Jacking help removing rear axle

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
ChrisB
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:38 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Brancaccio
Location: Calgary AB
MTFCA Number: 26714
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 23136
Board Member Since: 2005
Contact:

Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by ChrisB » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:47 pm

I'm removing the rear axle assembly to do some repairs on my Coupelet.

Does this look OK for balance?

The jack stands are just behind the door and just behind the gas tank.

They have to be outboard of the radius rods, this is as far back as I can get.
Attachments
20191214_153704.jpg
20191214_153625.jpg
Chris Brancaccio
MTFCA Webmaster
MTFCA Forum Admin

User avatar

Walter Higgins
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Walter
Last Name: Higgins
Location: Realville, PA
MTFCA Number: 396
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 153

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:57 pm

You can get them further back by first removing the radius rods and then proceeding. Apart from that, you really ought to use a stand with a larger footprint.

User avatar

CudaMan
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Strange
Location: Hillsboro, MO
MTFCA Number: 30944
MTFCI Number: 23667

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by CudaMan » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Looks a little teeter-tottery, but probably OK. it will get better once the rear axle is out.

When I removed the rear axle in Betsy to install her Ruckstell, I made a cross bar that spanned the rear frame rails and supported the car with it. If you decide to make a cross bar, make it beefier than mine, mine worked OK but was a bit saggy. :)
Attachments
IMG_4211.JPG
IMG_4210.JPG
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 pm

I remove my rear axle assemblies complete and place the jack stands right up tight to the radius rods BUT I do use the stands for my F-250 !

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:08 pm

As long as the cat doesn’t jump on the back, you should be ok :shock:

I have mine about like Mark shows, borrowed the bar from a friend. Had the custom stands and elevation devices. :lol:
Attachments
E3448BED-7605-4830-B20C-27825C671A96.jpeg


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2227
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:26 pm

Jack stands too small
Not located far enough back, they can go back further, and should.

And now I see it's on a 2x8 spanning lift rails and on a lift!

Not a chance in hell that would be allowed on my property. Rethink this.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

Topic author
ChrisB
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:38 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Brancaccio
Location: Calgary AB
MTFCA Number: 26714
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 23136
Board Member Since: 2005
Contact:

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by ChrisB » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:45 pm

Thanks guys. I will look at removing the radius rods & move the stands back.
Chris Brancaccio
MTFCA Webmaster
MTFCA Forum Admin


otrcman
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:25 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Fischer
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by otrcman » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:02 pm

When I removed my rear end, I put the stands exactly where your's are. Didn't like it, no sir, not one bit. Long story short, I put a couple of safety stands at the junctions of the running boards, right where they meet the rear fenders. That's not a very strong point, but I rationalized that I was just trying to prevent tipping, while the main supports were beneath the frame proper.

As far as removing the radius rods before removing the axle/driveshaft, you might be able do that but you still need to have the radius rods fitted up to the axle and adjusted when you reinstall the whole assembly. Two reasons: (1) The driveshaft needs to be squared up perpendicular to the rear axle on assembly, and (2) On some cars the radius rods can't be installed once the axle is bolted up to the driveshaft.
Attachments
Rear end assembly 1.jpg
Rear end final instl 1a.jpg

User avatar

Walter Higgins
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Walter
Last Name: Higgins
Location: Realville, PA
MTFCA Number: 396
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 153

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:13 pm

I use a pair of these:

https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/10-T ... s-Set-of-2

The tonnage is excessive but the dimensioning is ideal. They're also perfect if wanting to place outboard with a 6 x 6 across the back as others have mentioned. The price is very reasonable when weighed against the going rate for an ambulance ride.

User avatar

Oldav8tor
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Oldav8tor » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:16 pm

Get some beefier stands and use a cross bar - worked for me. I rigged up a double support for my jack - lifted the rear end - backed up the jack with Jackstands while I removed the wheels - then used the jack to lift it high enough to get the rear end off and supported it with a piece of square steel tubing across the frame with hefty jackstands on either end. I was able to slide the steel tube between the frame and the radius rods so the rear end came off pretty easy. It ended up sitting that way for 6 months without issue.
First step - lift the rear end and remove the wheels.
First step - lift the rear end and remove the wheels.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


Scott C.
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Scott C. » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:36 pm

I just did the rear end in my 26 roadster. I placed the jack stands as far back as I could to clear the radius arms. It worked fine.
IMG_0501.jpg
IMG_0502.jpg

User avatar

dlmyers
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:00 pm
First Name: Dale
Last Name: Myers
Location: Greenville
MTFCA Number: 24465
MTFCI Number: 19884
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by dlmyers » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:37 pm

tudor 11.jpg
If you jack up the rear end and remove the wheels you can put a piece of heavy wall steel rectangular tubing under the frame and over the wishbones and support it on good jack stands.
The old forums are a gold mine of information.


