1918 - 1927 Starter Troubleshooting and Rebuild

[mireland]

Hey team, I'm stuck again . For those that dont know, i am the 3rd generation owner of a 1926 Model T. In 1961, my grandpa bought it from the son of the original owner. I inherited this 26 T Touring in October and have been learning a lot. My Dad told me that when he dies that this forum is the best source of information around.

In a previous thread I needed help with the bendix gear. Before that post I had no idea and thought that bendix and various parts and the starter was overwhelming....Well, now I think I understand all the back-end (under the floor boards side) of the starter process... Got it back together and went to start it...Turned over a few times and just as it sputtered and probably needed just one more try to fire.....the starter seemed to seize...

After a few great videos I have found that my 17 year old and I are now deep in to rebuilding the starter on the bench.

Below I will put in some pics. But I am looking for part number 5106. What is it called? how to get it? This ring is made of metal but it is almost evaporated.

The insulators and communicators seem to have expected resistance. The fabric on the wires coming from the starter fields is basically gone. Should I add fabric or electrical tape? I really dont think I need to replace the starter fields ($120) as it seems the fabric wire insulation is the only thing wrong. Thoughts?

Should the inside of the starter be this dirty? Is this a sign that the rear bushing need replaced?

I suspect some of you would say since I have it taken this far apart, might as well rebuild the entire thing back to new. But I am interested if I should do that or just test and replace those things that are needing it.

How do I find out what part 5106 is and where to buy a new one?

[Allan]

5106 is the rear bushing, originally pot metal, as yours was. Replacements are bronze, or you can opt for a ball bearing race and a suitable spacer.

Allan from down under.

[mireland]

Cheers Mate.

Thanks for the quick response! I just found that on Langs and ordered it. I will also replace the brushes since I have this open. Any concerns of only replacing the brushes and this bushing (and the front and back cork gaskets (which was the initial intent of me doing this winter project)?

Specifically wondering if the cloth insulation around the wires from the field coils. Overall, it is 100 years old, but does not seem terribly beat up. I assume this looks normal? Im not opposed to doing this first and then later rebuilding it completely...but looking for insight to how much to rebuild now vs later...

[AdminJeff]

Based on what a PITA it is to remove the starter in the first place, the more you can do now, the fewer problems you'll have going forward.
The cloth on the field coil leads is important to be in good condition. If not then you risk those leads shorting out. I've seen some folks use electrical tape. Not a good idea bc oil gets into the starter and the tape just comes undone. I've used heat shrink tubing in the past with good success. It needs to be large enough to pass the spade connectors through though and shrink enough to cover the wire. The cloth on the fields themselves is almost always not salvagable, so don't remove them and you might be ok. I *always* use new field coils on my rebuilds so I don't have issues in the future. Also, don't use corrosive sprays to remove grease. They eat away insulation on wiring, commutators, etc.

On a side note, the recent price hikes for new field coils has pushed me over the edge to have them made like so many of the other starter & generator parts I now make. I expect to have 500 of them in a month or so along with brushes, brush plates, etc. The samples I've received so far work really well but have a few problems to sort out. They will be under $50 and come with the post preinstalled along with new insulators, washers, nuts, etc. More soon...

[TMiller6]

I worked on my starters in January. I used this tubing on the leads. Cost was $5.85

I had to curl the blades on the terminals slightly to slide it onto the wire and straighten them after heating.

[TMiller6]

To Jeff:

As one who just purchased generator fields, I am happy to hear you’re going to offer our hobby a better product. Thanks for making these parts.

[Moxie26]

Your commutator brushes and the pictures look fine to me... They do not wear like generator brushes... The starter is only used to start whereas the generator always runs with the engine...... Not a cheap restoration move, but keep those brushes to conform to your starter. ..... Something to consider.

[Steve Jelf]

I'm not answering your questions because other folks are handling that job. I'm going back before any questions to point out that a great Model T feature is the vast store of information available to all of us. The more references you have, the better off you are. I expect you already have some, but there are more. This page lists some that we all should have, plus some that are more than basic:

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

[Ron Patterson]

I have rebuilt hundreds of Model T starters and am qualified to comment. (if you want to do this the correct way?)
Thanks for the great photos.
Original Ford part number 5106 Starter Brushcap Bushing was poured babbitt and factory machined to fit. Part suppliers offer two replacement options; the bronze bushing is a poor chice because it requires special tooling for fit not normally own by average hobbyist and all has the problems the original part had with poor axial wear capabilities. The prelubricated ball bearing is far superior, no special tools needed to install,no alignmentaxial werar issues and because of the starters low duty cycle will last another hundred years.
Contrary to advice herein; Do not reuse used starter brushes. Worn brushes will only cause trouble later. New brushes MUST be custom fit to the refinished commutator. If you do not know how to do this give me a call, it is simple, you can do it and MANDITORY.
Here are the things you MUST do to get a quality job.
Avail yourself of the offer for anew field winding advice. Ask him intall it inside your starter case. (there is a reason I recommend the later).
Clean the armature commutator and segments. (there is no need to undercut the commutator segments on a starter commitator) Test the commutator/windings with a growler (special tools). Straighten the 16 inch long shaft. Turn and finish the commutator (lathe required). Need advice/help, give me a call.
Remove and test the brushplate. The faults occur where you cannot see them. Need adviceNeed advice/help, give me a call./help, give me a call.
Remove, replace the Mounting Bracket main bushing, add oil seal and align ream bushing. Special tools required. Need advice/help, give me a call.
Check the mounting bracket for being bent. The fix is easily attainable. Need advice/help, give me a call.
Good luck.
I am usually in my shop rebuilding coils every day 11AM-4PM EST.
Ron Patterson
two hundred thirtyone-threehundredfortyeight-fivethousandfortyeight