Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

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TonyB
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Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu May 09, 2019 10:44 pm

Yes it’s back on.
I’ve spent the last few months fixing my own T which broke a crankshaft late in 2018, a customers car with a bust magneto, several starters and generator and three tours. Oh such a busy life....
Well this week I looked over the 1909 Touring which I purchased as a restoration project in 2017 to see where I had left off. The body is painted almost to my satisfaction but still needing some more detailed effort. One outstanding item was fitting the doors. Well they are now installed, thanks to an enthusiast who donated a couple of door strikers at the Bakersfield Swap Meet. My biggest surprise was how much the thickness of paint on the wood door and hinges made fitting difficult. In the end I had to scrape off most of the paint to get good fit.
F4F540CA-D869-492E-91A8-2DC332C06D9D.jpeg
Right rear door closed
1CAF5B43-8D13-4B88-9A25-437A09396D09.jpeg
Right rear door open
BE36E8C9-9848-423D-84E3-5AA1F19EEB5C.jpeg
Left rear door closed
6C80E5A5-E583-40F7-A26B-76B63053C346.jpeg
Left rear door open
The doors both latch when closed but need an extra minty degree turn to lock the latch. I polished the handles and gave the latches a little oil, so that phase in DONE.

The color is a very dark green, which to my eyes looks close to the correct Brewster green enamel and is hand painted as were the original bodies in 1909. To add some life to the paint I have been wondering if I should add a clear coat on top of the enamel. Opinions are most welcome.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Steve Hughes » Thu May 09, 2019 10:53 pm

Hi Tony. The 1909 project is looking good. As for the paint. My opinion is that Ford didn't put a clear coat on it in 1909, so I don't think you should put one on today. I know it will look great either way you go.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Fri May 10, 2019 3:49 am

Are you sure about that no clear coat on Fords in 1909? I'm not. Most carriage painting in the latter half of the 1800s well up to 1910 involved several coats of base, colors, and a clear coat for durability and shine. Most automobiles used clear coats through the brass era. I am fairly sure many of the pre-Ts used clear coats, but do not definitively know when Ford cut that cost. Paints up until that time tended to be fairly flat, and required clear coats for a luxurious finish.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri May 10, 2019 8:37 am

Wayne is correct. Finish methods on automobiles followed established practices for painting carriages and wagons right up to the advent of nitrocellulose lacquer in the early 20s.

Manufacturers of "coachwork" often supplied bodies painted and trimmed. Does anyone know if Ford received them finished or "in the white" ?
"Get a horse !"

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Hap_Tucker » Sat May 11, 2019 9:22 am

Rich,

Summary -- all the normal production 1909-1912 bodies would have been delivered to Ford USA painted and upholstered.

Ref: See the link in the on-line encyclopedia at http://mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint4 That takes you to "PAINTS" section and may or may not take you to the article. If you don't see the article “ALL MODEL Ts WERE BLACK” By Trent Boggess (Thank you Trent for years and years of support to our hobby!) then please scroll down and find the title.

About 1/3 through the article Trent writes:

Painting Model T bodies was one of the most complex and time-consuming processes in the Ford factory. From a chronological standpoint, it was also one of the last painting operations to be undertaken by the Ford Motor Company. The Cost Book for December 1913 contains the interesting note “We are using only about 5% of Touring Car Bodies purchased in the white which we trim and paint ourselves. We are trimming and painting none of the Torpedo Car Bodies.” This indicates that the Ford Motor Company had just begun the painting and upholstering of bodies in its own factory, and that 95% or more of the bodies used on the Model T were still being delivered from the body supplier to the Ford Motor Company completely painted and upholstered. Ford continued to paint and trim only 5% of its touring car bodies through April 1914. Painting and trimming operations were expanded in to 10% of Ford’s total touring car body requirements in May 1914. Production of painted and trimmed bodies continued to rise so that by October 1914, Ford was trimming and painting 40% of its touring car body requirements. The point at which Ford was painting and trimming all of its touring car bodies is not known since the Cost Books no longer state this statistic after October 1914. Painting and trimming of torpedo (roadster) bodies in the Ford factories did not begin until September 1915.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Cut Off


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat May 11, 2019 4:21 pm

Thank you Rich B and Hap T ! And Thanks to Trent B for all his years of research and sharing information.

That car is looking so good. I knew when Tony B bought it he would do a fantastic job of both preservation and presentability. Looking GOOD Tony B !