Allan
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Allan » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:16 pm

The key is to use a cross piece of hardwood which just fits up to the frame without hitting the splash panels. I use a 3 x 2" Jarrah beam. This allows you to move the stands much further back and wider apart, altogether a much safer situation. Then there is no need to remove the radius rods.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Scottio
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:02 pm
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Lay
Location: California

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Scottio » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:22 pm

Chris that looks very close to the spot I used for my 26 Roadster. Maybe the lighter body makes a difference but mine was very stable.


otrcman
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:25 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Fischer
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by otrcman » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:24 pm

"If you jack up the rear end and remove the wheels you can put a piece of heavy wall steel rectangular tubing under the frame and over the wishbones and support it on good jack stands."

I agree with you, Dale. And with all the others who advocate supporting the car with a beam at the aft end of the frame. I even had a beam that I could have used. But when I crawled under the car I discovered that the body hung below the frame a bit. So I would have been supporting the car on the edge of the body rather than on the frame. I considered putting some spacers on the frame to gain some clearance, but there were geometry problems that would have made for a somewhat precarious rig. In the end I decided that supporting directly on the frame was safer even if the supports had to be further forward.

Oh, did I mention that I put a 50 lb. shot bag on top of the radiator for good measure ?

Ever the coward,

Dick

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:43 am

If you want to support the frame with a bar across the frame like Dale, Dave and Mark. Check this iron out at your local Home Improvement Store. Less than $25. Strut bar is 1-5/8 in. x 10 ft 12-gauge material.
Attachments
strut bar.jpg
strut bar.jpg (15.83 KiB) Viewed 1713 times


Dan Hatch
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:03 am

Here is a way to do it.
BAC6372F-B991-4AC8-B07C-36D46E6C6BE6.jpeg
And there are these too
C8EF0495-EA26-4CD3-96D6-5CD5227F582D.jpeg
Here a way to lift the front
41FB2517-76F5-4329-8901-F069FA6401FC.jpeg
41FB2517-76F5-4329-8901-F069FA6401FC.jpeg (71.08 KiB) Viewed 1659 times

User avatar

ABoer
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by ABoer » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:33 am

Chris B. ,
I use this to help me to remove the rear axle .
IMGP1086.JPG
IMGP1125.JPG


Sarikatime
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:47 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Seress
Location: Prescott, Arizona
MTFCA Number: 27707

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Sarikatime » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:01 am

I used a 4x4 wood post 8 feet long from home dump, worked great. Why is it that when you do major work like this it looks like a bomb exploded around the T? There are tools and jack stands and parts everywhere while your working. I am usually too tired to clean up before the job is finished and it looks horrible when I come back the next day to finish. Some of you guys on the pictures look like you could eat off the floor, while working, and all tools and parts are in the neatest order than I can ever get. I used to be amazed at a mechanic friend of mine in the sixties, he looked like he wore his Sunday best while working on the dirtiest jobs and never had a speck of dirt or grease on him on the end of the day. I was always with best of luck, lol, if there was a painter across the street painting, I would have that paint on me by the end of the day, without ever going across the street. Go figure. We all have unique talents. Love the hobby. Frank

User avatar

perry kete
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:46 am
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Seth
Location: Jefferson Ohio

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by perry kete » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:32 am

Well I guess it's time to share my secret of how I lift my cars when working on them. I have a phone booth in the back corner of my shop and when I need to lift a car I run over to the booth and …

supermanth.jpg
supermanth.jpg (48.9 KiB) Viewed 1606 times

Sometimes my daughter comes out to help …

supergirl_4_by_jeffach-d697u8o-thumb.jpg
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by DanTreace » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:48 am

You don’t have to remove the rear radius rods, good balance is made on the frame as far forward as allowed.

