New guy picking up my ‘24 coupe soon. Lighting questions

[WillyR]

Hello all!

I’m fortunate enough to have fallen in with a knowledgeable local club last year and in a few weeks I’ll be picking up a meticulously refurbished 1924 coupe.

I do have rocky mountain brakes, and a ruckstell will be acquired soon.

I do intend to drive her often and would like some advice on how to proceed.

I want to make some practical changes but preserve her as original as possible.


6v system with the tremblers

1) I already have plans for 6v LED headlight bulbs running off the stock electrical system.

2) I want to install turn signals and stop lights. The question is, do I run a 12v system off a motorcycle battery or just tie in to the 6v system? (Langs has a complete 6v incandescent setup)

Either way I would eventually use led bulbs

3) for stoplights I would add second housing maybe? Or one larger central light? Open to ideas on this. Frame or trans cover switch at the pedal?

Thanks for all your input and suggestions!

[Moxie26]

LED bulbs will run on a 6 volt system.. be sure to use the proper gauge cables for your battery connections, negative ground.

[John.Zibell]

If you switch to LED bulbs for the turn signals, they may not flash unless you add resistors to the line. I'd just stay with 6V incandescent bulbs so the flasher has the load required to operate.

[DanTreace]

On a '25 restore, added stop and tail lamps, keeping the 6v system.


Stop switch vendor type bar over the trans cover, contact pushed by the brake pedal.

Lamps used were trailer stop/tail, mounting was simple by forming angle brackets screwed to the wood rear body member, hanging the lamps low under the body but very well seen. Changed bulbs from 12v to 6v 1154 bulbs. Turn single control, 6v, fitted to the steering column, the old school type, painted the chrome finish black for Model T use.

[WayneJ]

You can use a filament bulb for front turn signals, and led for rear brake, stop light, and turn signals. This way you dont need resistors. The front filament bulbs will provide enough resistance for the signals. The rear lights are used the most and leds in the rear will be brighter and less current draw.

[Mike Silbert]

While I love LED lights they are not without weakness. I have been using them for probably 15 years now. They are bright, consume very little electricity and last a very long time. The only failures I have had are ones that fell to pieces.
When choosing bulbs besides voltage and polarity make sure to find ones that point the light in the correct direction so it can be seen. There are many options so pick carefully.

Brake and running lights - Be seen as much as possible. I add more lights to be seen but try to not have them too distracting from the car itself. This is a very opinionated decision. The options for 6 volt lamps is much more limited than 12 volt so typically I add a 12 volt battery and magneto charging circuit. I make my own in several versions since they are no longer available retail.

Brake light switches - I prefer to use the driveshaft flange version. It is another no longer available Fun Projects item so I make my own. I dont like removing the switch to adjust the bands. The frame and starter mount styles are not sturdy enough for me.

Led Flasher - They make and sell LED flashers for 6 and 12 volts. They even make a 6 volt positive ground version. Buy the flasher for your application and it just works. No resistors needed with the correct flasher.
https://www.ledlight.com/flasher-cf13-6 ... -watt.aspx

Turn Signal Switch - Most use the add on switch. There is a nice hidden turn signal switch available from Ron's Machine. I like to make add ons disappear so I design and build a system myself.

What you do is up to you and how you want it to look and work. I am picky so I build my own.

[Norman Kling]

I would keep it 6 volt. If you choose to use 12 volts you will also need to replace the generator and starter which are quite expensive. Some have used alternators, but they don't look period correct and also were made to run on a pulley with a fan to cool the unit. When they use a gear to mount to the timing gear, many times the gear comes off. Also they tend to run hot because no fan in the unit. On tours, I have seen more cars break down when the alternator has problems than when the generator has problems, especially if y our magneto works, you can start the engine many times on one battery charge and immediately switch to magneto. I don't usually drive after dark unless we are staying at a hotel in a well lighted area and just drive a short distance to get something to eat in the evening. Now that I am old and my wife uses oxygen 24 hours a day and the oxygen generator doesn't charge on 6 volts but has enough batteries for it to run 9 or 10 hours, we take mostly local parades or local tours for the day. Fun to get old! Just turned 89 last week.
Norm

[WillyR]

Thanks, ALL!