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Wed May 29, 2019 12:14 pm

I had a complaint that I’ve not been posting about the 09 for a few weeks. I have been painting the half round beads that run around the body. Funny but the body is not vertical but the beads are horizontal, so laying the tape on the corners is difficult due to the compound curves with flat tape.
I think the doors are done and ready for a coat of clear varnish. I went down the sailing stores in Point Loma and bought the same varnish that I used on our boat years ago. It has lasted very well and well worth the money over the cheaper box store brands.

I have been using the kick panel under the drivers seat as my test area. The varnish there has been very successful.
0F154E8D-6AF1-4253-8835-ED14BC062E43.jpeg
862BAD93-A472-4B9C-B7AD-0E75EEF5058A.jpeg
I have had a little bleeding of paint under the tape, I suppose s#*t must happen. I’ll get a smaller brush and fix a couple of spots by hand when I feel real steady. One problem is the time to keep the tape on the body. They recommend no longer than three days. It’s tough to get enough coverage in that time as slow as I worth these days.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Walter Higgins » Wed May 29, 2019 2:38 pm

You're using the wrong tape. Go to a body supply and get what they call "fine line tape". Comes in various widths. It's easier to manipulate into contours, but most importantly it is clean and smooth on the tacky side so that the new topcoat won't bleed underneath. Common masking tape isn't designed to hold a sharp edge.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu May 30, 2019 12:18 am

Live and learn😊😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by rgould1910 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:29 am

I see that the brand Frog Tape is advertised as designed to prevent paint bleed through underneath the tape. I've seen available it at one of the big box stores.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu May 30, 2019 11:13 am

It’s my understanding that Frog brand tape is for water based paints. The tape is designed to react with the water in the paint and provide a close seal at the edge, thus giving a very clean line. Of course I’m using enamel based paint so it will not be as effective.
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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Bob McDaniel » Fri May 31, 2019 1:09 am

Automotive masking tape is expensive but works and will come off after you paint without problems. Only thing is it might pull off any loose paint so a trick we used was to "kill" the tape a little on your leg to remove some of the glue. Stick it to your pants leg and remove it one time before you put it on your paint. It will come off a even month later easy so you can work at your own pace. It has been a while since I bought any but it was about $4.00 per roll last time and worth it. I buy the cheep stuff for less important places like holding paper to paper on a window and save the good stuff for anything that touches the car. 3M makes the stuff I use and it comes in different sizes and holds up very well to paint and solvents.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:57 pm

This weekend should mark a significant step in the 1909 rebuild in that I expect the the body and chassis to be reunited. The wood in the body and the paint 98% done to my satisfaction. I’m sure when it gets into the sunlight, I’ll see blemishes which I may fix. The chassis has been ready for close to a year though I can always find something not quite complete. Case in point was the radiator mounting. The studs were not long enough to add the little clips for the wind shield support. So yet another afternoon was spent removing the radiator and making slightly longer studs. All it takes is time....

So here are a few final (I hope) pictures of the body and chassis before the final merge.
AE631975-AD85-47D1-B1FD-99BCAF7DBAEA.jpeg
Left side of 1909 body
3F270DA9-E7FD-4501-8BA5-02262140E4E7.jpeg
Front of 1909 chassis
8BBD822A-7156-4220-B798-807084CA8719.jpeg
Rear of 1909 chassis
9AA74A5C-D8BB-46B5-8F34-FB4728D24A40.jpeg
Right side of 1909 body
As soon as get the splash aprons from the painter, hopefully early next week, I’ll use Lee’s sky hook to merge them together😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:40 pm

The wheels on the above pictures are not the correct wheels. The final wheels have 5 1/2” hubs but still need painting. I’m thinking of painting the metal to match the body and just varnish on the wood feloes and spokes.
619543FB-BD52-4155-BEAE-F2FFEA86DEC8.jpeg
Unpainted 1909 wheels
Tony Bowker
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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Dollisdad » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:45 pm

My choice- paint the rims and hubs black. And the fellows and the spokes green. OR all green. You did so much work with the rest of the car to keep it looking correct, I think with natural finish wood you’ll find it takes on the circus look. Just my 2 cents. I like the car.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:11 pm

I agree with Tom R here. The car is becoming so well done and correct looking, that it would be a shame to have the wheels painted incorrectly. I cannot argue that wheels look badly when finished in a "natural", however, I almost always prefer the proper "painted" look. I suspect part of that for me is the thousands of original era photos I have looked at closely and I just naturally expect painted wood wheels.
Your car, and a beautiful one either way! So, my opinion for whatever it is worth (which is probably what you paid for it!).

