Your thoughts please.

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bud delong
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Your thoughts please.

Post by bud delong » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:31 pm

Our T was only out 3 times last year because i can"t crank it easily anymore. I looked at it tonight when i brought in corn and i wonder [out loud] if adding 3 or 4 inches to the crank would help the old person who lives here?? :oops: Bud.

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:47 pm

Bud the only thing about extending that crank if it bites you, it is going to do more damage to you. You might want to give her a good service (Clean or new plugs gap set, check valve clearances, timing rod adjustment, clean the carburetor main jet, coils set, etc.) or have a younger person with proper supervision assist you in starting.

Hope this Helps,

Hank


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Scottio » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:11 pm

Just a thought. I’ve seen a YouTube video of a guy who kick starts his T like a motorcycle. I haven’t tried it myself. I’m not sure how safe that technique is but it may be an option.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Cigarboxrob » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:19 pm

....Bud, as I deal with my: “Nightmare T,” (That’s another story.) my company has a plywood-bodied custom pickup that we were able to start easier by changing the oil to 0-20w in colder temperatures-To quote Archimedes: “Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world.” To quote a man who had the kick-start on his Honda Goldwing backfire and break his shinbone: “OWWWWW!!!!!! HELLLLLLPPPP!!!!”

20-years since that kick-start backfired and broke my leg, it *still* hurts. One of my mechanics also suggested to keep a kerosene heater near the radiator-Regardless, have you tried running lower-weight oil in the cold? Some of us don’t have the luxury of a heated garage!


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Dallas Landers » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:32 pm

Wish you were closer Bud.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Les Schubert » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:02 pm

I have done some preliminary work on a electric starter conversion that would drive in place of the front pulley. It is designed around a Subaru starter (because it turns reverse from most and is a powerful double reduction type). I haven’t finished it yet (got distracted on other stuff) but as I personally get older it probably should move to the top of the list!!
It uses a high HP cog belt drive

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:45 pm

I’ve seen a YouTube video of a guy who kick starts his T like a motorcycle

The theory is that a broken leg is better than a broken arm. :D
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Dallas Landers » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:53 pm

Bud, you need a belt pulley on the rear wheel! :D

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by RajoRacer » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:16 pm

Bud - do you have an aversion to changing a few parts to install an electric start ? Our '14 Touring was purchased from the family who I did just that for, as the owner was in his early 80's & had Parkinson's to boot ! I removed the engine, disassembled it and replaced the flywheel with the later starter type, installed a battery box - (he had already converted to electric lights), hid some wiring and he was able to start the T. I seldom use it as it starts good on magneto but I have used it !


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bud delong
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by bud delong » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:32 pm

Yes i do not want to go starter unless i could adapt a early such as a Dayton. The cold is not the problem as the car seems to bind while cranking even in warm weather. I was just thinking a little extra on the crank would be hard to spot and might help??? Bud.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Dennis Prince » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:16 am

I kick start 1 of my Ts on a regular basis, like hand propping it you need to make sure that it is retarded and I only kick start the car that sits low enough to get my leg high enough to push down easily. It is great fun to tell a bunch of guys with motorcycle that a real man kick starts his ride and kick start the T.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by 2nighthawks » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:46 am

Bud - Just sort of "thinking out loud" here, but how about something like this:

If by chance your "T" has been converted to 12 volts, or, if not, if you might consider converting to 12 volts, as I have often wondered if a $49.95 Harbor Freight 12 volt electric impact wrench (produces 230 ft/lb of torque) would crank a T engine? (I've used a HF 12 volt electric impact wrench to remove some pretty tight motorhome lug nuts.) Perhaps, cut off the engine end segment of a "T" hand crank and weld (or have welded) a standard sized Model A lug nut to the outboard end of it. Might look a bit "strange", but all you'd see is a little "nubbin" of a shaft with a lug nut welded to it sticking out a bit below the radiator. Then use a 12 volt impact wrench and lug nut-sized impact socket to crank the engine. That way, you could use either the 12 volt electric impact wrench, or, you could also use a regular Model A hand crank (which is also a lug wrench) manually, which would give you a bit more mechanical advantage for hand-cranking, due to the slightly longer "leverage-length" of the Model A hand crank. Just a thought FWIW,.....harold


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by 2nighthawks » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:51 am

.....actually, the Model A hand crank might be pretty awkward to use "two-handed" unless some way was devised to support the crank for one-handed cranking,......???