I am buying this particular car because it is still quite original. I want to find all the quirks myself and make changes based on frustration with original components, after being left on the side of the road....

A distributor and an alternator weren't on my list of things get on my first T, I wanted as original as possible. -BUT- I want to be as visible as possible as other drivers look up from their phones while driving...

Ruckstell, Rocky Mountain brakes, and better lighting are the only things on my list of things to do...

I'm not sure the reputation Langs has, but they have a kit complete 6v turn signal kit with the clamp on signal switch, incadesant bulbs and 4 bullet lights. I figured this would give me all the parts I need to get started. I would do the LED conversion at a later date...

I would also pick up the trans cover brake light switch.

I already have the correct LED headlight bulbs in my amazon cart

[WillyR]

You can use a filament bulb for front turn signals, and led for rear brake, stop light, and turn signals. This way you dont need resistors. The front filament bulbs will provide enough resistance for the signals. The rear lights are used the most and leds in the rear will be brighter and less current draw.

That's a good idea, would I need an LED specific flasher, or with this work with the incandescent flasher?

I have a modern car to try this on first... ('65)

[WillyR]

I did place my lang's order, I called and they were quite helpful.

the 6v kit is single filament but the rear can be wired as a brake light through the column mount switch doo-hickey.

I did also get the transmission cover mount brake light switch, and the adapter thingie they sell to mount the switch to the column.

That should get me started, and I'll look at maybe adding a second running light to the rear, -OR- just a removable battery powered bicycle flasher for rare nighttime use.

I may have saved a couple $$ if I pieced the kit together myself, but I'll pay for convenience, and support somebunny crazy enough to specialize in obsolete parts....

[WillyR]

AND since it looks like y'all have influenced my decision, and I'll be keeping all the lighting confined to the 6v system..


I am going to try a suction cup mount phone holder for my phone/gps/speedometer/8track, and I'm buying one of those phone+ sized battery packs to use for charging my phone.....

I'll see it the suction cup will stay without falling off, and if not I can mount it unobtrusively...

I'm gonna be all modern and $#!%..

[WayneJ]

If you have incandescent bulbs in front turn signals and leds for rear tail lights and turn signals, you can use a standard incandescent flasher. The front inandescent bulbs will provide enough resistance for the flasher. This is what I use in my 1918 and 1915 Model Ts.

BTW, nice looking coupe!!

[WillyR]

If you have incandescent bulbs in front turn signals and leds for rear tail lights and turn signals, you can use a standard incandescent flasher. The front inandescent bulbs will provide enough resistance for the flasher. This is what I use in my 1918 and 1915 Model Ts.

20241028_132314.jpg

BTW, nice looking coupe!!

That's awesome to hear, I'll get the incandescents wired up from the lang's kit, and take my time researching the LED bulbs for my 65 for and my 77 jeep, and my T.

Damn, your is a beauty too, I almost wanted a roadster or a pickup for my fist T, but this one is too perfect to pass up... the guy I'm getting it from is extremely meticulous, and it's beyond a museum piece.... IT's near showroom perfect.

[varmint]

Hi,
So, thermal flashers only work with incandescent bulbs.
Electronic flashers work with both.
You can get either thermal or electronic in 12v or 6v.

I recommend that you stay with the bayonet style bulb socket. When the LED bulb burns out, you just switch the bulb, not the entire assembly and you can switch between LED or incandescent.

[WillyR]

Hi,
So, thermal flashers only work with incandescent bulbs.
Electronic flashers work with both.
You can get either thermal or electronic in 12v or 6v.

I recommend that you stay with the bayonet style bulb socket. When the LED bulb burns out, you just switch the bulb, not the entire assembly and you can switch between LED or incandescent.

OK, that's good to know, I think my jeep already has an electronic flasher, the 65 no, I'll see what the 6v kit comes with.

I did intend to use the standard bulb sockets with the fancy new LED bulbs.

[WillyR]

My model t club had a work day at the (former) president’s howse…

My son and I got to work on installing a ruckstell in one of the members coupe’s and we got to bounce between that and checking a mess of crankshafts-AND- some millwork on a couple of early blocks.