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Bob McDaniel » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:01 pm

I love the look of wood and think painting over it is a bad thing for cabinets and antique chairs but the wood on cars from that era would have been painted to protect it and natural wood while it looks good is just wrong. I hated to paint the original white oak cab on my 25 Indiana but it had paint from the factory and to this day I am so glad I painted it to keep it original. I even painted the doors and hood black just like the factory did thinking I can paint it again if it looks bad but it turned out good. It is your car and not the end of the world if you leave the wood natural but my vote is paint them like Ford did and you wont regret it. That is going to be an awesome car.
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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by rgould1910 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:45 am

Painting wheels is a big job but worth it in the end

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by KWTownsend » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:01 pm

I'd paint them. I wish the wheels on my 1911 were painted and not natural wood.

: ^ )

Keith

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:31 pm

I have decided to paint the wheels the body color. Later they will be pin striped, hopefully by a local artisan.
The sheet metal is now back from the shop and today was a trial fit. Those with eagle eyes will notice the bolts have not yet been painted, be patient😊😊
BD32D28F-A0E6-4056-BA8A-665F35DC5E77.jpeg
Trial fender fit, front view
11E93ADD-4EC9-42E0-9F35-8629F8E254D2.jpeg
Trial fender fit, side view
The windscreen is also in place but one of the supports is badly damaged, so currently it is only supported on the passenger side. When I return from Yellowstone and England I will break out the lathe and maybe some silver soldering. A local restorer has offered to show me his soldering technique.
11E93ADD-4EC9-42E0-9F35-8629F8E254D2.jpeg
Trial fender fit, side view
So that’s the current status, I doubt much will change from now until the middle of September.

I don’t know why one picture is duplicated, only three show in preview😊. The mysteries of computers... no doubt Chris or Adam will have the answer. At least I can usually place pictures where “I” want them 😊😊
Attachments
368C0B66-D949-4FD0-90FE-C50BDE17ABDE.jpeg
Trial fit of windscreen
Tony Bowker
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1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Dropacent » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:55 pm

Tony. I’m enjoying your progress. I have an orphan windshield support arm here, if you send me a couple shots maybe we will luck out. Tmorsher@icloud.com


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:24 pm

It's looking good Tony. I hope to see you driving it some day.
Norm

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:04 am

I rather doubt it will be on a rough desert track like we saw on the Borrego Springs tour.
C6EBA139-FB12-47FC-AA29-11D97037F5BF.jpeg
Borrego Springs tour
Maybe from an enclosed trailer in a parking lot to a veteran car show.
Tony Bowker
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1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:32 am

That thing is coming out gorgeous! I hope I get to see it up close some day!

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:37 pm

In spite of my travels and tours, I’m still getting bits done. This last week was on the windscreen mount, one of which was broken and been welded solid in the incorrect position. With the encouragement of Art Wilson I spent a couple of days on the lathe and mill with bits of brass and now it works.
A8194964-30B6-4BA4-8D0B-82F9072A26F7.jpeg
New windscreen Mount
It’s not quite the same shape as the original, which was rounder rather than bull nosed, but I think this will be stronger and less liable to fail.
My daughter Carolyn has been getting in on the act and made a set of lamp bags. They came out great with ties so they will stay on and be fairly effective at reducing air flow.
9B20254E-FA5D-4681-B755-B859B6F623F8.jpeg
Lamp covers
I have the original top back on, it’s shrunk a little so it requires stretching to make it more level at the front
5F5E5829-53E6-49C0-B79C-284FC5E2CE45.jpeg
Top on the 1909
Finally before I leave on yet another trip I have the parking brake installed and the floorboards in.
8D73C975-44E7-48A4-B81C-CBF7F904A838.jpeg
Interior of 1909
When I get back I will remove the top and have a go at re-installing the original upholstery. Wish me luck.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:56 pm

Odd that one of the pictures was rotated. Even stranger is if you touch it, you get the full size picture AND ITS IN THE CORRECT ORIENRATION. 😺😺
Tony Bowker
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1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Model_T_Family » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:27 am

She looks amazing Tony, and to imagine all that pretty paint and shiny brass from you Haha. GOOD WORK my friend.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:55 am

Welcome to the modern world of gamers! They LIVE to brag they can do something that you cannot, like the whole world exists only in their little virtual reality bubble.

Enjoy the trip! The '09 is looking great.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by RustyFords » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:53 am

I haven't commented on this thread, but have been following it.

Thanks for posting the updates....they're fun to follow.
1924 Touring

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Duey_C » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:33 pm

Beautiful Tony!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by modelt46 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:45 am

I notice there is a patent/number plate on the firewall. The 1909s and 1910s and most 1911s had that patent/serial late of the body and it was not the plate on your firewall. Is that a dealer plate and does your body have the correct plate on the vertical wood peice under the front seat? Also brewstrer green is associated with the 1910 Ts. The 1910 model stated with about number 8000 on about August 1, 1909.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by modelt46 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:50 am

I notice there is a patent/number plate on the firewall. The 1909s and 1910s and most 1911s had that patent/serial late of the body and it was not the plate on your firewall. Is that a dealer plate and does your body have the correct plate on the vertical wood peice under the front seat? Also brewstrer green is associated with the 1910 Ts. The 1910 model stated with about number 8000 on about August 1, 1909. :)

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by John Warren » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:34 pm

The car definitely has the WOW factor, Thanks Tony for sharing your great car.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:47 pm

Darrel, the plate on the firewall was on the vehicle when I bought it. The writing is embossed but doesn’t show well in a photo. I may try to do a rubbing at some point and make a photo at that time. Only then can I decide if I want to remove it from the firewall.
I didn’t put a Patent Plate on after I did the painting as at the time I wasn’t sure about the style. I rather like the one shaped as a thick T but since then I believe it should be rectangular with the last patent date of February 18, 1908 and located on the kick panel under the drivers seat. These are reproduced by Lang’s.
From the Encyclopedia, all the cars built after July 1909 were Brewster Green until sometime in the spring of 1910.
As for the vehicle date, the transmission shaft was dated 09 30 09 and the engine number is 11150 which the Built Sheet, bought from the Ford Archives, dates the final assembly of October 4, 1909. From Bruce’s research it appears to be the second vehicle assembled on that Monday morning.
So I am reasonably comfortable that the vehicle originated in 1909, probably restored at least once in the 1950’s and now going through a restoration in which I’m trying to replicate how it appeared in October 1909.
Wish me luck on the upholstery. 😊😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Luck!
Now go enjoy that "yet another trip". I await more updates.
Love that car.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by modelt46 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:55 pm

According to the data at the
Ford research center this Ford is a 1910 model year made in 1909. It is the model year that counts and not when made. By all accounts, it is a 1910.
Year

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:22 pm

Today my grandson came to the shop and we worked on the seats. I tried to do it alone yesterday and failed as my fingers were hardly strong enough and it took two hands to hold it all in place. I needed my third had for the tacking. My objective was to get them tacked in with as much padding as we could handle. In a couple of instances the old leather would not hold so we were forced to take out some padding. However it looks good and after a few hours with a trimming knife when my arms recover, it will be great.
8FF2A688-D31F-4F92-A43B-FF5F08B05E37.jpeg
Rear seat tacked in place
0FA2AD6E-384D-4A28-AEB3-CB45D01A6CAA.jpeg
Front seat tacked in place
It was interesting as to get access to the back of the rear seat, I had to remove both the top and the back rail. The latter was very annoying as I had painted it and of course removing the nuts has destroyed some of he paint. So be it😊😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by modelt46 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:33 pm

Is is a Baudette or Wilson body? The height of the back of the back seat is one row higher on the Wilson boy, at least my 1910 Baudette body is one row lower than the Wilson body that was used at one time to duplicate an upholstery set.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:21 pm

I believe it is a Baudette body as the number stamped on the body and both doors is B7264
659275D8-8EEC-423E-8EBB-15353A85E1A5.jpeg
Body number under front seat
Tony Bowker
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1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:27 pm

I had another pleasant surprise when I returned from England. My daughter has made bags for all five brass lamps and a radiator cover.
E14174D8-C062-43C5-89AD-F7F5D3EED04B.jpeg
Radiator cover
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:32 pm

Looking nice!


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by erkbrn » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:26 pm

Tony,

If you ever need an extra set of able hands, give me a call! I'm not too far from you and need to learn.