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by 2nighthawks » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:08 am

Oops! ....My mistake! .....Sorry to get so "long-winded" here, but it's late and I guess I'm not thinking too clearly. In thinking more about it, I guess the HF electric impact wrench that I have used so successfully on motorhome lug nuts is actually 110 volts. Now that I think about it, I use it by starting the motorhome Onan 110 volt generator and plugging the 110 volt HF impact wrench into the 110 volt outlet on the side of the motorhome. However, I do see on the internet that THERE ARE 12 volt electric impact wrenches available nowadays that produce well over 200 ft/lbs of torque so maybe not such a "hair-brained" thought anyway! (???) Again, FWIW,....harold

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Jeff Perkins » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am

Sadly life moves on. Making adjustments to compensate can be difficult. The seniors I know (including myself) who can make adjustments seem to do better. Those who don’t struggle more. I would definitely install an electric starter and continue to enjoy living and driving my (your) special Model T.
1913 Model T Runabout, 1930 Model A Tudor, 1991 Mazda Miata


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by tdump » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:47 am

My dad forgot to retard the timeing on his 58 Duoglide,it reminded him when he went off and over yonder and had to get up off the ground.!
If the engine binds in warm weather,may be a issue with high gear adjustment or something.might should get a second pair of eyes on it.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by MichaelPawelek » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:54 am

Bud, Until you figure out a starter and so you can at least drive a tiny bit in your area have someone trusted slowly pull start the T with a large strap with you in the drivers seat. Key on, choke pulled and in neutral, then in high gear once the tow vehicle gets forward movement. I’ve done it dozens of time with old iron stuck back in the barn with my younger brother’s help and my huge riding lawn mower as a tow unit. Naturally, if you are not comfortable doing this.....then don’t! Once the T starts you have to have your wits about you so you don’t rear ended the tow unit. :)


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Jim Eubanks » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:05 am

Bud, how does it crank with the plugs out? With one back wheel up? There must be some reason for the "bind" that makes it hard to crank. When a healthy engine is on compression, its the very last of the crank turn that does the trick.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by tdump » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:37 am

Steve brings up a good point,a broken leg may to some degree be better than a broken arm.You can still eat with a broken leg.If someone brings it to you! :lol:
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:45 am

Maybe using the foot for a couple priming turns. Save the arm and shoulder for the 1/4 pull to fire up.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 am

It would be a lot of work to replace the hogs head and flywheel with a starter setup, but maybe you could get a friend or couple friends in the club to help you. Then you could have an electric starter. You can keep the old hogs head and convert back to crank only if you ever want to do so, or sell the old hogs head with the car to someone else who wants to make it original some time in the future. With an electric starter, you can still crank the engine when you are able. They usually start easily with the crank after the engine is warmed up. So if you want to show someone else how to crank start, you can warm up the engine first.
In order to convert to crank only, it is only necessary to change the hogs head, because it will fit on a flywheel with ring gear.
Norm


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by cranejon » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:51 am

Bud
How about a portable impact wrench? They come with either an 18 volt lithium battery or a a fuel cell. Seems like it would be an easy conversion to add a Model A drive nut and start the car using the portable impact wrench. Also would maintain the originality of the car.

I sold my SEARS because I am too old to crank it. Now all my cars have starters. 24T, three A's, and a street rod.

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Oldav8tor » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:56 am

I don't know if I would agree with "The theory is that a broken leg is better than a broken arm" - When I had my 1917 engine rebuilt I added a starter and have no regrets....At age 70, I don't think it's going to get any easier to crank a T as I get older. I also think that mine is a bit harder to crank since I added a high-compression Z head.
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by bud delong » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:58 am

Thanks to everyone and i will try simple things first as i know it should even start on the switch if things are right.I have jacked up the right rear and i still get a bind? Once started it runs very well and i will ask the one who must be obayed to print this for saving.To my friend East of Emma,i do wish we were closer! :D Bud.

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:51 am

I believe Les has the ticket for an "add-on" belt drive modern starter - installs without having to replace the T hogshead, etc. - I remember talking with Les a number of years ago regarding the same for a customer who wasn't able to hand start his '09 ! Could be a profitable endeavor Les !


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Peter, Memphis TN » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:35 pm

Bud, I've always enjoyed interfacing with you on the Forum. I'd hate to see you sidelined by this problem!

I have always posted, almost to the point of preaching, that when a Model T is to be cranked, it should always be done with the foot, never the hand.

Here's my thinking:

First, the leg is much stronger than the arm. And, when hand-cranking, you are of necessity hunched over in an awkward position and haven't nearly as much strength as you have in your leg. And a lot of that strength comes from your lower back, and we who have lots of birthdays behind us don't usually have lower-back strength to spare.

