I will try to dig out an example of the style that John refers to above. On Edit- here are a few pictures of the true early cam bearing. This bearing has had the rear side ground off at some point (on the left in the pictures) so it appears shorter with the notch removed. This is the only example I had. The clip was still used in the center groove to hold the shells together.

[speedytinc]

Early cam bearings

I found 2 early cam bearings. The one on the left is like Dans. (not as clean)
The one on the right, I suspect is earlier.
You can see the part # in raised cast. T41 or T411.
Note there is 2 ring groves. One on each end. Only one ring installed.

Maybe some of the guys that work/have worked on early motors can tell us the correct years they were used.

[RVA23T]

Felt like the pic needed some help

[speedytinc]

Very nice.
It's all I can do to get my wife to take the pix, send to me, down load, resize, place, describe & not lose the whole mess & start over.
Therefore, your ability impresses me. Thank you.

[VowellArt]

Eric, you're correct, I'm drawing the 1909 Short Block for the Water Pump engine. After I make the Short Block, I'll draw the complete Engine Assembly, with the Transmission and the Water Pump assemblies. I'm doing this in a 2 page format mainly because there is just too much going on and into the engine, to be able to show it with any degree of detail on just one page (which is why it's got to be either two "A" size 8 1/2 x 11 or one "B" size 11 x 17 fold out...not sure which I'm going to do yet, still pondering it some...I hate fold-outs). I decided to start with the earliest Model T engine and work my way through to the later models.

Now those two bearings, are they both fronts or is one of them a middle? If it's not a middle bearing, would the middle bearing be like these but just a bit longer with those thin ribs and not like the later one which are a bit thicker. Also would they have two clips or just one like on later models?....I think what I'm going to do is draw both of those, put them in the drawing and let you guys tell me which one is correct, because I really don't know and I'd hate to go with my best guess, so I'll defer to you folks who may have either seen, worked on or have one of these cars or engines.

As for the PDF, problem with that is it's a copy of a copy of a copy (no detail, can't see anything but mud, but I do know about the notch, which I think is on the cam lobe side. The notch is for gathering oil to lubricate the bearing on the shaft, there's another on the rear bushing that does the same thing). If they wanted you to be able to copy it they would've printed off at 60 to 85 line screen, not 125 or 150 LS which is why they use higher LS, because it forces one to buy another copy of or loan out your copy of the book, most folks in the "Technical Information and Manuals" biz, want to sell their works not give it away for free. And I'm no different either, I give my work away for free true, but those are Vendor Part Numbers. but I'm intending to sell a book that covers the complete chassis from 1909-1927 for the cars and 1918-1927 for the truck. The difference will be that the book will not only have the Vendor Part Numbers like my drawings have now, but also the Ford Factory Numbers with Change Dates as well. So if you want to pay a visit to the Ford Archives, you can research every bloody part of the Model T car or truck there. Because the Librarians there, file the drawings by Ford Factory Numbers, not the Vendor Part Numbers.

[Dan McEachern]

Martynn- the one I posted the picture of was a front bearing. The non-modified end has a large radius on the bore on one end as do the later front bearings. This radius was necessary to allow clearance for the radius on the front cam journal adjacent to the flange. Too bad the one I have has been modified on the rear side......