Mine is done without a lift, but using safe high lift jack stands on the frame , these were US military surplus. Plus notice the yellow China stands there for added security anyway, they touch the running board brackets for peace of mind.

If you doubt you have adequate support, don’t proceed.


7C146CC5-59B4-44E3-85F6-0F86075B4DEE.jpeg
A7243081-42CC-47BE-9DF4-72C401B34EBA.jpeg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


MWalker
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:49 am
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Walker
Location: NW Arkansas
MTFCA Number: 314
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by MWalker » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:22 am

Well, everyone seems to have an opinion on this, so here's mine. With the engine in the car, there is no need to remove the radius rods and move the stands farther back. The only time this wouldn't work is when the engine was out of the car. I'll join in the chorus that advocates for better jack stands though. Goodyear Racing makes some nice ones which have a substantial base and also are tall enough that you don't need any additional blocks to lift them up higher. Mine are rated for 6 tons, which is obviously more than you need for a Model T, but they have a wide base and they extend to 24" height, which is perfect.


Original Smith
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Original Smith » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:47 am

Dan, it looks like you have a Canadian Ruckstell.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by DanTreace » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:32 am

Larry

Good eye noting the oval tag.

Yep, running an imported axle on my Model T......egads :o


IMG_1191 (570x428).jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

ewdysar
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Dysart
Location: SoCal

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by ewdysar » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:42 am

Dan Hatch wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:03 am
Here is a way to do it.
BAC6372F-B991-4AC8-B07C-36D46E6C6BE6.jpeg
And there are these too
C8EF0495-EA26-4CD3-96D6-5CD5227F582D.jpeg
Here a way to lift the front
41FB2517-76F5-4329-8901-F069FA6401FC.jpeg
Hey Dan,

Got any pics of the lifting bars in use? I’m interested in where they go and what they rest on/against. And are they fastened to the car or just hooked into place and held by gravity and leverage?

Keep crankin’
Eric

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 2104
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:50 am

I use the method first posted above by Mark. A six foot piece of 2" x 2" square tubing right in front of the rear spring works perfectly. I agree you want better stands. I use home made ones that are 27" tall, which gives me plenty of room.

You didn't ask this, but I'll mention that you don't need a spring spreader. Just loosen the rear perch nuts enough to relax the shackles. You don't even have to remove the perches.

Here's a video of the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mZzAt9Q_4k
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Dan Hatch
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:39 pm

Here are some pictures. One is out of the service manual.
3F937281-AED9-47B2-9138-799C613A14A3.jpeg
It works with a whole car.
Here is a picture one being used in the day.
D336631D-5209-413B-8056-8C3FB49082F5.jpeg
Here is the whole picture.
DBFF1C17-4E53-471F-BDB2-1CA4EA429A05.jpeg
Hope that helps. Dan

User avatar

ewdysar
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Dysart
Location: SoCal

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by ewdysar » Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:05 pm

Thanks for the pics Dan.

Would it be safe to put the ends of the straight bars on stands or are these lifting bars strictly an overhead hoist thing? Yes, I understand that ground support would get in the way of pulling the removed bits out from under the car, but I think that could be managed...

Eric


Rich Bingham
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Rich Bingham » Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:22 pm

Personally, I prefer the overhead approach to rear axle removal. I built an overhead beam out of doubled 2x6s for my vintage chain fall. It could also serve for pulling the engine. Timber is handy and easy to make into needed garage items. The axle support on the floor jack is a 4x4 with appropriate additions.
Attachments
DC536402-166F-4F96-8880-A5937F93FA6A.jpeg
DC536402-166F-4F96-8880-A5937F93FA6A.jpeg (34.33 KiB) Viewed 1458 times
"Get a horse !"


Dan Hatch
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:07 pm

Only used them by lifting, that way rear end rolls out easy. Dan


rgould1910
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:53 pm

Agree with Mike Walker that unless the engine is out of the car, there is no need to remove the radius rods. I use egg crates with a plywood topper to support jack stands. Done it literally a couple dozen times. Never an issue.


Scott C.
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: Jacking help removing rear axle

Post by Scott C. » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:18 pm

I just pulled the rear end out of my 26 coupe. Just like the roadster, I placed the stands as far back as I could to clear the radius rods. It is very stable.
IMG_0562.jpg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic