AC brakes

[RGould1910]

I like to hear about the feasibility of using brake rods to the AC brakes in lieu of the cable set up. Im thinking about removing the parking brakes and having the rods from the handbrake go to the AC brakes. Any suggestions, recommendations, cautions, etc. appreciated.

[CudaMan]

I assume you have a set of the original period AC brakes that were set up to use a cable, like mine in the first picture below?

The "modern" AC brakes that were formerly available from Larry Sidmore were already designed to use rods, but the attached second picture from elsewhere in the forum shows someone looping a cable through the arm hole that can also accept a clevis from a rod setup.

[speedytinc]

I cant answer to the functionality of AC brakes, but, using R/M brakes, they fail when wet. (not to mention going backwards)
I would not lose the parking brake.

[CudaMan]

AC brakes lose their effectiveness when wet, like Rocky Mountain brakes or any external band brake.

The bands on AC brakes and original and early reproduction Rocky Mountain brakes are anchored at the rear, so they stop just as well going backwards as forwards, see the first picture below.

The bands on the currently available reproduction Rocky Mountain brakes are anchored near one end of the band. This makes them more effective going forward, but less effective going backwards. The second attached picture shows this setup.

[RGould1910]

My concern is whether rods from the hand brake levers will work. Do they pass under the running board brackets, radius rods etc without interference?. Can I use the Fords clevises to connect the rods to the brakes or is a short license of cable a better option? Etc.
Don Tyler has a set up where the handbrake lever activates both the parking and AC brakes but I'm thinking about removing the parking brakes and having the rods go only to the AC brakes. I do have oan original AC equalizer but the wheel is small and turns on a rather small rivet. It doesn't exactly foster confidence. Hence the decision to use rods.

[Fozz71]

I installed the AC brakes about 10 years ago, on a 1917 Roadster, using the rods and not the cables, I found them equally good forwards and backward (never in rain) but wasn't pleased with their stopping power- I mean I really had to stomp the pedal to get good grip to stop quickly. Just my two cents, I set it up using Larry's method in the kit, just FYI.

Thanks,
James Chochole

[speedytinc]

I installed the AC brakes about 10 years ago, on a 1917 Roadster, using the rods and not the cables, I found them equally good forwards and backward (never in rain) but wasn't pleased with their stopping power- I mean I really had to stomp the pedal to get good grip to stop quickly. Just my two cents, I set it up using Larry's method in the kit, just FYI.

Thanks,
James Chochole

I have a period outer brake system similar to the AC shown on a 14 roadster.
I have the transmission brake set to work WITH the aux brakes.
The bands are lined with McMaster Carr woven material.
I can lock em up anytime. (havent been wet yet)
FWIW they operate with cables.

[Mark Gregush]

Maybe back in the old days, hooking up the outside brakes *as parking brakes* might have been a "thing" (ya I know there are some that still want to promote it being done). I would never even entertain the thought of doing it that way. Got enough to do driving a T to need reaching down to grab the parking brake lever in a bind, also you are putting the car in neutral when you do it that way.
My opinion is the parking brakes should be used for parking and outside brakes/transmission brake for stopping.
I built something like what is shown in below link. The difference is I used a piece of flat plate with the ends bent at an angle to mount the rods on instead of the rod and levers.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1384711491
left part of my comment out see ** part.

[JvanMaanen]

Richard,

I have original AC brakes with a John Stoltz equalizer using rods on my 22 coupe and they work well. Brake pedal activates outside and if you really stop the transmission brake. Emergency/parking activates both inside and outside brakes on rear drums. Adjustment was a little tricky, but once set they seem to hold adjustment well.

On the set of reproduction AC from Larry on my 19 roadster, I again used a Stoltz equalizer, but found it easier to use cables. Both cars have Ruckstell with left hand shifter, so found routing to the AC brakes easier with the equalizer that moved things out from the center, vs the original AC setup.

Van

[RGould1910]

That's a nice looking coupe Jim. Do you have a photo you wouldn't mind posting of the John Stoltz equalizer? BTW thank you to all who've responded. I appreciate the input.

[JvanMaanen]

Richard,

the equalizer is very similar to the rocky mountain. The equalizer mounts on the control shaft and like rocky mountains is activated by brake pedal or the emergency brake lever. It is cut from steel plate rather than cast, so I cleaned it up some with a grinder. These are original ac brakes, so I added some helper return springs since I was using rods. It was a tight fit because of the hasslers and the rods run through anti rattlers keep all the side to side travel out

[Craig Leach]

Hi Richard,
I have some what i think are home made A-C brakes on my speedster. A freind gave them to me because they didn't work because they where
hooked up to the hand brake. So when he pulled back on the hand brake he lost the use of engine compression to help slow the car. I built a
equalizer that is a rod coming off the left frame rail that a rod from the brake peddle connects to like the original A-C brake used but gives me
a leverage advantage. I first set it up using Chebby park brake cables. Then made a triangle equalizer & added rods. ( did not notice any
inprovement) I do not have stock park brakes on my firetruck with R-M brakes & have had a harrowing experiance because of that. As some
know getting R-M brakes to work with stock park brakes is not fun. I do like the A-C brakes but I'm working on a better set up because I like
to get the most out of my speedster. I personaly would do everything I could to retain the stock park brake even though the A-C brakes work
as well in revearse as they do forward. JMHO
Craig.

[JvanMaanen]

RE my last post about cleaning up John's equalizer. I did not mean to imply that other than cosmetic reasons I did this. They are stout and I have been satisfied with them. I will look at the rocky mountains on my 15 touring and see what the spread from center is on the connection points for the brake cables or rods. I had more of a clearance/interference problem on my 19 with Larry's repo brakes between the emergency brake rods, wishbones, and connection to the equalizer for the AC brakes and used cables. On the 22 the rods to the original AC went nicely from the equalizer through anti rattlers and to the brakes. There are quite a few very minor differences between the original and reproduction brakes, or at least the version of originals I have. The differences are especially noticeable in clearance between brake mounts and the other mounts/backing plates etc to the rear end. The repos had much less room and it took a bit to get them aligned properly, especially they wanted to contact the brake drums when the hubs were snugged up. A set of axle shims cleared this up, but really did not need shims other than for this. This may be just to the particulars of my 19 and the ruckstell installed in it and the 19 is still a work in progress. I can try to get any specific pictures for you, but as you see my photographic skills are limited.

Van

[namdc3]

Here’s an original A-C setup that uses rods. Note that it still uses an equalizer, which imho is better than rod setups that do not.