Eric


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:54 am

It's looking very good, Tony. Are you planning to sell it, show it, or tour with it?
Norm


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Alex Dragone » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:48 pm

Who made your new wheels? Stutzman? They look great! I would love to have some done. Please let me know! Thanks!

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:17 am

The new wheels came as part of the kit of parts. The wheels were assembled and spokes provided by Stutzman. However the hubs are quite custom and were made by a friend of the previous owner. Externally they look exactly like the 1909 5.5” hubs. Internally however. the front are suppose to house tapers bearings and the rear fit the tapered axles. On the rear, the original 09 axle was not tapered and held with a pin which in turn was contained by the hub cap. Mine use a tapered axle and nut, but fitting the split pin looks problematic.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by scott rosenthal » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:30 am

Hello Tony:
Please post a photo of the problematic rear hub, glad to try to help out. Pardon if I may be misunderstanding your rear wheel issue....sounds like you're concerned about pinning the tapered axle castle nut....is this correct? I too fabricated early style tapered hubs and had no issues with either mounting or removing the tapered hub wheels. My wheel puller scheme is unique, but cheap and simple. The original early hubs have the portal for inserting a lock pin, that you could pass a cat through. I drilled this pin access hole in mine per design, however, standard properly sized cotter pins can be easily installed, secured, and removed with no pin access holes.
Regards,
Scott

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:10 am

There will be no problem with a wheel puller as the wheel uses the regular hub cap and from the one trial run, the regular puller appeared to work.
Your idea of drilling a large hole to access the split pin is excellent. I assume the pin in the axle shaft is in a fixed relation to the keyway so the hole need only be large enough diameter to cope with the alignment of the hole in the axle and the wear on the taper. Sounds like a fun afternoons project.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Allan » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:22 am

Tony, I love the way you work. Your restoration will result in a much more authentic looking result than many of the over detailed, glitzy looking paint jobs on many cars. Well done.

You mention that the whole was a project car you have taken over to finish. Do you know if the rear fenders are reproductions, and if so, who made them? The duplicate photo you posted shows them to be a close fit at the rear of the running board, which is usual. However, they appear to slant upwards from the running board at quite an angle, rather than stating off almost vertical before curving around the wheel. One of our club members had similar fenders and found that with a load in the back seat, the fenders made contact with the tyre, causing the paintwork on top to blister. It may be just the angle that the photo is taken, I would hate to see your lovely paintwork come to grief.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:16 am

Most Model T's when parked look like the fenders are quite close to the rear tires on the front side, but because of the way the axle is constructed with the driveshaft and radius rods, when you put weight in the back seat, the wheels will move farther back in relation to the fenders. However, I think Allen has a good point and it would be a very good idea to weight down the back while the car is parked and see how close the tires come to the fenders before you drive the car.
Norm


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by scott rosenthal » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Hello Tony:
I had assumed that the axle cotter hole would be located in a standard radial position relative to the keyway, but learned after the fact that this is not so. Perhaps this is a condition that developed as random suppliers and repro shafts were later produced, but regardless, I have 2 shafts that are not identical in this respect.

I later learned that I did not need the cotter access hole in the hub....just bend the cotter pin in an arc, and feed it in.

Regards,
Scott

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:31 pm

I have reached a critical point on the restoration of the 09 as I completed the upholstery and that was the last item which required new materials. I used the original (1955?) seat covering which were leather over foam and horse hair. I had to use new trim and upholstery nail and new leather on the doors. All that is now completed.
FB4AC4B5-A5D7-410A-98BA-6F08E577F9A7.jpeg
1909 Completed front seats
F4F39B92-8D42-4720-8028-A2A3B36AE4B9.jpeg
RH door and rear seat
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LH door and rear seat
Eagle eyed viewers might notice that the rear seat bottom doesn’t sit correctly, yet another job for the “to be done” TBD list, not sure quite why it doesn’t sit correctly.
Other tasks on the TBD list are the E brake lever doesn’t latch and the reverse needs adjustment.
6191459B-8F28-4C7E-ACA5-AED7D0EEF18A.jpeg
E brake lever
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Reverse adjustment nut
How does one get a wrench to adjust the 11/16” nut into that tiny gap? My guess is a ring wrench ground down to a minimum might work.
Other items include the gas line, comutator wiring, tail lamp mounting, re-installing the fenders and running boards, painting and installing the new wheels and getting the motor to run in this chassis. The engine shouldn’t be too difficult as I did have it running in the test stand about a year ago.
Reality returns on Monday as a customer is coming in, then the Speedster Run and then a trip to Austin to watch the Formula 1 race at COTA in early November.
Last edited by TonyB on Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:48 pm