Second, if the engine backfires during cranking, it can easily pull the crank out of your hand and swing around and break your arm. It's harder for it to lift your entire body weight, then swing around and damage your leg. And as said in an earlier post, I'd rather have a leg injured than an arm!

Third, if the engine is cantankerous and doesn't want to start on the first pull, you can 'stomp' a crank many more times than you can pull on a crank, before you get too pooped to pop.

Fourth, when you lean over to grab the crank, you lose your line of sight over the hood. If you stand upright, you can hold on to the radiator neck for balance, and you can easily look over and check to see that the spark lever is UP.

Fifth, if you have to choke the engine before really trying to start it, you can still check the ignition is OFF, then go ahead and pull the choke rod and hand-crank a couple of pulls, and then turn on the ignition and do your real cranking from a standing position. The pulls when choking don't have to be particularly swift, so you don't have to use up your energy doing them.

Here endeth the sermon.

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by HornsRus » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:16 pm

les! could you send pics of the subaru starter.maybe i could rig one up on my indian motorcycle.thanks charley


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by hpetrino » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:41 pm

I know this won't really help, but I am reminded of an old Ford F-250 I had about 45 years ago. It had a 4 speed granny behind a 390. The starter worked about 30% of the time, so I'd always park it on a hill. I'd just jump in, turn the key on, pit it in 2nd or 3rd gear, hold the clutch in, and release the brake. Once I had enough speed I'd let the clutch out and poof! Off I'd go.

Seriously Bud, I agree with the other posters who advise installing a starter. We do need to make adjustments as the years pass. It's an important part of the notion "Keep Moving!".

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by CudaMan » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:06 pm

Here's a link to a video of one of those "kick starter" folks. I noticed he was careful to kick so that his leg swung forward out of the plane of rotation of the crank. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXytPeHlefg
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:17 pm

I would stay away from the 0W-20 suggestion, of course you can put a ring gear in whilst you’re replacing the crank from the thin oil... ;)


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by baltrusch » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:11 pm

I made a front mount starter for a friend and it works very well. I used an ATV starter clutch on the crankshaft and a chain to the starter - the chain is idle when the engine runs. I replaced the bendix with a sprocket and used a permanent magnet Nissan starter which turns backward with positive ground. However, this setup requires a car with a wide snout on the front of the pan but it might be interesting to experiment with a narrow pan. I also made starters for a 1911 Buick and a 1918 White and used Subaru starters and bendixes and came from behind. On these, the large starter gears were mounted behind the even larger flywheels requiring the starter to run opposite to normal as Subarus do.


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bud delong
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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by bud delong » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 pm

I watched the video of the kick start but i think i'm built too close to the ground and i"m also as nimble as a stone. :oops: Bud.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Paul-Geil » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Bud,
Check your transmission bands, if the brake is a little to tight, you will feel a bind when staring.
Paul


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by jiminbartow » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:25 am

How about jacking up the rear with an easy to lower floor jack and start it by spinning the rear wheel? This is the method they used to use in the day with hard starting Model T’s. Especially on cold mornings. Good luck. Jim Patrick


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by d stroud » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:50 am

bud delong wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 pm
I watched the video of the kick start but i think i'm built too close to the ground and i"m also as nimble as a stone. :oops: Bud.
Yep Bud, I know what you mean!!! Arthritis has been kicking my butt for years, but the spurs in my back are the worst. :( I'm so thankful for "Self Comencer" on the '25 Beater Coupe!!! :D :D If I was in your shoes and I could get it done, I would go with a starter conversion in a heartbeat. JMHO. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by bobt » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:06 am

While reading this thread, I've noticed that a couple of people mentioned try using a impact wrench to turn the engine over. I don't think a impact wrench would work as it would just hammer away and not spin the engine over. A'm I wrong in thinking this? bobt


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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by Rich Bingham » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:51 am

Granted, it may be easier to encounter a unicorn, but what about one if those “crank from the seat” mechanical gizmos that were offered back in the day ? Would that help you at all ? Next question, do they work as well as “as advertised” ? I’d like to think a concerted effort by forum members would turn one up if you decided to go that route. In any case, your motor should turn over freely, that needs to be solved whatever you decide on.
"Get a horse !"

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Re: Your thoughts please.

Post by ewdysar » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:47 am

bobt wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:06 am
While reading this thread, I've noticed that a couple of people mentioned try using a impact wrench to turn the engine over. I don't think a impact wrench would work as it would just hammer away and not spin the engine over. Am I wrong in thinking this? bobt
That’s what I was thinking too. I rotate the hand crank on my T about 60 degrees to start her up. An impact wrench doesn’t seem right for the job.

Keep crankin’
Eric

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