How many spring leaves??

[frontyboy]

Building a 1914 speedster with a brass vee radiator and a dropped front axle. How many leaves can you remove from the front spring and still be safe? The bottom spring leave has been dearched some not sure how much..

For the rear spring how many leaves can be removed safely to lower the frame without Zeeing or cutting the frame. I'm using a 13/14 riveted rear end.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

tnx

frontyboy

[Allan]

I took two leaves out of the back spring on my speedster, the ones with just the one bend at the top so there was no problems with the nesting of the rest. I replaced them both, because the car rode like a sloppy jalopy, flopping around like crazy.
I would rather re-arch the front spring than remove leaves.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

Building a 1914 speedster with a brass vee radiator and a dropped front axle. How many leaves can you remove from the front spring and still be safe? The bottom spring leave has been dearched some not sure how much..
For the rear spring how many leaves can be removed safely to lower the frame without Zeeing or cutting the frame. I'm using a 13/14 riveted rear end.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
tnx
frontyboy

The front end drop for a speedsters is between 4-7 inches. That determination is how much clearance is needed for the oil pan or sump.
Re-arching the front spring gives about 1" drop, 1926-27 spindles about 3/4 in, a drop front axles vary so what's yours? A 1926-27 front spring has a lower arch. So answer you question about how man leaves - you need to do some calculations based on what you are using or using some other parts. Removing leaves adds another issue for the front spring clip to hold the spring leaves in position within the cross member.

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Since you re-arched then yo need to trim the ends of the leaf above the main https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 1261098993

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Rear Spring
Once again there are some differences in rear spring arches.
What are you working with. For example Roadsters (6 or 7 leaves): Lighter body styles like runabouts and roadsters used fewer leaves for a softer ride. A six-leaf option existed for some 1923–1925 roadsters.

This is a good discussion on various ways to lower the rear.
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/5 ... 1439594997

[KWTownsend]

Howard,
I'd have to count leaves in the springs.
Yvonne's speedster has a dropped front axle and bent rear spring for lowering. Drop by next time you are down south.

: ^ )

Keith

[TXGOAT2]

Springs have arch and stack thickness and RATE. Arch and stack thickness are physical dimensions. Rate is a measure of how much the spring deflects under a specific load.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Dick,
If you are running fenders & running boards the car will weigh in almost as heavy as a roadster. If the front spring does not have the eyes
reversed you will not need to shorten # 2 leaf. I took the top 2 out of the front & had a lower arch spring made for the rear with I think 3
less leaves & flat on the ends. No fenders & lite body I think it is a little soft sprung. The speedster I'm building will only have the top spring
removed & the second from the top shortened some. If you plan on running it hard you may want to put a truss rod on the rear axle.
Craig

[TXGOAT2]

If you bend a leaf spring as shown on the rear of the yellow car above, the bent leaves cannot slide on one another. For that reason, I would not use this method.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I would not remove ANY leaves. I did that with my Speedster and nearly got in a bad accident. The reduced leaf rear spring caused the rear end to hop violently as I hit a small bump while braking. The car came around sideways and only missed hitting a Ford Mustang, (who had cut me off btw ), due the Mustang driver seeing this odd, yellow car side-hopping its way towards him. He nailed the gas and got out of my way. After that, I put both springs back to stock design.

[TXGOAT2]

One property of all multi-leaf springs is inter-leaf friction. This friction can be a problem if it is excessive, such as may be the case with a dry and rusty spring. But it can also serve to damp the spring's flexing action, much like a shock absorber. Removing leaves from a multi-leaf spring will reduce inter-leaf friction, all else being equal. In the absence pf any kind of auxiliary shock absorbers, this could contribute to wheel hop, especially if the axle assembly is heavier than stock, such as a Ruxtel. Soft springs on a Model T or other transverse spring Fords will reduce roll stiffness, all else being equal. As late as 1971, some Ford F-3 one ton pickups were delivered without any rear shock absorbers. With 13 leaves in each rear spring and a high spring rate, shocks were considered unnecessary.

[Allan]

See my previous post. It seems others have had similar problems when removing leaves. if you don't bend or modify the leaves, at least you can make things right again.

Allan from down under.

[big2bird]

I used a reversed eye on the main leaf. I have long forgot who did it. Drops the car maybe 1-2" in back.

[Ed Fuller]

When I built my speedster I looked up springs in the encyclopedia. I found that the least amount of leaves used were 6 in the front and 6 on the rear for runabouts.

I removed enough leaves so I had six in each. I figured if Ford thought that many would work for a runabout, then I figured that many would work for my light speedster.

My rear is z’ed and I have Laurel style brackets in the front with ‘26-27 spindles.

[Allan]

Because of the multiple bends in most of the rear spring leaves, you can only remove those on top that have.just the one bend. Taking out other leavs will upset the stack, and compromise how the spring works.

Allan from down under.

[frontyboy]

I am incredibly happy with all the responses that I have gotten from the members here.
I have read measured, stacked and unstacked my springs that came with my project speedster.

After reading and rereading the responses, I have decided the following.

Due to the incredible responses here I found that my front spring has already been dearched and the rest of the stack has been shorten and flattened to match the main leaf, so that goes back in as received.

The rear spring was installed with the laurel frame extensions and extended rear frame cross member. Sort of a poor job so I had another early frame not cut up which I am using.

I am going to purchase an inverted eye rear main spring,and will shorten and remove as suggested several rear leaves.

AS I have decided to use a 26/27 Ruxstel the rear spring perches are straight rather that raised up that will allow the rear end to drop another nearly 2". Now to make sure the clearances below the pan are good I will assemble the chassis and place weights for the engine/transmission, radiator, body pieces, fenders, and misc bits and pieces. Once I'm satisfied with the transmission drain plug distance to floor, then disassemble the chassis and start painting. While paint is drying it will be time to start the engine assembly process. My goal is to be chassis assembled engine in wheels and tires on then fit the fenders, hood and radiator all by May 1st. Running and adjusting in July

I can't thank you responders for all the help and information offered. That's why this site so important and priceless

Thanks guys,

Frontyboy.

[Allan]

Sounds like a good plan. You might want to revisit your maths on the rear perches though. The 27 rear perches are straight, but they are also higher on the backing plate. The earlier perches do rise, but from a lower starting point. There may not be much difference in the end.
A spring reset may still be required.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

..................
I am going to purchase an inverted eye rear main spring,and will shorten and remove as suggested several rear leaves.
...............
Frontyboy.

You will have to have the eyes of your existing rear main lief inverted by revering the arch. No one is doing Model T' springs anymore.
This may be a long shot, but Speedway has a medium arch 2in reverse eye spring. the arch is 10" (note the spec say 11") but should give a 1" drop if it works. You may need to ask them for your application. The price for the entire spring is about what a single main lief would cost & they ship free. You would need to make up the difference in thickness in fitting & clamping in the rear cross member

[walber]

If you don't find a better answer, Gitts Spring 9in Auburn, WA https://gittspring.com/ should be able to reverse the eyes on your current rear spring and/or make a new main leaf for you. I went in to have front spring eyes reversed quite a few years ago and they built me a nice new front spring. I don't recall the cost but is seemed pretty reasonable at the time.

[Craig Leach]

I picked up one of the Speedway springs @ a swap meet hoping it would work! Found it to be about 5" to short. It is designed to be used with
the weld on spring mounts on a modern rear end.
Craig.

[Speedsterguy2]

Just a couple of observations: I reversed eyes on the rear spring, and flattened the arc some. I soon found that the eye-to-eye length had spread too long to fit between the backing plates. I had to have a new main leaf made with a shorter length, and the eyes already reversed. Found a truck spring repair place in downtown Portland that had the skills, equipment and interest.

Second, I was on a speedster run many years ago, following a car that had been lowered by bending the rear main leaf into a dropped "V" at each end. That car either hit a pothole or dropped a wheel off the side of the road. The rear suspension compressed violently, and the bottom of the bent "V" hit the axle housing. The rear spring snapped completely in the bottom of the "V", the driver lost control and the speedster flipped completely into the brush along the road. Luckily both occupants walked away in one piece.

[TXGOAT2]

If the " V" Involves 2 or more leaves, it will lock them together, making the spring very stiff. It also concentrates road forces at the V point, instead of the forces being applied along the free length of the spring. I would not use that method to lower a car.

[Allan]

No doubt the V is a result of some help with heat. I wonder if anything has ever been done to re-temper/ re-rate those modifications?

Allan from down under.

[TXGOAT2]

The V bends are made using heat. It's a very poor practice for several reasons. As previously mentioned, if the bend involves 2 or more leaves, it will jam the leaves and prevent them sliding on one another, which they must do for the spring to flex. Another issue is the right angle or near right angle bend in the leaf or leaves. You will NEVER see any such thing in any stock leaf spring. Besides the jamming/locking issue, the sharp bend concentrates forces at the bend. The jamming effect aggravates this. Leaf springs are made the way they are for good reasons. There are ways to modify a leaf spring without destroying its function and creating hazards.