I forgot to add pictures of the door leather being cut. I used Heathers sewing room, first time it's been used since 2017
7FBF1CB5-83E4-49E0-B839-A9D9FB656452.jpeg
Door patterns
8C752E7D-EA61-4A08-86E8-11EE285F2863.jpeg
More cutting
I even used her scissors, that’s a first in 57 years😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by JTT3 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:53 pm

Tony looking very nice I am so happy for you. The sewing room & scissors, bittersweet.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by scott rosenthal » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:33 am

Hello Tony:
Is there a board reinforcement material that is used under the leather for your door upholstery? I have seen known reupholstered examples both with and without this reinforcement, but not an original that I am aware. I wonder if maybe the board may have been used when the rear door had a "glove compartment" where this cutout opening might otherwise weeken the assembly.
Regards,
Scott

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:48 am

I used cardboard under the door leather. A close friend had a large sheet about 0.080” thick so I used that , cut to slightly smaller than the leather. I also painted the edges black so it would not be visible from the edge.
I tacked the cardboard in place, then used a little glue on the cardboard before placing the leather in position. Then I covered the edges with “P” shaped trim and upholstery nails at about 1 1/2” spacing.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by scott rosenthal » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:07 pm

Nice Job Tony....looks sharp.
Scott


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:06 pm

IMG_20191013_113939291-1632x918.jpg
Hi Tony, I've posted a photo of my Door on my 09 body. I'm not sure if all 1909 upholstery was the same, but mine has an x pattern on the top panel. It doesn't have any backing on the top or bottom, they just nailed the leather right to the wood. The top and bottom were sewn together with round cording in between. It would be easy to ad the x embossing with a strait edge and a small leather tool. It looks like that's how it was done originally. If you decide to go that route, I can give you the dimensions.

Hope this helps,
Michael Paul


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Such a fine job you are doing with this car! I love to see your updates.

I use whatever scissors I want to. But,I treat all scissors better than either my wife or my mother ever did. I have maybe ten pair, and strict personal rules for what each pair is used for! Some do the dirty work. The cooking pair only touch food or clean food packages. The other "kitchen" pair is used only for basically good, but not necessarily clean work inside the house. The "sewing" pair only sewing needs in the house. There are two "nice" pair that I saved from being thrown out in the garage for "garage or outside" good work. A nice old name brand black handled pair out in the shop that do only "good" shop projects, a similar looking cheap Chinese pair in the shop for "bad" shop work. A couple small decent pair in the shop for general cutting of strings and tape.

Scissors are tools,and tools should be treated with care and respect.

Thank you Tony B for the updates! I enjoy following along.


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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:00 pm

Hi Tony, I hope my info on the door panel wasn't taken the wrong way. you're doing a beautiful job on the restoration. Just trying to help out.

I do need to correct what I said earlier, after closer inspection, the upper and lower panel are not sewn together. What they did was nail the upper leather piece on first, then with plain tacks, it was tacked 1" apart to the horizontal piece of wood in the door. Next they took a strip of leather and wrapped it around a piece of cording. Next with the flap pointing down , it was tacked on to cover the plain tacks used to secure the upper piece. Finally with the lower piece , it was tacked from the inside just below the cording, then folded down and finished with round head tacks.
The photo shows the lower piece how it was tacked from the inside. I was surprised to see they didn't have any backing strip, just plain tacks then folded it down.

Again, just trying to help.
Thanks Mike
IMG_20191013_142335168-918x1632.jpg

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Re: Resurrection of a 1909 Model T

Post by TonyB » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:23 am

No offense taken. I have seen several 1909 Model Ts over the years but I only have a couple of pictures of the door leather and only one has the light such that the cross pattern is visible.
501C3E18-AFE8-4B89-8853-7041CB87104E.jpeg
Cross pattern on door leather
When I first took the picture I couldn’t see the pattern but my eagle eyed friend John Pepe spotted it. Even this picture is not too clear, you may have to click on it to download the full size and then zoom in😊
Incidentally I had not realized it was made up of two separate pieces, mine is one piece with a length of plain trim across the middle. I had to rework the middle support a little as the wood was not at the same level as the outside of the door. This caused the cardboard to wrinkle, so I built the cross wood up a little with strips of veneer.
I wonder why they used two pieces?
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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