I had just gotten shipping notification on my Langs order and when I got home my turn signals were here, along with my LED headlight bulbs….

So I have parts for the car I don’t have yet…

[varmint]

Did your brake light switch come with any instructions?
I know it mounts to the Bendix cover but the "push the pin in" design does not make sense to me.

[WillyR]

Did your brake light switch come with any instructions?
I know it mounts to the Bendix cover but the "push the pin in" design does not make sense to me.

It did come with instructions, and a cursory glance it seemed to be easy enuff.

I did find out that the car does already have brake lights so it already has a switch installed, but I’m not sure which type it has.

I do believe there are 3 types of switches the bendix, the trans cover, and one other.

I did find out that if I want to run in the Montana 500 I will need to change the head and the rear axle.

So I will install the ruckstell on the floating hub rear and build a second for the race without the two speed.

[speedytinc]

You dont necessarily need to change the axle to run the 500.
A RuX with stock gears without being shift-able is OK.

[WillyR]

You dont necessarily need to change the axle to run the 500.
A RuX with stock gears without being shift-able is OK.

It's the floating hubs that are a no-no, I'll be there this June as a volunteer, but I hope to compete next year.

If the current rear end was fine for the competition, I could just lock out the ruckstell, that I don’t have yet.

I should be able to build a second rear end just for the competition without too much expense.... it's only money......

If I didn’t need a ruckstell, a second rear end, and a new head, I might have been in a financial state to compete this year…

[WillyR]

I bought some LED bulbs for my new turn signal/stop lights, testing with a 7volt battery the incadescent were a lot brighter.

These were the press in type bulbs, I'll post a full report when I get my car...

I'm also going to buy the logo headlight bulbs from Langs....

[Allan]

You can use a pair of standard model T tail lights for brake lights as well. Just fit dual pin headlight sockets in the tail lights instead of the single pin ones that come in the tail lights.
There are arguments for making indicators, brake lights etc as unobtrusive as possible. I go a different route. They go on obvious additional brackets in obvious positions. That way they are recognised as safety add-ons and they are obvious when operating.

Allan from down under.

[WillyR]

You can use a pair of standard model T tail lights for brake lights as well. Just fit dual pin headlight sockets in the tail lights instead of the single pin ones that come in the tail lights.
There are arguments for making indicators, brake lights etc as unobtrusive as possible. I go a different route. They go on obvious additional brackets in obvious positions. That way they are recognised as safety add-ons and they are obvious when operating.

Allan from down under.

I did get a chance to go over the veekle a couple weekends ago and it does already have brake lights with the starter mounted switch. So I have a spare trans cover switch, which is a good excuse to start looking for another T.

I want to be as visible as possible. I’m fortunate to have factory or dealer mounted bumpers and I’ll find a way to mount them as obtrusively as possible.

[Allan]

These are the lights on the back of my wide body roadster. The lights in the spare tyre are standard T issue, but fitted with double contact sockets so they serve as brake and tail lights

The small anodised lights next to the indicator lights are rechargeable leds. They screw off and plug in via a USB cord. By pressing the red lens they switch to red. Press again and the y flash red. They are quite noticeable by day and brilliant at night. They were made to fasten to a bicycle seat stem with a rubber band but I fixed them permanently

Allan from downunder.

[WillyR]

These are the lights on the back of my wide body roadster. The lights in the spare tyre are standard T issue, but fitted with double contact sockets so they serve as brake and tail lights
20250320_163228.jpg

The small anodised lights next to the indicator lights are rechargeable leds. They screw off and plug in via a USB cord. By pressing the red lens they switch to red. Press again and the y flash red. They are quite noticeable by day and brilliant at night. They were made to fasten to a bicycle seat stem with a rubber band but I fixed them permanently
20250320_163318.jpg
Allan from downunder.

That looks nice, I was considering getting a bike flasher and mounting it at the back of the cab under the rear window.

I was even thinking of making dismountable bars front and rear that could be stowed in the trunk for car shows... seems like too much work... but we shall see...

keeping period correct is fine and dandy, but I'd prefer to be seen as peeples are looking up from texting while driving...

[Marshall V. Daut]

Not to be a Debbie Downer on such a nice Coupe, but are you sure it's a 1924 and not a 1925 model? I ask because of the 21" wheels, which became optional only on 1925 Model T's later in 1925 after their introduction, as I recall. Sure, someone could have exchanged 30" wheels for these 21" wheels, possibly the restorer. The difference between the two sizes when looking at the car is subtle, but noticeable to me. That's the first thing that jumps out at me when I view cars of this 1924-1925 vintage. Photos of the front and rear fender rib lines will help determine the year: On 1924 T front fenders, the line curved back as it ran parallel to the side splash apron. On 1925's, it curved under the splash apron so that part of the curve disappears. Of course, when you're talking millions of Model T's built in various plants and subject to parts availability on the assembly line, you're going to get cross-overs. Did all 1924 Model T's have this exposed front fender curve? Probably not. Did all 1925 Model T's have the disappearing curve on the front fender, the so-called "commercial" fender? Also probably not. But odds are that if your car has the accepted 1924 fenders, but 21" wheels, it probably is a 1924 Model T with post-1924 21" wheels. Can you post such photos for us to further nit-pick?
Still, a nice car and congratulations on acquiring it. Coupes are my favorite Model T body style, my first Model T ever being a 1926 Coupe. By the way, I own a 1924 Coupe.
Marshall

[WillyR]

Not to be a Debbie Downer on such a nice Coupe, but are you sure it's a 1924 and not a 1925 model? I ask because of the 21" wheels, which became optional only on 1925 Model T's later in 1925 after their introduction, as I recall. Sure, someone could have exchanged 30" wheels for these 21" wheels, possibly the restorer. The difference between the two sizes when looking at the car is subtle, but noticeable to me. That's the first thing that jumps out at me when I view cars of this 1924-1925 vintage. Photos of the front and rear fender rib lines will help determine the year: On 1924 T front fenders, the line curved back as it ran parallel to the side splash apron. On 1925's, it curved under the splash apron so that part of the curve disappears. Of course, when you're talking millions of Model T's built in various plants and subject to parts availability on the assembly line, you're going to get cross-overs. Did all 1924 Model T's have this exposed front fender curve? Probably not. Did all 1925 Model T's have the disappearing curve on the front fender, the so-called "commercial" fender? Also probably not. But odds are that if your car has the accepted 1924 fenders, but 21" wheels, it probably is a 1924 Model T with post-1924 21" wheels. Can you post such photos for us to further nit-pick?
Still, a nice car and congratulations on acquiring it. Coupes are my favorite Model T body style, my first Model T ever being a 1926 Coupe. By the way, I own a 1924 Coupe.
Marshall

There is a lot of documentation that I'll be getting with the car, and I'll be taking a metric buttload of pictures when I get her home....

I do believe there is a picture from the original owners in the mix, so that could be used to verify a few things.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Great! That will give us old guys new fat to chew on. 'Looking forward to seeing more photos of that terrific T Coupe of yours!
Marshall

[WillyR]

I'm a week to 10 days away..... I may have to wait a couple weeks to get it registered, as I'm scraping the bottom of the piggy bank....

it has a slapper/flapper timer...

I already have some seat belts to install, I was reading up on mounting them to the body and not the frame....

[Steve Jelf]

1924 or 1925? When you have the car, post photos of the door (with hinges showing clearly), and the hand brake quadrant.

[WillyR]

1924 or 1925? When you have the car, post photos of the door (with hinges showing clearly), and the hand brake quadrant.

noted, there is something special about the radiator too........

[Jack Putnam, in Ohio]

Your cell phone charges on 5 volts. The phone charger cord reduces the input voltage wether it is 6 or 12 volts.
I use a cigarette lighter socket mounted discretely that my phone charger cord plugs into, it is 6 volt. Works great.

[WillyR]

Your cell phone charges on 5 volts. The phone charger cord reduces the input voltage wether it is 6 or 12 volts.
I use a cigarette lighter socket mounted discretely that my phone charger cord plugs into, it is 6 volt. Works great.

