Engine pan hardware?

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Steve Jelf
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Engine pan hardware?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:45 pm

We don't need to get into a big whooptedoo about whether to use engine pans. I aim to do it. But in researching the mounting hardware I find some disagreement about what's the right hardware. I'm sure about the bolts: ¼-20 carriage bolts with about an inch of thread. But what about the nuts? Hex or square? What kind of washers, if any?
The inevitable often happens.
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Adam
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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by Adam » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:27 pm

Long skinny carriage bolts that go thru the hood shelf, frame rails, splash pan with a lock washer and square nut on the bottom.

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KWTownsend
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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by KWTownsend » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:58 pm

Steve-
Take a look here:
http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/1915/default.htm

P/N 3088 is engine pan bolt 09-12 uses 7 of them. 1/4" x 9/16" I believe they were 28 tpi and have square heads bolts drilled for cotter pins.
Yet used square nuts. (!)
engine pans bolts and nuts.jpg
P/N 3088B is engine pan and hood board bolt and nut '09-'15 1/4" x 3-1/4" (short) (2 req)
P/N 3088C is engine pan and hood board bolt and nut '09-'15 1/4" x 3-5/8" (size) (? req)

I wish I could be more help. Maybe someone has some pics of original "engine dust shields," bolts, and nuts.

: ^ )

Keith


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:20 pm

The long bolts that Adam mentions were a combination hood board and engine pan bolt, in a carriage bolt configuration, that began to be used about July of 1913. They came in "short" (3-1/4", used in front) and "long" (3-5/8", used in the rear) lengths. Until then, the (separate) hood board bolts were a slotted carriage bolt 1-5/16" long, and the seven 1/4" x 28 engine pan bolts were as shown in Keith's photo, and were 25/32" long.


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by Allan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:05 am

Our Canadian sourced cars had bolts as RV advised. The same bolts that hold the hood shelves on, hold the engine pans too. i don't know if this is universal or not, but the heads of these bolts are smaller than standard hardware store coach bolts, and the SQUARE nuts are somewhat larger.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by Original Smith » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:32 am

Here again, how are we supposed to supply and answer, when the year of the car is not given? Those items were changed over the years considerably. We all should agree that the engine side of the engine pans use the engine bolts. In many cases the engine pans have gotten the holes enlarged due to being replaced several times, and require a flat washer to hold them on. In 1913 alone the hood board bolts were changed twice! The first design is like a 1912, with a slotted head that is fastened under the top side of the frame. The second design is still slotted, but goes through to the bottom edge of the frame, and is held on by 1/4-20 square nuts, 1/2" across the flats. There are two different lengths of these on all years from March of 1913 until the end. The later T's use carriage bolts, with very small heads, much smaller than the hardware store variety, but still use the same 1/4-20 square nuts, 1/2" across the flats.


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:53 am

FWIW, the change in 1913 that Larry mentions took place right at the end of the model year, in late June/early July.

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:01 am

Yes, I should have specified 1915. Not telling the year is one of my pet peeves, so shame on me. :)
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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by Allan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:42 pm

Steve, some of us realised you had no T later than 1915, and the early stuff did not apply in your case. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Allan from down under.


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by tmagill » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:23 pm

Keith, what are the clamps in your picture for? Tim

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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by KWTownsend » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:15 am

The clamps are for acetylene headlamp gas lines.


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by tmagill » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:52 pm

Keith do you make them or have any for sale? I need one for a 1914. Thanks Tim

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KWTownsend
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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by KWTownsend » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:12 pm

No, I don't but they are not too difficult to make.
I don't remember the exact dimensions, but for my 1911 they are about 1/2" wide, and 1-3/4" long with a 1/4" loop in the end.

One link below has Rich Eagle's specifications. I recently learned that the photo I posted is his.

There is some more information here:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/540853.html
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1371823897
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1436287370

: ^ )


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Re: Engine pan hardware?

Post by tmagill » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks Keith for the info. Tim

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