I saw a video about the 5 volt requirement, I'll likely end up doing that. I want to be as unobtrusive as I can.

I think the video was the paul shinn guy, even though he drives those fancy modern veekles he has good videos.

I also have a battery bank I'll keep in the emergency kit.

There is a place selling an $89 "converter" for 6v cars, they didn't fool me for a second.

I tested sending an electronical deposit to the seller yesterday, and it seems to have worked, so next week the balance of the monies should be on the way! and I may be driving my new car home weekend after next..

[WillyR]

1924 or 1925? When you have the car, post photos of the door (with hinges showing clearly), and the hand brake quadrant.

I may very well be driving her home on Saturday…

She’s a November 1924 build, and the initial registration was in 1926.

I’m getting an entire binder full of pictures and paperworkz…


I will likely start a new thread with all the info…

[WillyR]

I just wired away the money!

I think I'm coming down with something.... I may have to call in tomorrow... if the wire clears.....

[Mark Wing - NM]

I just saw this thread yesterday and I thought I'd chime in as I've owned the car for over 15 years and can answer some of the questions that people have speculated about. The engine 10873XXX is original to the car and has a November 24, 1924 build date - so it's definitely a 1925 model year coupe. The car was owned by the same family for around 75 years and has always had 21" balloon tires. The bumpers were most likely added by the dealership in Texas that originally sold the car. Historical photos show that they were installed well before the car's cosmetic restoration in the 1980's. During my engine/transmission/differential rebuilding process in 2009/2010, we found the coupe still had its original cast iron pistons. The floating hubs, Timken-style driveshaft bearing, Rocky Mountain brakes, and Z Head were added at that time. It already has a period accessory glass stop light with the word "STOP" that was on the car when I acquired it in 2009. It also had the purple headlight lenses seen in the first picture posted, but I removed them in favor of clear lenses to aid driving in low light conditions. On the rare occasions when I drove in the dark, I used red bicycle lights attached with plastic ties to the ends of the rear bumpers.

The coupe was my first Model T and it is a wonderful car, but it hasn't been driven very much in the last 7 years since I restored a January 1925 touring car. I rebuilt the touring with a Ruckstell, flat tube radiator, SCAT crankshaft, 280 camshaft, Z Head, I-Timer, and disc brakes for regular club activities and tours. I'm also in the process of restoring 5 brass-era Model T's right now. They are in addition to an already restored open-valve 1911 (engine no. 40XXX) touring car and a 1912 Metz 22. I need the space in my warehouse/workshop for the new projects. WillyR recently joined the Tin Lizzies of Albuquerque and we are very happy have him as an active and enthusiastic member!

[WillyR]

Got the paperwerkz today and worked on installing the turn signals and familiarizing myself with my first t today…


More details later..

[WayneJ]

Congradulations! You have a great car! Enjoy!

[WillyR]

I have the turn signals wired up.

The brake light through the new lights are wired to the supplemental “stop” lense.

Hazards work great too.

I have the LED bulbs for the new system and I may see how those work after dark.


The LED headlight bulbs I previously bought thru the amazons, require some changes to the wiring harness so I may just wait for the plug in lights (logolites) to get back in stock from Langs.

I had the front windshield down and the door side windows rolled down and my bud vase flowere blew all over and I lost a stem or two out the window…


Maybe it’s a sign to pick some new ones. Maybe a few rose buds?

[varmint]

Very nice, congrats.

[WillyR]

I tried one led, in the rear and it wasn't very bright, must need resistors... I'll look up what they need and maybe use them for future spares.

When I compared them off the car, to the incandescent using a 9v battery, the incandescent were brighter, but the LED were even dimmer on the car....

that experiment is essentially over....

Drove to work this morning in the dark, I took some alternate streets to avoid some busy hills and it was uneventful.

I should have close to or over 200 miles by next weekend.

I downloaded a speedometer app that has a trip meter, but discovered after I got to work I had to activate the trip meter....

next goal is to get a speeding ticket....


remember to switch to magneto.....

I do need to add a piece of wood to the rear view mirror, to drop it lower, I'm not getting a good rear view, the side view on the upper door hinge seems to be adequate, and as good as it's gonna get.